Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[FrostedGlass]

IMO, any and most Crime scene pictures would be horrific and scary.
Especially ones of 2 young girls.

Following trial cases and in interviews afterwards, the jurors saying how the autopsies and how kids are found are traumatic and scary.

That doesn't have anything to do with Odism --

Have you seen all of the crime scene photos?

Lebrato seemed to be pretty level-headed; not someone who would conjure up "scary" stuff. Whatever he saw or read apparently left a negative impression on him.

As always... MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Watching MS and hear that Andy Baldwin left a message on Lauren Crow of The Throth. Interesting.

The Delphi Murders: A Heathen for the Defense? An Interview with Troth President Lauren Crow

Richard Allen's defense team has crafted an alternate theory centered around an alleged cult of "Odinists" who killed Liberty German and Abigail Williams as...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Titled A Heathen for the Defense.

He left that message on April 11th. Weeks before they were to go to trial. Grasping at straws.
Sounded as if he was going to share crime scene photos with her if she signed a NDA. All in hopes to her to testify to the appearance of runes at the from scene. Jmo
I am willing to bet dollars for donuts those “rune-like” crime scene photos were taken after the processing of the crime scene had occurred and a layer of sticks had been removed. Most likely 9 of 1000’s of pictures that just happen to appear rune like.
All my opinion

 

[FrostedGlass]

Regarding the money spent on defense of RA vs the money spent on the P.

I can only imagine what the grand total of this murder case will be. How much money was spent prior to RA's arrest? The LE man-hours alone must have been sky-high; I've never seen an estimate of those. All the state-funded services provided to the P are (probably) at no cost to his office but they aren't free.

The good thing about the money spent by defense is 40% of that will be refunded by The Indiana Public Defender Commission.

Will the Delphi double murder case cost Carroll County more than $2 million?

Richard Allen is charged with the 2017 double murders of teenagers Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.

www.wthr.com

This article has some really enlightening information about trial costs from the Oberhansley case.

MSN

Carroll County officials have largely declined to comment about the case, but Circuit Court Judge Vickie Carmichael in Clark County said the hefty cost is not surprising.

In 2020, Carmichael presided over another high-profile trial involving a man who killed his ex-girlfriend and ate parts of her body.

The cost of hotel rooms alone ― one for each of the 12 jurors and four alternates ― drove up the cost quickly, Carmichael said. Jurors' meals either had to be catered or court staff took them to restaurants. And because they didn't have access to their phones and other devices for two weeks, court staff took them on weekend field trips to keep them occupied. They went to the Louisville Zoo, Derby Dinner Playhouse and Churchill Downs horse racing complex. They visited a cave and a winery, too.

The cost to the county, including expenses during the first trial that ended in a mistrial in 2019, was a little over $1 million, Carmichael said. That number does not include salaries of court staff and sheriff's deputies who had to oversee the jurors 24/7, as well as expenses by the prosecutors and defense attorneys.

The same type of expenses are likely to be incurred in the Delphi case.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Watching MS and hear that Andy Baldwin left a message on Lauren Crow of The Throth. Interesting.

The Delphi Murders: A Heathen for the Defense? An Interview with Troth President Lauren Crow

Richard Allen's defense team has crafted an alternate theory centered around an alleged cult of "Odinists" who killed Liberty German and Abigail Williams as...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Titled A Heathen for the Defense.

Wait… is this typical defense discovery action? What about the gag order?

 

[Spartygirl]

Have you seen all of the crime scene photos?

Lebrato seemed to be pretty level-headed; not someone who would conjure up "scary" stuff. Whatever he saw or read apparently left a negative impression on him.

As always... MOO

No, I have not

But like I said, IMO--any photos of any murder crime scene would be horrific and scary for anybody to see.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Watching MS and hear that Andy Baldwin left a message on Lauren Crow of The Throth. Interesting.

The Delphi Murders: A Heathen for the Defense? An Interview with Troth President Lauren Crow

Richard Allen's defense team has crafted an alternate theory centered around an alleged cult of "Odinists" who killed Liberty German and Abigail Williams as...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Titled A Heathen for the Defense.

Oh my, if that is AB blabbering that long as heck voicemail message, it's way too much information. Who does that? Leave your name and number dude. It's at the 22:00 minute mark btw.

It sounds like the Defense is really desperate to try and get a witness away from the Odin angle and directing the attention on the heathen, white supremacy crowd now??

One more example of how unprofessional this Defense is.

JMO

 

[AugustWest]

Wait… is this typical defense discovery action? What about the gag order?

@steeltowngirl

Here's the exact language of the order:

"The Court issues an order granting the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication in whole, pending hearing which the Court has scheduled for January 13, 2023 at 10:00 am in the Carroll Circuit Court. Violations of this Order are punishable as Contempt of Court and subject the violator to a fine and/or incarceration." (emphasis mine)

Indiana (as most other states) often use the definitions of public communication found in the U.S. code (federal law). Public communication is defined in the U.S. code as follows:

Public communication — The term “public communication” means a communication by means of any broadcast, cable, or satellite communication, newspaper, magazine, outdoor advertising facility, mass mailing, or telephone bank to the general public, or any other form of general public political advertising.

52 U.S. Code § 30101 - Definitions

www.law.cornell.edu

To breach the gag order, one of the parties must communicate by the above means. Hope this helps!

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Baldwin's murder and attempted murder cases; pages 1-6. Those page # will change as cases are added, etc.
A look through all of his cases will show he's quite experienced on all levels.

Search by atty name

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

State of Indiana v. Alison K Davis (pg 1)
Case Number 02D05-2312-MR-000035
Court Allen Superior Court 5
Type MR - Murder
Filed 12/20/2023
Status 12/20/2023 , Pending (active)

State of Indiana v. Nicholas Robert Saunders (3)
Case Number 41D02-2208-F1-000027
Court Johnson Superior Court 2
Type F1 - Felony 1 = Attempted Murder
Filed 08/12/2022
Status 03/27/2024 , Decided

State of Indiana v. Caden Smith (Pg 4)
Case Number 49D20-2112-MR-036708
Court Marion Superior Court 20
Type MR - Murder
Filed 12/03/2021
Status 12/03/2021 , Pending (active)

State of Indiana v. James Beau Burkhart (pg5)
Case Number 89D01-2012-MR-000003
Court Wayne Superior Court 1
Type MR - Murder
Filed 12/21/2020
Status 05/10/2024 , Decided

State of Indiana v. Marcus Anthony Salatin (pg 6)
Case Number 41D02-2011-MR-000003
Court Johnson Superior Court 2
Type MR - Murder
Filed 11/05/2020
Status 05/14/2021 , Decided

Thanks for info, I wonder how many Nick has had, or his right hand man Shane (ex mayor)? Everyone has to start somewhere!

 

[girlhasnoname]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>


To me it's unprofessional for a Defense lawyer who doesn't even know the party to call and leave a long detailed message with all that information on a website's voicemail number. Leave your name and number and have the conversation in detail when they call back.

Now it's all over the internet for everybody to hear and listen to, I'm sure AB is mortified. But then again, probably not.

It's just another example of their constant missteps that show me RA should have stuck with S&L.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

To me it's unprofessional for a Defense lawyer who doesn't even know the party to call and leave a long detailed message with all that information on a website's voicemail number. Leave your name and number and have the conversation in detail when they call back.

Now it's all over the internet for everybody to hear and listen to, I'm sure AB is mortified. But then again, probably not.

It's just another example of their constant missteps that show me RA should have stuck with S&L.

JMO

Wow. I have not listened to it, but is this how potential witnesses are normally contacted in a murder trial? Not via subpoenas or court documented outreach?

I’m still concerned that the manner was a violation of the gag order. At best, seems VERY unprofessional.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

@steeltowngirl

Here's the exact language of the order:

"The Court issues an order granting the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication in whole, pending hearing which the Court has scheduled for January 13, 2023 at 10:00 am in the Carroll Circuit Court. Violations of this Order are punishable as Contempt of Court and subject the violator to a fine and/or incarceration." (emphasis mine)

Indiana (as most other states) often use the definitions of public communication found in the U.S. code (federal law). Public communication is defined in the U.S. code as follows:

Public communication — The term “public communication” means a communication by means of any broadcast, cable, or satellite communication, newspaper, magazine, outdoor advertising facility, mass mailing, or telephone bank to the general public, or any other form of general public political advertising.

52 U.S. Code § 30101 - Definitions

www.law.cornell.edu

To breach the gag order, one of the parties must communicate by the above means. Hope this helps!

Isn’t there a protective order that limited parties to discovery?
I thought this motion was as granted by JG in Late February 2023.
Prosecutor wants secrecy for Allen info - Carroll County Comet

 

[AugustWest]

Isn’t there a protective order that limited parties to discovery?
I thought this motion was as granted by JG in Late February 2023.
Prosecutor wants secrecy for Allen info - Carroll County Comet

Yes, there is a protective order. February 17, 2023.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thanks for info, I wonder how many Nick has had, or his right hand man Shane (ex mayor)? Everyone has to start somewhere!

You're welcome.

The Willie Smith murder case in Flora has 3 people involved. One took a plea deal, one went to jury trial and the third has been halted because Nick was granted an interlocutory appeal.

I'm not aware of any others but there could be some.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Yes, there is a protective order. February 17, 2023.

Wouldn’t providing non authorized parties access to discovery be directly against this order?
Seems AB thinks a person can just sign a NDA and have access to crime scene photos per his voicemail. Seems problematic IMO
Page 40-41
Sections 6&7

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863585/delphidocs.pdf

 

[AugustWest]

Wouldn’t providing non authorized parties access to discovery be directly against this order?
Seems AB thinks a person can just sign a NDA and have access to crime scene photos per his voicemail. Seems problematic IMO
Page 40-41
Sections 6&7

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863585/delphidocs.pdf

It wouldn't be because (5) of the protective order makes an exception.

"5. That the discovery material may be viewed only by parties, counsel and counsel's investigators and experts."

Expert witnesses are exempted.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It wouldn't be because (5) of the protective order makes an exception.

"5. That the discovery material may be viewed only by parties, counsel and counsel's investigators and experts."

Expert witnesses are exempted.

So then the defense can deem anyone as an expert?
Even someone that writes a newslwtter for a religion?

Seems pretty broad of an interpretation to me. The individual that was solicited even stated that she is not an expert.
JMO.

 

[AugustWest]

So then the defense can deem anyone as an expert?
Even someone that writes a newslwtter for a religion?

Seems pretty broad of an interpretation to me. The individual that was solicited even stated that she is not an expert.
JMO.

If she's an expert in a particular subject (heathenry or whatever) and they are seeking her opinion on that topic as such, then she would be an expert witness.

Also, defense may be seeking her to investigate; I have no idea.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

If she's an expert in a particular subject (heathenry or whatever) and they are seeking her opinion on that topic as such, then she would be an expert witness.

Also, defense may be seeking her to investigate; I have no idea.

Thanks for the information. I had no idea that legal parties had this amount of leeway in classifying who is deemed and expert or investigator.

 

[Willow Knight]

To me it's unprofessional for a Defense lawyer who doesn't even know the party to call and leave a long detailed message with all that information on a website's voicemail number. Leave your name and number and have the conversation in detail when they call back.

Now it's all over the internet for everybody to hear and listen to, I'm sure AB is mortified. But then again, probably not.

It's just another example of their constant missteps that show me RA should have stuck with S&L.

JMO

Or at the very, very least, know something about the 'potential' witness. Baldwin called and left message at The Troth, Lauren Crow is president of The Troth. Must say I am confused.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Lauren Crow, President and CEO of The Troth, expresses horror at the 2017 murder and the use of “Odinism” as a defense.

The “Odinism defense” employed by Richard Allen’s attorneys further proves that White Nationalism and bigotry are deadly poisons regardless of their theological framework.

Hate destroys the safety, peace, and stability of everyone and everything it touches. Those who feel this is a zero-sum game, where only their ideas, viewpoints, and beliefs can exist, are directly responsible for increased violence against religious, gender, sexual, and racial minorities.

Sadly, in this case, their hate could interfere with pursuing justice for Abigail and Liberty’s families.

"Odinist Ritual" Defense shows that enough is enough.

When is enough, enough? When will good Heathens, Asatruar, and Norse Pagans come together and say this is the last time we let racists speak for us? Now, preferably.

thetroth.org