AB's involvement?

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DNA Solves

Where do you stand on AB's involvement?

  • AB was completely clueless until the afternoon Zhra was reported missing

    Votes: 9 2.4%
  • AB was oblivous until the morning of the fire

    Votes: 5 1.3%
  • Ab was not involved with Zahra's death but completely involved in disposal

    Votes: 19 5.1%
  • AB was soley responsible for what happened to Zahra and her disposal

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • AB killed Zahra

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • AB was involved in the death and cover up of Zahra.

    Votes: 71 18.9%
  • Adam and Elisa were both equally complicit

    Votes: 94 25.1%
  • AB contributed to death by negligence; Involved in cover-up *except* for disposal

    Votes: 14 3.7%
  • AB contributed to Zahra's death through negligence and was involved in the cover up and disposal

    Votes: 138 36.8%
  • Leaning towards AB was in denial- but all depends on what was found in the house.

    Votes: 15 4.0%
  • Other: Not sure how AB is involved. Can't condemn him for Zahra's demise, as yet...I need more infor

    Votes: 35 9.3%
  • I think AB was involved and so was EB...

    Votes: 12 3.2%

  • Total voters
    375
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The funerary rites that enact these transitions are often called (in English translation) "sorry business." They occur in Aboriginal camps and houses, as well as in Christian churches because the varied funerary practices of the past have been almost exclusively displaced by Christian burial

Read more: Australian Aboriginal Religion - world, burial, body, funeral, life, history, beliefs, person, human http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Australian-Aboriginal-Religion.html#ixzz14uhhWg98

If we insist on going here then lets at least go truthfully.
 
I agree the aboriginal background info is fascinating, but sincerely doubt AB is a devout adherent to the ceremonial traditions of his cultural roots. If he were to float this as a defense I think he would have a difficult time explaining why he did not tell LE that was the case instead of allowing them to be led on this searching merry-go-round.
 
From previous location:

Even if Adam does have some minute drop of Aboriginal blood running through his veins, I hardly see him as anyone who maintained aboriginal traditions to this degree (or any degree actually). Look forward to him attempting to play this one in court however when he tries to explain the fact that he dismembered his precious daughter, not to avoid detection (oh no) but to practice his own cultural traditions.

Don't think the jury is going to buy that either.

Couldn't agree more Mrs G! Also if he really were a person who put so much into the aboriginal cultural aspect then he would be saying he didn't want Zahras photos/videos published. That goes against the culture right there!

Many of us born in Oz have some Aboriginal blood in us, but to be viewed legally as an aboriginal you have to be accepted by an aboriginal community, and live that culture, passing down dreamtime stories etc.

Meeting some goth chick on IMVU and following her to the US with his DD who has just been told she is in remission from cancer would not fit with true aboriginal culture AT ALL.

JMO
 
I truly dislike when i saw but...

But.....

When i look through my list of unanswered questions that make no sense whatsoever as well as a unique defense strategy :banghead:

I better stick to But
 
I had to sit on my hands after reading that one. I do have respect that the time was taken to explain these traditions,and understand Australia is rich in Aboriginal Culture although I highly doubt IMO it has anything to do in any way with whatever happened to Zahra.

I hope AB isn't using that one on his mom!
 
There are no msn links to back this up, none. I think it does Zahra a terrible injustice to even make it worthy of being talked about. To try and say her father chopped her up because of religious beliefs........when there is NO PROOF he is of aboriginal descent reeks of something a desperate defense attorney would try. I am appalled.

I was tired of biting mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I completely agree!! If Zahra's remains are scattered, for that action to be based on religous beliefs is IMO simply absurd ... and incosistent with aboriginal practices. My understanding is that desecration of a corpse or dismemberment has nothing to do with aboriginal funerals.

The primary burial is when the corpse is layed out on an elevated wooden platform, covered in leaves and branches, and left several months for the flesh to rot away from the bones.

The secondary burial is when the bones are collected from the platform, painted with red ochre, and then dispersed in different ways. Sometimes a relative will carry a portion of the bones with them for a year or more. Sometimes they are wrapped in paperbark and deposited in a cave shelter, where they are left to disintegrate with time.

I have lived in Melbourne, Australia. Australia, like any other civilized Western country, has laws and you cannot simply desecrate corpses and would not, ever ... even in Wagga Wagga -- which is not that far away from where I lived and not that far from the capital, Canberra. So, if not in Wagga Wagga then expecially not in Hickory where you are a foreign immigrant.

I am a firm believer of Occam's Razor, i.e., the simplest explanation and that is ... nothing more than a heinous cover-up.

GMAB.
 
A very interesting and fascinating read, OzC!

If that is/were the case, it should not come as any surprise to Adam that sometimes, cultures are not as dissimilar as they appear upon first glance. Regarding "untimely deaths," Australian Aborigines believe that:

SNIPPED: People may be held responsible for untimely deaths even if the suspected means of dispatch was not violence but accident or sorcery. The forms of justice meted out to such suspects include banishment, corporal punishment, and death (even though the latter is now banned by Australian law).

http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Australian-Aboriginal-Religion.html
 
Originally Posted by OzChristian View Post
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal.
bbm

"The Dark Child LOL" has nothing to do with aboriginal descent. It's just a term EB picked up and regurgitated from myspace, Vampire and Goth online communities. If you do some google searches you will see "Dark" attached to a lot of things in these communities. It's just EB being a follower because she claims to be a gothi/vampire/fairy. Nothing more.

Look at her letters. She writes "Dark Heart", "Dark Love", "My Favorite Dark Person" The Dark Child is just part of that.
 
The funerary rites that enact these transitions are often called (in English translation) "sorry business." They occur in Aboriginal camps and houses, as well as in Christian churches because the varied funerary practices of the past have been almost exclusively displaced by Christian burial

Read more: Australian Aboriginal Religion - world, burial, body, funeral, life, history, beliefs, person, human http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Australian-Aboriginal-Religion.html#ixzz14uhhWg98

If we insist on going here then lets at least go truthfully.

ITA. And just want to add that whatever culture one comes from, whatever one's beliefs, everyone is still subject to the prevailing law of a given country regarding the disposal of a corpse; if what my mother tells me is true I have Viking ancestors but I don't think the local authorities in California would look too kindly on me setting any of my loved ones' bodies adrift aboard a flaming longboat on the local creek.
 
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.

first of all WELCOME TO WS!!!
Although I doubt this is what really was behind all this I APPRICIATE the THINKING OUT OF THE BOX ! JMO
 
I agree the aboriginal background info is fascinating, but sincerely doubt AB is a devout adherent to the ceremonial traditions of his cultural roots. If he were to float this as a defense I think he would have a difficult time explaining why he did not tell LE that was the case instead of allowing them to be led on this searching merry-go-round.

I also think this is fascinating. I always felt that they come up with something
ritual.

There is no proof of AB being Aboriginal Austria. He sure don't look like he is.

Even if he claims to be of that descent it just fits with EB wanting to be a vampire. Theses two were made for each other. All I seen and read they did not want to be normal:banghead:
 
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.

RBBM. Oz, thank you for this information--and now I am racking my brain to remember which poster in the "Zahra Dreams and Visions" thread had a dream (or vision?) where they heard someone telling them to "look up"....

(Also, Oz, not sure if anyone has pointed you this direction yet, but if you are an "insider" with special knowledge of the case please contact Tricia our site moderator who will verify you. This will save you many challenges down the line, as we WSers tend to play it by the book, just the facts ma'am and all that... Thanks again and welcome to WS! :wave:)
 
I voted that they are equally contributive to the death and demise of Zahra as well as the dismemberment and disbersement of same. He is up to his eyeballs in this and I pray every day that evidence will fall into the hands of LE so they can lock him up for good with his "dark" wife!
 
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.



I don't think AB has much of any Australian aboriginal descent in him IMO, even if he had I don't believe this aspect comes into play here.
Although Australia has become much more respectful of peoples of Australian aboriginal descent the dynamics change when murder is suspected, one can't use that as an excuse to justify the disarticulation and systematic scattering of a family member. It's akin to burying someone after they are murdered with the excuse ,It's tradition, it's just how we deal with the dead.

The customary way of dealing with the dead is ritual to whatever culture one comes from and for me holds no "horror". I am absolutely sure what AB did he did out of fear he would be caught not out of respect for his daughter.
 
At one time I thought Adam was more involved in making decisions than it might appear
at first glance but then I noted:

1. Adam left his country to be with Elisa, not the other way around.
2. They lived within a few miles of homes that Elisa had lived in for the past 15 years or so.
They lived in her stomping grounds. He didn't say let's go live in Ohio or California etc.
& move them to a place of his own choosing.
3. He seems to have allowed her complete say-so over his daughter's life and earthly fate.
No news reports that I have read ever mentioned him as having ever slowed
or stayed Elisa's hand from harming Zahra. (Please provide a link if you find evidence to the contrary.
I always like to learn more.)
4. So far the locations where it has been reported that evidence possibly related to this case
was found have been in areas near where Elisa lived in years past and places
she, and not Adam, would have known about.

I realize that any one of these things by itself is not all that much of an indicator
but I think that taken together they might paint a picture of one person being
more of the driving force and the other being content to follow and help with
the muscle work.

I am not saying he was her total slave but I do see a pattern of behavior in their
relationship that seems to point to her being the driving force behind most decisions.

Note: That is not meant to let him off the hook in any way for what has happened but
it might help when people are thinking of where to look for evidence.

I do sort of wonder why he let Elisa seemingly direct things so much.
 
At one time I thought Adam was more involved in making decisions than it might appear
at first glance but then I noted:

1. Adam left his country to be with Elisa, not the other way around.
2. They lived within a few miles of homes that Elisa had lived in for the past 15 years or so.
They lived in her stomping grounds. He didn't say let's go live in Ohio or California etc.
& move them to a place of his own choosing.
3. He seems to have allowed her complete say-so over his daughter's life and earthly fate.
No news reports that I have read ever mentioned him as having ever slowed
or stayed Elisa's hand from harming Zahra. (Please provide a link if you find evidence to the contrary.
I always like to learn more.)
4. So far the locations where it has been reported that evidence possibly related to this case
was found have been in areas near where Elisa lived in years past and places
she, and not Adam, would have known about.

I realize that any one of these things by itself is not all that much of an indicator
but I think that taken together they might paint a picture of one person being
more of the driving force and the other being content to follow and help with
the muscle work.

I am not saying he was her total slave but I do see a pattern of behavior in their
relationship that seems to point to her being the driving force behind most decisions.

Note: That is not meant to let him off the hook in any way for what has happened but
it might help when people are thinking of where to look for evidence.

I do sort of wonder why he let Elisa seemingly direct things so much.

I think I understand what you are saying and I can relate to being in a foreign country totally dependant on my spouse, who is in familiar territory, and because I knew very few other people, for guidance as to where things are, how to do things, generally help me acclimatise to a new way of life and deal with occasional feelings of alienation, insecurity and ignorance as well as isolation from everyone and everything I knew.

However it stops at allowing him to override my good sense and judgement, dictate to me what I should and should not do or who I should and should not associate with, not that he ever would try to do those things, and be led blindly into doing things I know are wrong.

Fact is, AB, like me, is an adult and he can't 'cop out' of his responsibility for what happened to Zahra because he's a stranger in a strange land and passively allowed someone else to wear the pants and deal with everything on his behalf.
 
At one time I thought Adam was more involved in making decisions than it might appear
at first glance but then I noted:

1. Adam left his country to be with Elisa, not the other way around.
2. They lived within a few miles of homes that Elisa had lived in for the past 15 years or so.
They lived in her stomping grounds. He didn't say let's go live in Ohio or California etc.
& move them to a place of his own choosing.
3. He seems to have allowed her complete say-so over his daughter's life and earthly fate.
No news reports that I have read ever mentioned him as having ever slowed
or stayed Elisa's hand from harming Zahra. (Please provide a link if you find evidence to the contrary.
I always like to learn more.)
4. So far the locations where it has been reported that evidence possibly related to this case
was found have been in areas near where Elisa lived in years past and places
she, and not Adam, would have known about.

I realize that any one of these things by itself is not all that much of an indicator
but I think that taken together they might paint a picture of one person being
more of the driving force and the other being content to follow and help with
the muscle work.

I am not saying he was her total slave but I do see a pattern of behavior in their
relationship that seems to point to her being the driving force behind most decisions.

Note: That is not meant to let him off the hook in any way for what has happened but
it might help when people are thinking of where to look for evidence.

I do sort of wonder why he let Elisa seemingly direct things so much.


#3 on your list jumped out at me, Doc...I wonder if AB had left all the rearing to his mother, KB as well. He seems to be disconnected in that department. Does he have the mentality of the woman takes care of the home and children while he brings home the money?

I also wonder if he watched the interaction between EB and Zahra, was Zahra comfortable with and around EB or did she complain to him and he just brushed it off. His initial 911 call was odd to say the least with the puberty and brooding, staying in her room. Is this his assessment or is this what EB had him believe. JMHO

Where is Zahra?
 
first of all WELCOME TO WS!!!
Although I doubt this is what really was behind all this I APPRICIATE the THINKING OUT OF THE BOX ! JMO

I very much enjoyed reading this, because it is something we can't discount, really.

I don't know what part AB played it this. Until LE announces what they beleive happened, or until AB or EB says something, I'm sorta watching and waiting.

While I would say that it might not seem likely that AB follows a tribal way, perhaps he does. We know so little about him, or his family, or anything much, really.

I just don't see making monsters til we know what happened.

I think that this man may have been a poor parent, but there isn't any proof yet that he has killed the child.

JMO
 
#3 on your list jumped out at me, Doc...I wonder if AB had left all the rearing to his mother, KB as well. He seems to be disconnected in that department. Does he have the mentality of the woman takes care of the home and children while he brings home the money?

I also wonder if he watched the interaction between EB and Zahra, was Zahra comfortable with and around EB or did she complain to him and he just brushed it off. His initial 911 call was odd to say the least with the puberty and brooding, staying in her room. Is this his assessment or is this what EB had him believe. JMHO

Where is Zahra?

I have thought about this for a while. He met EB online. She not AB left her homeland to meet. To me that says he was afraid, or not allowed. While there, they became married. If you look at the pictures she looks like a completely different person. Not dark in nature at all. If what is said is correct. She came back to the States first, alone. He followed later with ZB. I am wondering if his whole life, his mother called the shots. Now being away from his mother, EB calls the shots. Once EB was arrested he walked around not knowing what to do. He gave interviews and all that. Once his mother came here. It all stopped. JMO
 
I have thought about this for a while. He met EB online. She not AB left her homeland to meet. To me that says he was afraid, or not allowed. While there, they became married. If you look at the pictures she looks like a completely different person. Not dark in nature at all. If what is said is correct. She came back to the States first, alone. He followed later with ZB. I am wondering if his whole life, his mother called the shots. Now being away from his mother, EB calls the shots. Once EB was arrested he walked around not knowing what to do. He gave interviews and all that. Once his mother came here. It all stopped. JMO

According to EB's father, MF, it appears AB, EB, and Zahra all moved from Australia together. (Please see quote and link below) FWIW, I met my husband online and he visited me first. Nothing nefarious...I had munchkins to travel with while he didn't and I didn't even have a passport while he did. It could be something that mundane that made her travel to him rather than vice versa. JMHO

Elisa Baker's father, Marshall Fairchild, told News 14 Carolina he never saw any abuse. The Bakers and Zahra lived with him when they moved to NC from Australia from December 19, 2008 to March 2009.

http://charlotte.news14.com/content/zahra_baker_case/zahra_baker_questions/
 
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