Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #197

[girlhasnoname]

Do you think the jurors wouldn't be able to look at the unfinished portion directly in front of them and imagine the awfulness of the crime?

No, not in direct comparison to Feb 13th, 2017 at 2:13 pm. The horticultural landscape has changed and grown for over 7 years, that's a lot of time for trees, plants, scrub to grow.

The number of people and cars who may be in or around the area would not be the same as on that day, so the audio topography would also be substantially different.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

2 weeks? That's cray cray.

If there isn't a Hail Mary Defense Continuance...

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

You are correct - I will highlight that in my post below...

Thank you Niner for keeping up with all this stuff for us. I know this case has been a long one and not easy.

 

[ClearAhead]

No, not in direct comparison to Feb 13th, 2017 at 2:13 pm. The horticultural landscape has changed and grown for over 7 years, that's a lot of time for trees, plants, scrub to grow.

The number of people and cars who may be in or around the area would not be the same as on that day, so the audio topography would also be substantially different.

JMO

Even the foliage is very lush at this time of year compared to February which probably yielded clear sight lines from certain spots on the trail to the bridge. We know RA (nor anyone) is not visible anywhere on the bridge behind Abby when Libby took the photo of her posing but he had to have begun his approach having already sighted them on the bridge. JMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

In regard to the Cass Co./Carroll Co. RA custody location:
I honestly don't know how to react. RA's said to be one of the most high-profile accused murderers in Indiana and yet they have a mix-up on his location and his color. For me, it's just another vote of "NO Confidence" and I think I'll put it in the Carroll Co. box because he's officially their pretrial detainee. MOO

If you look up Richard Allen on IDOC Inmate search there are quite a few, different birth dates, that are black and a couple that are white (not RA). I noticed that awhile back when RA was still at Westville. Maybe one of those got out and rearrested? Just a thought.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If you look up Richard Allen on IDOC Inmate search there are quite a few, different birth dates, that are black and a couple that are white (not RA). I noticed that awhile back when RA was still at Westville. Maybe one of those got out and rearrested? Just a thought.

RA isn't in the custody of IDOC anymore. I think I remember them saying from when the Judge approved RA's Motion to Transfer that they were going to keep his new relocation a secret. (Although we all suspected it was Cass County Detention Center?)

Or am I dreaming this up, this case has got my mind in overload.

JMO

 

[Salah11]

Even the foliage is very lush at this time of year compared to February which probably yielded clear sight lines from certain spots on the trail to the bridge. We know RA (nor anyone) is not visible anywhere on the bridge behind Abby when Libby took the photo of her posing but he had to have begun his approach having already sighted them on the bridge. JMO MOO

I would love to know how he timed that so well with Libby’s photo of Abby. Maybe he just got incredibly lucky that he hadn’t started to cross the bridge yet.

Maybe that’s where the defence should do their job and ask why RA isn’t seen in that first photo of Abby on the bridge. Because at any age, that bridge isn’t easy to cross at pace. So he would have had to make haste to reach them, so it does make you question if he was actually in front of them walking across and not behind. IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

RA isn't in the custody of IDOC anymore. I think I remember them saying from when the Judge approved RA's Motion to Transfer that they were going to keep his new relocation a secret. (Although we all suspected it was Cass County Detention Center?)

Or am I dreaming this up, this case has got my mind in overload.

JMO

That would make sense. The judge approved RA’s transfer from State prison (IDOC) to a county jail as requested by the D.

 

[Niner]

RA isn't in the custody of IDOC anymore. I think I remember them saying from when the Judge approved RA's Motion to Transfer that they were going to keep his new relocation a secret. (Although we all suspected it was Cass County Detention Center?)

Or am I dreaming this up, this case has got my mind in overload.

JMO

Here is what I gave from the beginning of his arrest in my notes:

Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westfield Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westfield to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24].

 

[ClearAhead]

I would love to know how he timed that so well with Libby’s photo of Abby. Maybe he just got incredibly lucky that he hadn’t started to cross the bridge yet.

Maybe that’s where the defence should do their job and ask why RA isn’t seen in that first photo of Abby on the bridge. Because at any age, that bridge isn’t easy to cross at pace. So he would have had to make haste to reach them, so it does make you question if he was actually in front of them walking across and not behind. IMO

Yes it’s possible although the PCA indicated BG is right behind Abby. So assuming her image has been cropped right out of the early released photo of BG leaving only her sleeve as some have long suspected, the entire video clip showing BG directly behind Abby will be presented as evidence in court. The photo of Abby and the video of BG is timestamped so he had to have enough time to get from one place to another. Chilling to contemplate. If it’s proven RA = BG then he’s toast. MOO

 

[Trebor5591]

RA's Cass County Jail record for 2024:

VINELink

w/ typo (?) on the record. JMO

(Noticed this error, just thought I'd use the link to update my thread bookmark. Haven't visited the thread in a bit. Hope this finds all doing well as we await trial (and in my neck of the woods, peak color season.)

I didn't know Richard Allen was a black man??

 

[tlcya]

Allen is a common surname. Richard is a common name.
RICHARD MATTHEW ALLEN
Custody Record
Age52
GenderMale
RaceWhite
IN: Carroll County Sheriff's Office
ID Number228**
Custody Status In Custody
Custody Detail Carroll County Jail
Record Details
Get Notified
Ethnicity Non-Hispanic
Date of Birth Sep **, ****
ID Number228**
Custody Status Date Oct 28, 2022 11:46 AM EDT
Custody StatusIn Custody
Custody Detail Carroll County Jail
Book Date Oct 28, 2022 11:10 AM EDT
Location
Carroll County Jail
310 W Main Street
Delphi, IN 46923
(765) 564-2413
Reporting Agency
Carroll County Sheriff's Office
310 W Main Street
Delphi, IN 46923
(765) 564-2413

Related Records​

RICHARD MATTHEW ALLEN
Agency Cass County Sheriff's Office
ID Number288***
Custody Status In Custody

VINELink

ETA to find the right RA, one must look at his custody/book date

 

[FrostedGlass]

Here is what I gave from the beginning of his arrest in my notes:

Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westfield Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westfield to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24].

It's Westville, dear Niner ... not Westfield.

 

[Justice101]

Yes it’s possible although the PCA indicated BG is right behind Abby. So assuming her image has been cropped right out of the early released photo of BG leaving only her sleeve as some have long suspected, the entire video clip showing BG directly behind Abby will be presented as evidence in court. The photo of Abby and the video of BG is timestamped so he had to have enough time to get from one place to another. Chilling to contemplate. If it’s proven RA = BG then he’s toast. MOO

Even RA = BG has only to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

He placed himself there at the time and in the same clothing and admitted he was on the edge of the bridge. At least 3 eyewitness will testify. All the prosecution has to do is show the whole video where it is obvious with the sound continuation that BG abducted the girls when one of the girls said "gun".

If I was a better man (which I am not), unless something unbelievably new comes up in trial that we haven't heard about.. there's a 95% change he gets convicted based on RA = BG and his confessions. 5% hung jury/mistrial.

Just my opinion.

What I am interested in is any additional evidence gathered at his residence:
1) Coat
2) Unspent new bullets matching alloy percentages from crime scene.
3) Any mementos taken
4) Anything else that could be tied to the CS and/or BG

 

[sunshineray]

RA isn't in the custody of IDOC anymore. I think I remember them saying from when the Judge approved RA's Motion to Transfer that they were going to keep his new relocation a secret. (Although we all suspected it was Cass County Detention Center?)

Or am I dreaming this up, this case has got my mind in overload.

JMO

No you're correct. I was just remembering there were a few other RAs around and incarcerated/released. It would be something if there were two in Cass County jail.

 

[sunshineray]

I would love to know how he timed that so well with Libby’s photo of Abby. Maybe he just got incredibly lucky that he hadn’t started to cross the bridge yet.

Maybe that’s where the defence should do their job and ask why RA isn’t seen in that first photo of Abby on the bridge. Because at any age, that bridge isn’t easy to cross at pace. So he would have had to make haste to reach them, so it does make you question if he was actually in front of them walking across and not behind. IMO

Once the girls saw a person crossing over I'd think they would feel they had to wait to start crossing back. The width and condition of the bridge wouldn't bode well for people walking by each other. MO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Even the foliage is very lush at this time of year compared to February which probably yielded clear sight lines from certain spots on the trail to the bridge. We know RA (nor anyone) is not visible anywhere on the bridge behind Abby when Libby took the photo of her posing but he had to have begun his approach having already sighted them on the bridge. JMO MOO

A funny thing about that pic of her on the bridge...
From Cecil's testimony; cross-exam by MS. AUGER:
(snip)
Q All right. Is there a phone – or a picture that you have learned of that you
could not find on L.G.’s phone?
A Yes.
Q What was that?
A That was a picture of A.W. walking across the bridge and it’s kind of taken
off – like off on an angle.
Q And that was posted on her Snapchat account?
A So my understanding from social media is that’s what it was and I was
asked to try to see if I could find that by the investigators.
Q And you could not find that?
A I could not find it.

3 Day Hearing - Google Drive

drive.google.com

As a side note, there was at least one other pic that we never heard about (Cecil's testimony)
(snip)
Q Tilde, thank you. And what did you note there?
A It’s a picture of the Monon High Bridge and it’s like – it’s a picture that was
uploaded to Snapchat and the picture is like – just like somebody would be
standing like in front – like you’re getting ready to walk across it.

 

[ClearAhead]

Once the girls saw a person crossing over I'd think they would feel they had to wait to start crossing back. The width and condition of the bridge wouldn't bode well for people walking by each other. MO

I agree, considering there were no railings on the side I don’t think it was common for people to pass each other. The walking space inside the ties that originally supported the rails is only 4’ 8.5”. I can’t imagine anyone walking on the very edge. Especially a larger person such as Libby wouldn’t be able to pass by another in that narrow space without touching or at worst getting pushed, which might’ve been why she was further along and took the video from a platform according to GH iirc. So as you say the girls really had no option but to continue to the end of the bridge even if they hadn’t intended to, maybe hoping BG would turn around by then. MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

A funny thing about that pic of her on the bridge...
From Cecil's testimony; cross-exam by MS. AUGER:
(snip)
Q All right. Is there a phone – or a picture that you have learned of that you
could not find on L.G.’s phone?
A Yes.
Q What was that?
A That was a picture of A.W. walking across the bridge and it’s kind of taken
off – like off on an angle.
Q And that was posted on her Snapchat account?
A So my understanding from social media is that’s what it was and I was
asked to try to see if I could find that by the investigators.
Q And you could not find that?
A I could not find it.

3 Day Hearing - Google Drive

drive.google.com

As a side note, there was at least one other pic that we never heard about (Cecil's testimony)
(snip)
Q Tilde, thank you. And what did you note there?
A It’s a picture of the Monon High Bridge and it’s like – it’s a picture that was
uploaded to Snapchat and the picture is like – just like somebody would be
standing like in front – like you’re getting ready to walk across it.

I’m not going to jump to the conclusion that someone sent these photos other than Libby. While I don’t know much of anything about Snapchat other than it’s very different from sending a photograph to somebody and under certain circumstances the photo is deleted after viewing. During the trial I’d expect there will testimony regarding the dynamics of Snapchat. The source of the two photos has certainly been traced long ago, backtracking from the recipient who received them. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Do you think it was just a vague notion rather than specific individuals? "Good reason to believe" sounds pretty specific to me. Just my opinion, of course.

Judge weighs whether to unseal records in teens' killings

DELPHI, Ind. (AP) — An Indiana judge said Tuesday that she will decide soon whether to unseal court records that led to a man’s arrest in the 2017 killings of two teenage girls, while a prosecutor urged the court to keep the documents sealed because others could be involved in the case.

apnews.com

Whatever the reason, it was the basis for the P directing the ISP to keep the arrest docs and others sealed.
Which was in violation of the Access to Public Records Act.

https://www.in.gov/pac/files/advisory/22-FC-157.pdf

It was just a year earlier that Kline was arrested for 30 counts of CSAM, and it was determined that he had contact w/the victims the day prior to the murders. So I think LE was still trying to connect the Klines to the murders somehow. JMO