Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[shotgun09]

I wonder if a lot of actors will now refuse to work with guns, real or prop, and insist on CGI. I would.

I imagine actors are reeling from this. Can you imagine being a parent of a child actor? Hell no!! " My child will not be coming on set today, sorry".

 

[Luna20]

RSBM

I don't think that's the legal principle.

An individual's responsibility cannot extend to knowing what other people are deliberately concealing.

For example, a school is not responsible if a student walks in with a gun and starts shooting people. The parent is not responsible if their child acquired the weapon secretly. Police are not responsible if they did not know it was going to happen...

The legal principle is who brought the ammo there. Let’s say someone intentionally put bullets in the gun, she is still responsible for having it there in a No ammo zone.

 

[cocomod]

Whomever decided to cut corners and have an armorer (a very inexperienced armorer) handle dual roles on a western film should have some culpability here. I read an article yesterday from a very well known propmaster that turned down the job due to concerns about safety concerns. This is a very common practice in Hollywood. My husband has talked to film managers before for a new project and turned down jobs because they refused to accept his demands for safety. He is a medic and refuses to cut corners on set.

Again, I am not a fan of AB at all, in fact I almost despise his arrogance. However, I would like to know his role as a producer. Many times, actors who are listed as producers do not have a role on hiring and/or budgets. They are often listed as producers because of their input on the artistic side - the acting side.

I know that there were more issues with this production that the public has no idea about. Budgetary cuts that were unsafe and were of concern to everyone. COVID has raised the cost of almost all productions due to the many new procedures that had to be put in place to protect the actors and the staff. Film managers have been trying to cut costs in other areas to make up the difference - including reduced craft services and reduced catering. Some have also cut stand-by ambulances, etc. I am seriously curious about any stand-by ambulances / helicopters since this was a set that was a bit away from Santa Fe. Industry standards when there is a stunt or any chance for injury to have stand-by setup. With guns involved, and the distance from a hospital, there should have been notice given and request for stand-by emergency already in place. Likely, a 911 call wouldn't have need to be made since they could have contacted the stand-by and it would have been sent immediately.

 

[RANCH]

Would you ask that question of every actor who ever appeared in a scene that required them to appear to shoot off a real gun, both in rehearsal and on film/video/live stage?

For example, would you expect an actress like Meryl Streep to be a personal expert on the gun she might be expected to use in a movie?

Why does anyone have to be an expert to practice basic firearm safety?

 

[Dotta]

I wonder if a bullet taken from the body of a director has fingerprints or DNA of the culprit?
Or the cartridge?

 

[mickey2942]

I imagine actors are reeling from this. Can you imagine being a parent of a child actor? Hell no!! " My child will not be coming on set today, sorry".

You would be surprised what some of the parents of child actors agree to. And the things they sign off on. It is a completely different mindset.

 

[PoppyBear]

Exactly!! Unfortunately we live in a society that is quicker to say guns are bad than teach firearm safety. Firearms are always going to exist and everyone should know basic firearm safety. I find it highly likely that Alec Baldwin is ignorant of basic safety. I don't think making HG the sole individual responsible for this is reasonable. Her job may be to check, but with a gun, that hardly should mean any individual handling any weapon not responsible. He pointed at her and pulled the trigger. Even with an empty gun, that should NEVER be done. You NEVER point a gun on someone.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

It isn't elitism. Actors are in a different position because they are working as part of a crew in which SOP is that there are other professionals hired to do precisely those checks. To use an admittedly imperfect analogy: parents are presumptively responsible for caring for their children. But we consider it acceptable for parents to hire a babysitter who assumes that responsibility for a period of time. In fact, in hiring a babysitter for the three hours that they are going to be out, the parents are fulfilling their obligation to care of the children for that period. Similarly, the way an actor fulfils the responsibility to make sure a gun isn't loaded is to hire someone else to check the gun.

Now, if it is true that AB was also in violation of widely observed industry standards that he should have known, he may still be liable. But it seems clear to me that he isn't primarily to blame, and hard for me to imagine that this rises to criminal culpability.

One other thing I'll point out is that it isn't like Baldwin picked up a gun and started randomly practicing his movements. The crew was setting up for this scene. The AD brought him a gun. The cameras were in position. No one else on the set seems to have been perturbed that AB was pointing a gun in the direction of others. No one else cleared the room or took special protective measures, as far as we know. No one said "OMG, Alec, check the gun!" That argues against this being an egregious violation of widely understood practices.

The difference between parenting responsibilities being delegated to a babysitter is the parent is not there when an action/event takes place. Presumably they hire a qualified person who is willing to follow instructions and protocols set in place for the safety of their children. If they had two previous incidents of their child falling in the swimming pool while unattended I don’t think they would continue with that same babysitter. They already had two gun misfires on that set prior to this deadly shooting. Six crewmembers had previously walked out that very morning because of unsafe conditions and lack of pay. Unlike a parent who is absent from the home if or when an accident or action takes place, Alec was present and able to alter the action. The responsibility of gun safety is never only the responsibility of someone else if you are the one handling the weapon.

 

[jjenny]

Exactly!! Unfortunately we live in a society that is quicker to say guns are bad than teach firearm safety. Firearms are always going to exist and everyone should know basic firearm safety. I find it highly likely that Alec Baldwin is ignorant of basic safety. I don't think making HG the sole individual responsible for this is reasonable. Her job may be to check, but with a gun, that hardly should mean any individual handling any weapon not responsible. He pointed at her and pulled the trigger. Even with an empty gun, that should NEVER be done. You NEVER point a gun on someone.

It's a movie. In movies people point guns at others and pull triggers. If the gun isn't loaded with real bullets, that shouldn't cause any harm.

 

[jjenny]

I wonder if a bullet taken from the body of a director has fingerprints or DNA of the culprit?
Or the cartridge?

That bullet went through one person and ended up in another. I doubt any fingerprints would have survived. Also, after the shooting, the armorer handled the gun and the casing. So her fingerprints are possibly going to be on the gun and the casing, but what is that going to prove?

 

[Arkay]

RSBM

I don't think that's the legal principle.

An individual's responsibility cannot extend to knowing what other people are deliberately concealing.

For example, a school is not responsible if a student walks in with a gun and starts shooting people. The parent is not responsible if their child acquired the weapon secretly. Police are not responsible if they did not know it was going to happen...

Hi, with respect I disagree.

The armorer is not responsible for what others are concealing, that is true. But she was utterly responsible to check that the gun was empty prior to it being handed over to the AD or to Alec Baldwin. So, she didn't need to make sure everyone on set emptied their pockets. She just had to check the gun one more time, and she would've discovered it held a real bullet. Then LE would've come and investigated who brought that to set. Her job would've taken her a few seconds and no one would've been killed or injured.

Further to your point, I taught in NYC for 25 years. It wasn't my job to know if a student brought a gun, but it was my responsibility to teach. If I sat in a classroom of 14-year olds and filed my nails, I would be derelict in my duties. If I filed my nails, a fight broke out among the kids, a child got hurt and I paid no attention, I would then be criminally negligent. I could lose my job for that. Charges could be filed.

The job of HGR was to ensure no live rounds were in the gun. She did not do that. She couldn't have, because a real bullet was there.

Beyond that, someone with experience ought to anticipate every potential outcome. My job was to teach my subject, but we also spent every Halloween morning checking the kids' bookbags for eggs, etc. because we anticipated the possible outcomes if we didn't.

IMO.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Would you ask that question of every actor who ever appeared in a scene that required them to appear to shoot off a real gun, both in rehearsal and on film/video/live stage?

For example, would you expect an actress like Meryl Streep to be a personal expert on the gun she might be expected to use in a movie?

I would ask that every actor in a scene that required them to use a deadly weapon to have basic gun safety education, that does not take being an expert. No one would accept the lack of basic gun safety in any other situation, especially after a deadly shooting, so I don’t know why they accept it on a movie set.

 

[borndem]

Just wow. How many of these rules seem to have been violated? I lost count!

Thanks for the post, @wary!
Such a lot of rules, but all good ones. Of course the WB Company has to protect itself for things such as we have here, and those rules cover seemingly every possibility.
But it's WB's document... SMH. If only...

Boy-oh-boy, do I smell whopping Wrongful Death suits coming -- suing many folks. What an awful thing to happen. She is just gone.

 

[Dotta]

That bullet went through one person and ended up in another. I doubt any fingerprints would have survived. Also, after the shooting, the armorer handled the gun and the casing. So her fingerprints are possibly going to be on the gun and the casing, but what is that going to prove?

Yes, you are right

 

[borndem]

WooHoo, did you see the later footage with that marine?! Give that guy a Black Rifle Coffee!

Okay, back to Alec Baldwin. That sheriff is pretty awesome. I think that there will be a comprehensive and transparent investigation.

bbm
I agree. I was very impressed with him -- smart, articulate, and caring.

 

[mickey2942]

Guns are not toys. No matter what anyone tells you, if you didn't personally check it, you dropped the ball.

This is a gun.
It only propels a bullet when the trigger is pulled.
In this instance, the hammer has to be pulled back, to "*advertiser censored*" the gun. That is prior to pulling the trigger. Deliberate actions. Done by the person who has the gun.

That is why, anyone who is holding a gun, needs to understand basic gun safety. Always assume a gun is loaded, with live bullets, unless you, the person holding the gun, has checked it.

Someone hands you a gun, that can kill people, and you don't check it?

 

[DI_Isokawa]

From the Albuquerque Journal:

SANTA FE — Assistant director David Halls and armorer Hannah Gutierrez had a routine on the set of “Rust.” Halls told deputies he would check the gun barrel for obstructions, Gutierrez would spin the cylinder to check the revolver for ammunition and — if determined safe — he would say “cold gun on set.”

But during a rehearsal in an old church on set Oct. 21, Halls couldn’t remember if Gutierrez spun the cylinder and said he didn’t check all the rounds inside the Pietta Long Colt .45 revolver before handing it to actor Alec Baldwin, according to court documents. Halls told deputies, in hindsight, he should have checked.

When Baldwin pulled the trigger, authorities say, a lead bullet killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza on the set at Bonanza Creek Ranch outside Santa Fe.

Halls told deputies when he checked the gun after, he saw four “dummy” casings with holes in the side and a fifth casing from a live round.

“It was not a deliberate act,” Halls told deputies.

I believe the purpose of loading with dummy rounds was to make the weapon appear to the camera to be loaded, assuming (as I do) that the camera angle was straight down the business end of the barrel. Presumably the weapon was loaded with dummy rounds to make the rehearsal/camera shot blocking as close to the actual take as possible. If the rehearsal was conducted with a empty gun the discussion below would be irrelevant because no one would have been harmed.

On the set the dummy rounds were distinguished by having holes drilled in the sides. There is no mention that the rounds were painted a special color to distinguish them from "live" (energetic) rounds. This means that one could not tell if a round in a chamber was dummy or live by spinning the chamber and looking at the ends of the rounds. So their "safety procedure," even if followed, was fatally flawed.

The only way to guarantee the firearm contained dummy rounds and only dummy rounds would be to follow the two-person military procedure described earlier: two people lay out the firearm and the rounds on a workspace. Each individual checks each round to verify it has a hole in the side. Then one person loads the firearm while the other watches. Finally, a chain of custody is maintained to the location where the firearm is to be used.

With the system used on the set (dummy rounds indicated by a hole in the side), if Halls wished to verify that the weapon contained nothing but dummy rounds, he would have to unload the weapon, check each round individually, and reload it. This is not a quick process for a side-loading revolver; see the YouTube video I posted earlier.

Rehearse with dummy rounds, four dummy rounds and one live, no way to check without unloading the weapon, and the one live round just happened to be at the right position in cylinder so it would rotate under the hammer when the gun was cocked. Lotta coincidences there.

 

[MsMarple]

I keep meaning to ask: Why did HG remove the casing from the gun after the shooting? It seems like everything, including guns and ammo, should have been left untouched for LE to inspect. Is there a legitimate reason for handling the gun? Could there have been additional bullets in the gun?

The Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez) was given the prop gun after it was fired by Actor Alec Baldwin, she then took the spent casing out of the prop-gun. When deputies arrived on scene, the prop-gun was handed to arriving deputies by Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez).
‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals Details About Fatal Shooting – Read It – Deadline
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rust-oct-27-search-warrant_Redacted.pdf

 

[jjenny]

Yep, with that system, if the holes aren't visible without unloading, for Baldwin to check it, he would have to unload it, and then reload it. And I don't think actors are supposed to be doing that.
When Halls was checking it, I don't know what he was supposed to have been checking if they weren't unloading the gun-could they see the holes without unloading the gun?

 

[jjenny]

I keep meaning to ask: Why did HG remove the casing from the gun after the shooting? It seems like everything, including guns and ammo, should have been left untouched for LE to inspect. Is there a legitimate reason for handling the gun? Could there have been additional bullets in the gun?

The Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez) was given the prop gun after it was fired by Actor Alec Baldwin, she then took the spent casing out of the prop-gun. When deputies arrived on scene, the prop-gun was handed to arriving deputies by Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez).
‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals Details About Fatal Shooting – Read It – Deadline
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rust-oct-27-search-warrant_Redacted.pdf

I believe AD claims he told her to check what was in the gun. That's how they found four dummy rounds and a casing from a live round that killed the cinematographer.