Found Deceased AL - Kamille "Cupcake" McKinney, 3, kidnapped from birthday party, Birmingham, 12 Oct 2019 #4

[Drc40]

I'm actually going that direction in the next hour or two. If I can get there before dark, and it "feels safe" I was planning to do that. I'll post later if I do.

That’s a dead end street. I don’t think there is a cul-de-sac so you’re going to be doing some maneuvering to get back out. I can almost bet they won’t like someone driving around taking photos and video. BE CAREFU!

 

[Sunshine95]

Good point.

I think we are long overdue to have improved protocols regarding landfills when someone goes missing and the possibility of them being dumped in trash bins exists.

The landfill itself normally does a good job of recording specific areas and layers of trash by date, and they make trash trucks dump in specific areas so they are doing their part to generally know where each week's trash should be located.

But the amount of work involved in searching any section of landfill is very labor intensive and there is no guarantee they can even find a body even if we knew it was in a certain section.

Ever since LE searched a landfill and could not find Kelsey Berreth's body in her case, I have been trying to think of a way to identify if a body is in the trash at its source during the initial pickup at homes and businesses.

If there was a special sensor tool or something attached to the trash trucks and could scan the trash during pickup to identify if any human blood or human tissue exists in the trash, then it could at least be red flagged and at least be separated. Maybe new rules could be established that all the Trash pickup people need to do is to deposit that truck's load at a certain spot in the landfill which is different than all the other trash that does not set off the warning bell.

The problem is I dont think we have any scanning type device like that which could identify it. The device would have to work similar to Cadaver dogs and only set off an alarm when there is real human blood or human tissue detected. And of course with homeowners putting most trash in plastic trash bags then that could impede any type of sensor device.

So I cannot think of anything we have today that could even do something like that, short of something like a cadaver dog and that would not be feasible.

Maybe some day in the future technology could do something like this. It would have to be a simple type new process that doesnt adversely affect the trash collectors job much because they have hard enough time just getting to all the places they have to collect trash from. It would have to be some sort of automatic scanning that does not cause the trash collectors any more work other than dumping that trucks load in a different spot.

Its so frustrating to think that someone could have deposited a murder victim simply by throwing the body in the trash never to be found again. We have got to figure out a better way to prevent that from happening.

Interesting idea! Maybe cadaver dogs checking out each load as it comes in?

 

[MsBetsy]

Yeah, hubby and I discussed it and decided it just isn't a safe idea, so we are not going through there.

Yeah, it's not the same as taking pictures at a public park or other public place.

 

[Steelslady]

Seems like we are going after all the boogeyman theories of child abduction, candy, puppies... Maybe they just observed a little girl with no obvious supervision and took her, cause apparently they could. A three year old child in the wrong place at the wrong time.

yes, but remember- something made those two little kids run after the second person. Whether he lured them with the promise of candy, seeing his new puppy, or "let's play a game", etc- he somehow got them to come with him to the parking lot, and only one child made it back.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Direct link to,above:
https://w3.cdn.anvato.net/player/pr...yVmVyc2lvbiI6IjMuMy4zIn19LCJodG1sNSI6dHJ1ZX0=

 

[Hatfield]

Interesting idea! Maybe cadaver dogs checking out each load as it comes in?

Yeah , it gets complicated because of the sheer volume of trash being collected and how to not make the trash collector's job any harder than it already is.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[Lillymac]

I remember a taller woman standing next to her, but I don't know who it was. Imo

I thought it was her mother, but now not sure.

 

[quidnunc247]

Direct link to,above:
https://w3.cdn.anvato.net/player/prod/v3/anvload.html?key=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

So police want to talk to both of these people?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Anyone geographically inclined enough to mark an aerial map showing where we think that camera is positioned and where it is pointed?

 

[TTF14]

To me, in the video around 5-6 seconds it looks like first person turns to say something to the kids. Doesn't stop, but does say something to them (or to the second adult behind him).

(Edited to change "girls" to "kids" since we do not know the sex of the second child.)

 

[alyssa5597]

So police want to talk to both of these people?

They already have talked to and know who the second man is. They want to talk to the first person now as they may have more information.

 

[Gardener1850]

Yes, but I thought they said in earlier interviews that they were on a playground at the apartment complex before the kidnapping? The little ones seem far away from one, or even far away from older kids and adults.

Sorry, I don't recall seeing that in this case. Perhaps you are thinking of Dulce or Ahlora's case? They were both taken from playgrounds. All I remember seeing about Cupcake is that she was at a birthday party in a parking lot of the apts prior to disappearing. But I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time ). MOO.

 

[alyssa5597]

To me, in the video around 5-6 seconds it looks like first person turns to say something to the kids. Doesn't stop, but does say something to them (or to the second adult behind him).

(Edited to change "girls" to "kids" since we do not know the sex of the second child.)

We likely do know the second child is also a female.

Chief in responding to who the second child is..

“we are not going to put HER name out there”

watch at 4:45 left in video

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Birmingham police said that the time stamp on the surveillance video is wrong, and it was taken around the time of the kidnapping, between 8 p.m. and 8:30 p.m. on Saturday, Oct. 12.

Birmingham Police Chief Smith said the second man in the video is a suspect. He declined to identify him or say if they have him in custody.

Chief Smith explained why the want to identify the first man in the video, seen walking past the children playing. "We want to see if he has additional information or if he saw something that night that may be critical in this investigation."

Chief Smith said they have not determined a motive for the kidnapping and don't believe a lot of planning went into it. "I think maybe 20 minutes. I don't think a lot of planning went into it."

Children in the area that night told police there was a man handing out candy to kids.
Police release new video in connection to 3-year-old girl kidnapped in Alabama

 

[TTF14]

We likely do know the second child is also a female.

Ah, ok. Thanks!

 

[MassGuy]

Good point.

I think we are long overdue to have improved protocols regarding landfills when someone goes missing and the possibility of them being dumped in trash bins exists.

The landfill itself normally does a good job of recording specific areas and layers of trash by date, and they make trash trucks dump in specific areas so they are doing their part to generally know where each week's trash should be located.

But the amount of work involved in searching any section of landfill is very labor intensive and there is no guarantee they can even find a body even if we knew it was in a certain section.

Ever since LE searched a landfill and could not find Kelsey Berreth's body in her case, I have been trying to think of a way to identify if a body is in the trash at its source during the initial pickup at homes and businesses.

If there was a special sensor tool or something attached to the trash trucks and could scan the trash during pickup to identify if any human blood or human tissue exists in the trash, then it could at least be red flagged and at least be separated. Maybe new rules could be established that all the Trash pickup people need to do is to deposit that truck's load at a certain spot in the landfill which is different than all the other trash that does not set off the warning bell.

The problem is I dont think we have any scanning type device like that which could identify it. The device would have to work similar to Cadaver dogs and only set off an alarm when there is real human blood or human tissue detected. And of course with homeowners putting most trash in plastic trash bags then that could impede any type of sensor device.

So I cannot think of anything we have today that could even do something like that, short of something like a cadaver dog and that would not be feasible.

Maybe some day in the future technology could do something like this. It would have to be a simple type new process that doesnt adversely affect the trash collectors job much because they have hard enough time just getting to all the places they have to collect trash from. It would have to be some sort of automatic scanning that does not cause the trash collectors any more work other than dumping that trucks load in a different spot.

Its so frustrating to think that someone could have deposited a murder victim simply by throwing the body in the trash never to be found again. We have got to figure out a better way to prevent that from happening.

Yeah, that sort of thing happens all the time. Most bodies are never recovered.

I was watching a case on tv the other night where a guy used that method twice, putting victim’s bodies in suitcases and placing them in dumpsters.

Law enforcement was able to recover one victim, but not the other.

 

[Simply Southern]

@PommyMommy ...Would you happen to have the address, apt number?

Looking at Google maps for the camera location, from today's presser video.

Thanks

 

[Sillybilly]

JMO
Im still pretty convinced the 1st guy drops something (candy or coins) to make the children pick up even more. Because right after he walks by, then the kids are actively scrambling to pick things up in the area that he could have easily dropped or slightly tossed a handful.

I dont disagree that the children may have been picking up stuff before he walks by either but I do think they start picking up things the 1st guy drops.

It makes me wonder if maybe one of them or someone else may have deposited or tossed some of the same items even before we see this video today. Maybe we are not being shown what happened before we even saw this part today.

For example if earlier one of them had scattered some candy around and then came over to the girls wherever they were and told them, hey over there near that area there is lots of candy over there. It could have made them go to the area where they then approached them again. That could be why they were picking things up to begin with.

Or they may have been picking up small rocks or something and then their focus shifted to what Guy #1 threw down.

I think it was real subtle the way guy #1 drops the items as he walks by. I think he was purposely trying not to be noticed by anyone else in the area and he let guy #2 do the dirty work after guy #1 walks on by and lures them by dropping stuff.

JMO of course but Im still thinking Guy #1 was part of the whole thing and dropped things to setup the kids for Guy #2.

ITA Hatfield. When going through the video click-by-click, IMO #1 definitely turns his body toward the children a split second after he passes by them, so not an action that was done in order to avoid bumping into them.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Doesn't it seem like if they know where the POI frequents they should know who he is? Called me confused.

They do know who he is. They are looking for the first man in the video.

Probably already posted. I'm behind again.