Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[Gardenista]

Long, but good video with an armorer and prop-master (Dutch Merrick, he's been making the rounds on various shows) and a CDA/law prof

 

[jjenny]

It seems that dummy rounds can be colored differently (for non theatrical/film use), or be crimped/indented or have holes or other markings to distinguish them from live rounds (which should NOT be on set). This is just my understanding at this point, and I may be mistaken, so all JMO.

Images of "dummy" rounds:

dummy round - Google Search..

Yep. On the "Rust" set dummy rounds had holes in their side. Which presumably means that without inspecting each round for the hole, one couldn't tell for sure if it was a dummy.

 

[PrairieWind]

I wonder if a lot of actors will now refuse to work with guns, real or prop, and insist on CGI. I would.

I think a more likely scenario is that the insurance companies that cover productions will simply say, no more real guns on the set, period.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Another thing I was thinking about, what if the actor has vision problems? One example would be Oscar winner Dame Judi Dench. Do you simply not hire such an actor based on inability to visually check a prop gun?

I don’t think you ever compromise on safety, let her use a fake gun, use technology to create the wanted effects

 

[fred&edna]

I don’t think you ever compromise on safety, let her use a fake gun, use technology to create the wanted effects

I agree. There's no way every actor can check every weapon they're handed on set.

 

[PoppyBear]

It's a movie. In movies people point guns at others and pull triggers. If the gun isn't loaded with real bullets, that shouldn't cause any harm.

I disagree. I don’t think anyone should ever assume a gun doesn’t have a live round simply because they have been told by someone it is safe. It is the job of every single person who holds a gun to know firearm safety and to follow the rules yourself. It would have taken him less than five seconds to double check the firearm. Hardly too much to ask. Maybe HG and AD hold responsibility, but so does Baldwin.

I truly am having a tough time understanding why everyone is so eager to remove any blame from Baldwin himself.

The average person would be held accountable for shooting and killing someone, accidentally or not.

 

[jjenny]

I disagree. I don’t think anyone should ever assume a gun doesn’t have a live round simply because they have been told by someone it is safe. It is the job of every single person who holds a gun to know firearm safety and to follow the rules yourself. It would have taken him less than five seconds to double check the firearm. Hardly too much to ask. Maybe HG and AD hold responsibility, but so does Baldwin.

I truly am having a tough time understanding why everyone is so eager to remove any blame from Baldwin himself.

The average person would be held accountable for shooting and killing someone, accidentally or not.

It wouldn't take less than five seconds. Gun was loaded with dummy rounds. To check, one would have to unload the gun and inspect each round. There is no way an actor is expected to do that. An armorer is supposed to load and unload the gun. Not an actor.

 

[Gardenista]

‘Rust’ Shooting Death: Executive Producers Disavow Responsibility Over Accident – Deadline

 

[PoppyBear]

Again, I disagree. ANYONE who handles a firearm is expected to follow gun safety rules. Actors are not the exception to that rule.

Had he taken the time to check the gun himself, nobody would be debating this now.

I am not suggesting movie set safety protocols were not followed, but it is a gun. You never assume anything with a gun.

 

[Arkay]

I believe AD claims he told her to check what was in the gun. That's how they found four dummy rounds and a casing from a live round that killed the cinematographer.

It’s glaringly obvious that if they had done this BEFORE, as they were supposed to have done, we wouldn’t be here right now and Halyna would.

IMO

 

[Dotta]

‘Rust’ Shooting Death: Executive Producers Disavow Responsibility Over Accident – Deadline

So....
The fight among producers has begun.
As they say:

A Success has many fathers
but
A Failure is an orphan.

 

[Luna20]

‘Rust’ Shooting Death: Executive Producers Disavow Responsibility Over Accident – Deadline

Good find @Gardenista. There is a wealth of information in this article. It explains more of who has a stake in the film and more details on insurance (Chubb).


“Rust was not bonded. Two of the three U.S. completion bond firms were approached about bonding the project, according to sources, but it didn’t happen. In one of the two cases, a potential financier made inquiries with one and stepped back from the film when the company declined to issue a bond.

Bonds are like super-insurance, with the bond company on the hook for costs if a film isn’t delivered in time and on budget. Productions also have traditional insurance, in Rust’s case said to be from Chubb, which declined to comment.

Production sources tell Deadline while Rust is a $7 million production, monies raised through a North American distribution rights sale to The Avenue as well as foreign presales from Highland Group have amounted to $3 million”

 

[Mo Thuairim]

‘Rust’ Shooting Death: Executive Producers Disavow Responsibility Over Accident – Deadline

It may not be so easy for producers to wash their hands of this, even EPs.

From your link (BBM):

All of this begs the question: Who owns and operates Rust Movie Productions LLC? Sources inform us it’s Cheney and Donnell Smith, both being Salveson’s Streamline Global business partners, who also operate the production company Thomasville Pictures, one of the production companies on Rust as indicated in previous casting announcements for the film on Deadline. Thomasville were also partners on Baldwin’s previous feature project Supercell, which has not yet been released.

According to the LLC business filings in New Mexico for Rust LLC, and Thomasville in Georgia, both companies share the same exact business address of 502 S. Broad Street, Thomasville, GA, a Neoclassical Revival house built in 1907 known as The Elijah Leon Neel House.

Production sources inform Deadline that Donnell Smith bought the non-WGA Rust script from Baldwin, which would give the producer equity in the film.

In addition, sources who prefer to remain anonymous tell us that Donnell Smith was the day-to-day producer on Rust, who hired 3rd Shift Media, a production services company based in Atlanta. There are two Ryan Smiths associated with the Rust production: producer Ryan Donnell Smith and Ryan Dennett Smith who owns 3rd Shift Media.

Production sources also tell Deadline that 3rd Shift Media was involved in hiring Halls and armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. 3rd Shift Media employees also provided services on the production, including Gabrielle Pickle, Rust‘s line producer, and UPM Row Walters.

Lots more at link:

‘Rust’ Shooting Death: Executive Producers Disavow Responsibility Over Accident – Deadline

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I agree. There's no way every actor can check every weapon they're handed on set.

Why not? Anyone who is going to take the responsibility of handling a real gun needs to take the responsibility for the safety of it along with the staff hired to monitor the weapons. I genuinely do not understand this thought process that they will not be able to check the gun, have the gun opened for them to verify empty, properly loaded, etc. Doing this gives the armorer, actor, AD, whoever, one more opportunity to verify everything is correct.

 

[jjenny]

"“I frankly think that if you have a movie set where you’ve got live ammunition that is intermingled with dummy ammunition and intermingled with blanks, that’s the kind of activity that rises to the level of gross negligence, and I do believe that someone, ultimately, is going to be charged with at least criminal negligence in this case,” Jeff Harris, a trial attorney, said on CNBC’s “The News with Shepard Smith” Wednesday."

Baldwin shooting: Involuntary manslaughter charges could be filed, lawyers say (cnbc.com)

 

[jjenny]

Why not? Anyone who is going to take the responsibility of handling a real gun needs to take the responsibility for the safety of it along with the staff hired to monitor the weapons. I genuinely do not understand this thought process that they will not be able to check the gun, have the gun opened for them to verify empty, properly loaded, etc. Doing this gives the armorer, actor, AD, whoever, one more opportunity to verify everything is correct.

It's a movie set. An armorer is supposed to load and unload the gun, not an actor. Actors are not in charge of preparing their props. That's why a movie set has a prop director, and armorer, and so on.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Again, I disagree. ANYONE who handles a firearm is expected to follow gun safety rules. Actors are not the exception to that rule.

Had he taken the time to check the gun himself, nobody would be debating this now.

I am not suggesting movie set safety protocols were not followed, but it is a gun. You never assume anything with a gun.

I don’t understand it either, in any other situation they would expect the person holding the gun to operate with gun safety protocol, I don’t see a movie set as excusing that. I’m not putting responsibility all on Baldwin but it was another failure.

 

[jjenny]

I don’t understand it either, in any other situation they would expect the person holding the gun to operate with gun safety protocol, I don’t see a movie set as excusing that. I’m not putting responsibility all on Baldwin but it was another failure.

If you run around in a real world, pointing gun at people, you are likely going to be arrested. In the movies, that's what actors do if they are in a Western. And they are not getting arrested for it.

 

[RANCH]

This Dan Abrams video has an expert film armorer named Clay Van Sickle demonstrate examples of blank, dummy, and live ammunition.

I noted that the dummy round used in films does not have a hole in the side. It has the primer punched to deactivate it and BB's inside that can be heard if shaken. It visually looks like a live round except for the punched primer which can be seen from rear of the guns cylinder when the loading gate is opened and the cylinder spun.

I think AD Halls meant to say "rear" instead of "side" when talking to LE. That would make much more sense. JMO.

Timestamp 10:56.

 

[PoppyBear]

Why not? Anyone who is going to take the responsibility of handling a real gun needs to take the responsibility for the safety of it along with the staff hired to monitor the weapons. I genuinely do not understand this thought process that they will not be able to check the gun, have the gun opened for them to verify empty, properly loaded, etc. Doing this gives the armorer, actor, AD, whoever, one more opportunity to verify everything is correct.

I am having a really difficult time with this thought process as well. It seems to imply that actors are “above” checking weapons themselves. What kind of privilege allows someone to not bear responsibility for a firearm they are handling? I would never trust that a firearm was safe unless I had checked myself. Ever.