AB's involvement?

[CarmelEyesD]

I personally don't feel he is too smart. i think he always 'got by' with hard work ethics and simple basic needs..if he asked for little and worked hard, that is what people saw and knew. But he doesn't seem to be overly intelligent, and that may have made him extremely malleable by stronger personalities. JMO

 

[pip]

I personally don't feel he is too smart. i think he always 'got by' with hard work ethics and simple basic needs..if he asked for little and worked hard, that is what people saw and knew. But he doesn't seem to be overly intelligent, and that may have made him extremely malleable by stronger personalities. JMO

Well EB doesn't appear to be the sharpest either. Her letters show an emotional mentality of a young teen. Obviously stunted in development...way off the tracks.

 

[netsleuther]

the aw shucks likability, distancing himself without anger or rage at what EB must have done to and with his daughter without him, if he is to believed.

*shakes head, puzzled"

His reaction in that regard makes me think of his video interview when LE was standing beside him where AB answered something like, from what LE have told me it might be possible and then LE said they would like to keep that in the investigation.

If LE are trying to dot all i's and cross all t's then AB may have been told to keep his own speculations to himself.

It's hard to try to read his emotion, same with KB and same with their other family members. I went to KB's own fathers funeral some years ago and there was plenty of hurt in the family but the emotions were bottled up.

 

[pip]

In the video he refers to Tom Adkins as "Tom", down to earth guy. I think they are playing him for a fool. Supportive, nice cop, guilty step-mom, innocent dad.. to give AB a false sense of security (and to make him more vulnerable)...and mostly to PO EB into a frenzy that she is the only focus of suspicion so she starts revealing enough info for LE to nab AB as well. I think it has worked nicely, thus far.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Hmm, now this is an interesting departure. EB set up?

'Set up' as in someone else is equally guilty but is doing his damnedest to make sure she takes the whole rap? Oh yes. Absolutely. I think I've already said I don't believe AB is quite as daft as he makes himself out to be, mind you he's not having to do much to see EB hangs herself, she's doing a fine job of that herself.

Well, I meant "set up" as in perhaps she only took part in the clean up and disposal, but is being set up to take the fall for everything.

I'm certainly NOT saying I believe that's what happened, but I have entertained those thoughts, yes. Especially after looking at certain close relationships AB seems to have developed.

If I remove those few nagging questions, I'm firmly in the camp that both AB and EB are up to their eyeballs in this. Just can't figure out who did what exactly.

 

[Bia.]

Well, I meant "set up" as in perhaps she only took part in the clean up and disposal, but is being set up to take the fall for everything.

I'm certainly NOT saying I believe that's what happened, but I have entertained those thoughts, yes. Especially after looking at certain close relationships AB seems to have developed.

If I remove those few nagging questions, I'm firmly in the camp that both AB and EB are up to their eyeballs in this. Just can't figure out who did what exactly.

BBM.

I have to agree. I think originally, the plan was for the both of them to get away with this (the ridiculous kidnapping plan). When that failed and everyone automatically targeted EB (people coming out about the abuse, drugs, stealing, etc) he sort of just went with the flow. That would explain her letters and how she says he is letting her take the blame.

 

[raisincharlie]

BBM

I think the time frame (3 hours, according to when AB last saw Z and when the cars were seized) is enough for me to believe she couldn't possibly act alone. I think Z was dead and the act was done days before they came up with the kidnapping plan.

It's tough because we really don't know what type of man AB is. We've heard all the horror stories about EB, but what about Adam? We know he tried to run people off the road, that shows he may be capable of murder. He may have a secret violent side that nobody knew about.

I just don't feel in my heart EB acted alone and AB didn't notice one strange thing. Also, the fact that he chopped things up for a living, doesn't sit well with me either. I suppose with his line of work he would know how to go about dismembering things.

You lost me on the time frame - 3 hours ? I could be wrong but AB says EB saw Zahra at 230 am, on the 9th, not sure I believe that to start with though as AB later can't even remember what day he saw Zahra. We do know the mattress was tossed 2 or 3 days prior. The cars, according to the warrant were not taken until 9:41 pm on the 10th - well over 24 hours after Zahra was reported missing.


One thing that does trip me up though, is the fact that the remains found at Dudley Shoals were buried. I can imagine EB driving about and throwing parts of Zahra here and there, I don't think she cared about the child at all. Buried remains, just my thoughts, buried remains indicate someone cared enough to bury the victim. Most murder victims are tossed away, no significant effort to bury the victims. A large portion of Zahra was buried, just my thought, the person who buried her cared enough about her to do that. JMO on it though.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

You lost me on the time frame - 3 hours ? I could be wrong but AB says EB saw Zahra at 230 am, on the 9th, not sure I believe that to start with though as AB later can't even remember what day he saw Zahra. We do know the mattress was tossed 2 or 3 days prior. The cars, according to the warrant were not taken until 9:41 pm on the 10th - well over 24 hours after Zahra was reported missing.


One thing that does trip me up though, is the fact that the remains found at Dudley Shoals were buried. I can imagine EB driving about and throwing parts of Zahra here and there, I don't think she cared about the child at all. Buried remains, just my thoughts, buried remains indicate someone cared enough to bury the victim. Most murder victims are tossed away, no significant effort to bury the victims. A large portion of Zahra was buried, just my thought, the person who buried her cared enough about her to do that. JMO on it though.

Or they simply buried particular body parts that could immediately, on sight, identify the body as Zahra's.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

I personally dont feel EB was set up. If what we are hearing about abuse is true (and I am sure it is) the stage was already set for all of this to follow. She strikes me as a cruel controlling person, who is now trying to manipulate the situation to her advantage and for her own preservation. Whether she has help or not, I am undecided still..JMO

 

[DLT88]

Asperger's (in particular) really does take a long history of symptoms to diagnose. It's also heavily debated in the medical field (it may just be a form of high functioning Autism). My child that has Asperger's wasn't firmly diagnosed into well into her teens (her diagnosis was further hindered by the fact that Asperger's is typically NOT subscribed to females)

Here is a page about the common symptoms http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/aspergers-syndrome-symptoms and why I think they MAY pertain to AB.

[/COLOR]

This is so fascinating to learn about. Thanks so much. I can see what you are talking about with the possibility that AB might have something like this.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I personally dont feel EB was set up. If what we are hearing about abuse is true (and I am sure it is) the stage was already set for all of this to follow. She strikes me as a cruel controlling person, who is now trying to manipulate the situation to her advantage and for her own preservation. Whether she has help or not, I am undecided still..JMO

BBM

Well, as I said before, I dont either. But having said that, the fact that she previously abused Zahra does not neccesarily mean that she killed Zahra. There are numerous cases of abuse that don't result in death.

I do, however, think it's logical to assume that because she has a prior history of child abuse, she's the person most likey to have caused Zahra's death.

JMO

 

[raisincharlie]

Since I am throwing s-ghetti to see what sticks, does anyone believe it was a coincidence that AB was arrested in the wee hours of October 25th after reading Section d. of the defense's motion for bond reduction ?

I ask because Section d. says : "at approximately 9pm (Oct 24, 2010), Elisa Baker began to cooperate through her attorneys and investigator. Law enforcement was informed that Zahra Baker was deceased, that her body had been dismembered and that it would be recovered at different sites."

 

[DLT88]

I think what gets me on this is having grown up in a very (VERY VERY) mentally and physically abusive abusive home.... no one noticed. Really. No one knew it. In fact, I was often labeled the "problem" child and was fiercely protective of my abuser. We lived in a tiny apartment too. My abusers abuse was so that ... most would think my abuser was trying to punish an unruly child. In fact, in some ways other family members including extended family outside of the home CONTRIBUTED to the abuse without even realizing it. It wasn't until I was well into adulthood did a family member (one of the ones who contributed in fact) looked at me and said "OH MY GOD... it's wasn't you." and I just looked at them and shook my head "No."
They then went on a tangent as things "clicked" in their heads. "Oh my GOD ... that one time that the abuser had me do this or that ....." and I just sat there and listened.

Wow, that makes me understand a bit of how Zahra must have felt as it seemed she also protected EB. I'm so sorry you grew up in such an environment. What a very tough childhood.

 

[Kamille]

Since I am throwing s-ghetti to see what sticks, does anyone believe it was a coincidence that AB was arrested in the wee hours of October 25th after reading Section d. of the defense's motion for bond reduction ?

I ask because Section d. says : "at approximately 9pm (Oct 24, 2010), Elisa Baker began to cooperate through her attorneys and investigator. Law enforcement was informed that Zahra Baker was deceased, that her body had been dismembered and that it would be recovered at different sites."

Well didn't EB whine in one of her letters that LE had promised he would be be arrested for her safety? Okay so they kept their promise... she spilled and they arrested him. Unfortunately for EB he actually had people on the outside willing to bail him out. I guess LE neglected to mention that possibility to EB. :crazy:

MOO

 

[raisincharlie]

Well didn't EB whine in one of her letters that LE had promised he would be be arrested for her safety? Okay so they kept their promise... she spilled and they arrested him. Unfortunately for EB he actually had people on the outside willing to bail him out. I guess LE neglected to mention that possibility to EB. :crazy:

MOO

I can't imagine how she could not feel safe from AB being locked up in protective custody. Just saying.

 

[tlcya]

I have to say, ya'll raise a convincing argument. I am as close to the fence as is possible on AB's involvement and foreknowledge, without actually climing up a rung. (butt's still too sore from last fence I rode).

I aam really watching to see where LE and the DA are taking this case.

 

[Mish]

Another thought:

I thought it was rather telling that EB's lawyers discussed whether or not she was thinking of filing for divorce from AB. I'm wondering if it might have something to do with laws regarding testimony of spouses???

 

[MandyLeigh]

All you fence sitters keep on sitting. I am glad there are differences in opinions, it makes things more interesting.

As for me personally, I watched AB's interview with hope in finding a shred of doubt in my heart about his involvement. That didn't happen.

IMO it's a sad day when a father knows what horrific things happened to his child but keeps his mouth shut except to try and save his own behind. When you avoid direct questions, when you talk more about yourself then your dead child, when you wipe away non existent tears, when you show no anger or rage at your "baby" being dismembered... I have a problem.

He lived in that home. Zahra was his daughter. I just can't believe he didn't at least know what was going on with her and he did nothing about it. He knows what happened after her death but he keeps his mouth shut. I don't need details on his exact involvement as it makes him guilty enough to be punished. IMO

 

[ynotdivein]

I know many will think this is just a sign of a well-coached potential suspect.

But that moment when the reporter asked him about EB's involvement, and his eyes darted immediately to his left, to his attorney...

That kind of said a lot to me.

EB is clearly going to throw AB under the bus.

In order to maintain the story that AB had nothing to do with it, he has to be very careful with what he says about what his relationship with EB was like and what he knew about her interactions with Zahra.

Very interested to see what happens in court tomorrow and the next several weeks.

 

[Reannan]

AB's involvement has become a main focal point with this case. EB has clearly implicated him in public statements. She has taken LE to the places that Zahra's body was dumped, and she has stated AB was the one who dismembered her. Her own lawyers brought some sort of mysterious evidence to the police after her arrest that somehow validated her story. So why the He!! is he out walking around? What little evidence we have access to implicates AB!