Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[ClearAhead]

We should all hope if we ever find ourselves in a position of needing defense attorneys they don't just "move on." They are fighting for their client.

IMO MOO

A fight in the courtroom during RA’s criminal trial may never happen.

 

[TTF14]

A fight in the courtroom during RA’s criminal trial may never happen.

I don't know what this means.

 

[grannygates]

A fight in the courtroom during RA’s criminal trial may never happen.

Didn’t some YouTubers get in a fight during one of the hearings LOL

 

[ClearAhead]

I don't know what this means.

Sorry I wasn’t clear. The real fight for a client typically occurs in the courtroom, attempting for it to result in a not guilty verdict. This one doesn’t seem to be moving in that direction at all. After dismissing four repetitive Franks Motions, she’s going to agree to a violation of the 6th amendment? I think not. I predict where it’s going from here, her decisions will be appealed once again postponing the October trial.
MOO and JMO

They are fighting for their client.

IMO MOO

 

[SouthEnd]

Are you wondering whether he actually wants to plead guilty but his lawyers won’t let him?

I am wondering re: how much he is involved in his own defence. Is he too despondent to provide an alibi? Does he understand that he shouldn't stare at the victim's families? (Mentioned at MS podcast, Nancy Grace). Did he realise that he would still get free representation if B&R were dismissed? Lets assume he is not the one who committed the murders but he was the one who led the girls to the murderers (not saying I believe that, an example). Does he realise that he can negotiate a plea?

I am only wondering whether he fully understands his options. Because the legal system is obscure, and because of the MH guardship, the distance from his DT, the letter he wrote, the mentions of how despondent he was for months. IMO it is possible that he is just letting things play out at this point, trying to rock the boat as little as possible.

It is not only about guilt or innocence, it is about the process and how traumatising it is for all families involved.

 

[SouthEnd]

Didn’t some YouTubers get in a fight during one of the hearings LOL

Thank you for reminding me, this was a much needed moment of levity in this very dark situation.

Yes, one of the YouTubers never made it to the stand because of the 'scuffle'... Delphi Defense Witness ‘Booted from Courthouse’ at Pre-Trial Hearing

 

[SouthEnd]

This is like saying a schoolteacher's only work is done 9-3 in the classroom, to get their students to pass a test.

IMO MOo

I believe most people would agree the majority of the casework is done in preparation for the trial.

IMO though the time would be better spend getting up to date with all the evidence and the digital reports that according to the Sun article are still coming from the State experts, than filling motions that to even a layperson, have very very very very low chances of even being heard in court. IMO.

 

[TTF14]

I believe most people would agree the majority of the casework is done in preparation for the trial.

IMO though the time would be better spend getting up to date with all the evidence and the digital reports that according to the Sun article are still coming from the State experts, than filling motions that to even a layperson, have very very very very low chances of even being heard in court. IMO.

Brilliant attorneys not only preparing for this trial, but possible appeal.

 

[grannygates]

Brilliant attorneys not only preparing for this trial, but possible appeal.

It’s been amazing to have real lawyers read through the motions and explain the purpose and intention behind each one. I’ve learned so much from this case. It’s been a clinic!

 

[m00c0w]

The whole “but they said the case is ongoing!” thing will never fly. A case isn’t closed until there is a conviction (or there is extremely solid evidence a deceased individual did it), and RA hasn’t been convicted yet. It’s also entirely possible someone else helped RA in some way, which would still be inculpatory for RA and still in line with his felony murder charges. I don’t expect this last-ditch motion to succeed.

JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Brilliant attorneys not only preparing for this trial, but possible appeal.

Appealing based on ineffective counsel is certainly a strategy…

 

[Spartygirl]

I believe most people would agree the majority of the casework is done in preparation for the trial.

IMO though the time would be better spend getting up to date with all the evidence and the digital reports that according to the Sun article are still coming from the State experts, than filling motions that to even a layperson, have very very very very low chances of even being heard in court. IMO.

One would think, even as a Non-attorney, a Lay-person, that it would be time better spent.

But this D team is not doing that.

I wonder if RA even knows that his defense team are a bunch of circus clowns just throwing crap out there to see what sticks ???

 

[SouthEnd]

Appealing based on ineffective counsel is certainly a strategy…

In the MS Greenlee stated that because RA was the one who made the appeal to the Supreme Court to reinstate R&B, he pretty much gives up the right to appeal on basis of ineffective counsel. I am not a lawyer, but it sounded like the fact that RA had to sign that he understands about the leaks and he still wants them on, will make it much harder to appeal. (IMO - my interpretation)

Somehow that kind of explains why the DT is over-litigating, since it is 'their fault' (in a way) that RA no longer has the avenue of ineffective counsel to pursue during appeals. (JMO)

 

[SouthEnd]

One would think, even as a Non-attorney, a Lay-person, that it would be time better spent.

But this D team is not doing that.

I wonder if RA even knows that his defense team are a bunch of circus clowns just throwing crap out there to see what sticks ???

I keep thinking back on Doctor Wala's testimony. On MurderSheet Day 2 of pretrial

and later, on their follow up episode, it was mentioned that she talks to him about the support he has online. If all he knows is what the DT and Dr Wala tell him about how well the Defence is doing online, maybe he has a distorted idea of how well the DT is performing.

IMO

 

[photographer4]

I don’t think anyone expects you to hang your hat on RA’s guilt, your opinion belongs to only you. But I recall you mentioned this is the first case you’d followed from the beginning - correct me if I’m wrong - but once the trial begins I’d be certain things will fall into place including the timeline will be clarified and the process will make more sense. Considering the gag order and LE has held what they knew close to their chest since day #1, much of what you’d like to know just isn’t public information yet.

Following criminal cases requires great patience. Unlike movie or books, unfortunately we can’t flip to see the ending when we’re only half way through.

JMO

Most of the cases I follow / have followed, the victims are yet to be located. When I made that post, I had not remembered that I have followed at least a few cases where the victim was eventually found (Jacob Wetterling for instance. There was no question of the guilt of the suspect as he told police where to find Jacob’s body). He plead out. It was interesting to read about, but I don’t believe he should have ever had a plea deal. I do understand the family agreed to it in order to recover Jacob’s remains and I cannot blame them for this.

I’ve actually realized I have followed other cases as well that I hadn’t thought of before (eg: Christine Jessop - the man originally accused and found guilty in her murder was exhonerated after DNA showed it was never him!). I’ve spoken about this case many times throughout the thread. The real killer had been located in recent years via forensic genealogy and had killed himself before LE were able to figure out who he was or he too would have been held accountable.

In each of those cases, I was willing to learn the details and weigh the evidence presented by both sides. The Jessop case taught me a lot about the justice system and its flaw’s and about wrongful imprisonment. In each of these cases, I wanted the accused to have a fair trial and to be tried on the evidence, not a flimsy theory. I want the same for RA. If he is guilty, he should do the time. But I expect the facts to be clear and compelling, and well, factual. I don’t want a scrubbed polished version presented by either side. If there is reasonable doubt, then even if we hate it, it is what it is. I’m very interested to see how this case goes. So many legal issues have been presented - I’m learning loads! I just wish it wasn’t at the expense of the kids and their loved ones.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

They saw RA as he also saw them.

How is that in dispute?

Simple.... those minors didn't know the man they seen was RA, nor did RA know the juveniles. <modsnip>

 

[ClearAhead]

I keep thinking back on Doctor Wala's testimony. On MurderSheet Day 2 of pretrial

and later, on their follow up episode, it was mentioned that she talks to him about the support he has online. If all he knows is what the DT and Dr Wala tell him about how well the Defence is doing online, maybe he has a distorted idea of how well the DT is performing.

IMO

Ugg yes he could well believe he has an online fan club.

 

[ClearAhead]

I just have to share a story from the Casey Anthony trial that reminds me how people have a tendency to choose sides in this case as well. Maybe some of you will remember this story too. After the trial had begun each morning a group wearing “Team Ashton” tshirts would await Jeff Ashton’s arrival to the courthouse to welcome him, showing their moral support in his efforts to ‘fry’ CA.

Finally one day he had enough and in no uncertain terms he lashed out at his support group for acting as if a real life terrible tragedy was some kind of sporting event. I assume there was no more Team Ashton after that.

I’ve never forgotten this, especially when I observe back-and-forth banter amongst opposing fans during prime hockey season. There are definite similarities. I guess my point is we should never lose sight that it’s Libby German and Abby Williams at the centre of this tragedy, the two who will never grow older.

 

[sunshineray]

Ah. I wondered since you hadn’t posted a link along with that. Thank you for clarifying.

I said "I wonder if"...and MO

 

[MiniMoo]

In the interest of showing how no actual timeline seems to exist with any clarity:

This article says they were dropped off around 1pm:
Inside the Years-Long Hunt for Justice in the Delphi Murders

1:00pm - Indiana State Police Website:

Delphi Homicide Investigation

www.in.gov

(Seriously?? How the heck does any of the State’s timeline even almost make sense then given this????)

1:00pm - 2019 Press Conference Delphi murders: New sketch of killer, video from Libby's phone released

1:30:

Mother of Delphi railroad bridge murder victim speaks on investigation

Anna Williams is opening up on her heartbreak as the hunt for the Delphi railroad bridge killer who murdered her daughter Abigail Williams and friend Liberty German, 14, in 2017, continues.

www.dailymail.co.uk

1:35

Haunting new details about Delphi murders are revealed in court

Libby German, 14, and Abby Williams, 13, disappeared on February 13, 2017, while hiking the Monon High Bridge Trail in Delphi, Indiana. Richard Allen, 51, was charged with their murders

www.dailymail.co.uk

1:49:

Delphi Murders: Everything you want to know

Six years after the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German, the alleged killer Richard Allen prepares for trial. Here's how he got here.

www.courttv.com

What is super interesting to me is that the timeline varies so much depending on what article one wants to read! But most interesting is the time noted by the ISP themselves. If this is the timeline on their own damn website, then I’m sorry but it now really feels like they’re trying to make whatever “evidence” and “witnesses” they have fit a *version* or a *theory* of events that cannot be true based on their own stated facts!! It would probably also be really interesting to look at the dates for the articles. I wonder if it gets closer and closer to the timeline the State lays out as it got closer and closer to or just after RA’s arrest…. MOOO.

So, there is no real time line.

I saw 1:13 pm, 1:30 pm and even some making allowances for K German as she didn't get things right with some information including the drop off time, but I do feel that was understandable really as losing a little sister like that and her sister's best friend would have been totally devastating. Gut wrenching and numbing.

Am sure we will see how it all fits by the time it goes to trial.