Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[RANCH]

I wondered about a squib load at first too but it seems like they have evidence of live rounds on set now, including the bullet removed from AH's shoulder after it exited HH's body. Jmo

You're right. LE finding live ammunition points directly to that being it. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

Her statement of defense has implications. If she doesn’t know how live ammo got into the gun implies she took her eyes off the guns.

The attempted deflection in HGR's statements via her lawyer's have fallen flat IMO. They appear more like admissions of guilt to me. JMO.

 

[WillieMac]

For the most part we agree. It would send me into sheer panic if someone handed me a ‘cold gun’ and told me to aim at the camera. It goes against the grain of everything I’ve been taught. The responsibility lies with me. But I’ve never been an actor.

I had to lol at your “wife’s kitchen”. That might get you into trouble in some parts of the country.

I've been trying to catch up with the posts in the thread before I posted but this is just what I've been wanting to say. I agree with most of this chain of statements but if I has stated them, I would change part of the comments to say that I don't think anyone could convince me that I should point a gun at a person and pull the trigger - even if they showed me it was empty/safe/whatever and I had checked it myself to personally confirm it. Pointing it at a camera and firing, yeah maybe - as long as it was a remote camera & no person was behind it. I just don't think I could do that unless the person on the other end of that gun was trying to kill me or others around me. I just don't think I could. Instead, I would be asking for safety measures to be put in place. Anyone in the intended (mock) like of fire should be moved/removed, and/or bullet-proof safety barriers would need to be put in place. ...and if putting those measures in place took to long for those in charge, ta he11 with those im charge. I would still also like to know why they had no access to a remote camera and why not even one safety barrier had been put in place on this set. The amount of carelessness & cost-cutting measures that I think I'm hearing about on this set just boggles my mind.

 

[WillieMac]

I agree, in this case the "trust the armorer" concept did not work.

But, given the variety of weapons used on movie sets and the danger of people unfamiliar with weapons types trying to verify what is loaded, 'trusting the armorer' maybe the statistical winner in the long term.

Do we really know that it was the "trust the armorer" thing that failed? When the AD who had previously been fired from a production for recklessness & has a history of rushing thru productions at the cost of safety, says he only remembers seeing 3 of 6 rounds, do you think that would have been because the Armorer just got lazy & stopped spinning the cylinder? Or do you think it was maybe because the AD got impatient and just grabbed the gun from her in the middle of her safety review/ inspection as she handed it off to him?

 

[Gardenista]

"Rust" Producers Made Mistakes Before Alec Baldwin Shooting, Crew Says

 

[Lux et Veritas]

At least executive producers will still make money off this film.
Funny how that works.

'Rust' Tragedy Raises Questions on Indie Producers' Lack of Experience - Variety

BBM
..Emily Salveson, 36, also got into the business relatively recently with support from her father, an attorney experienced in tax credit financing. Salveson has made extensive use of Section 181, a provision of the tax code that allows wealthy people to write off their investments in low-budget films.

The tax code provision allows investors to deduct their investment in a film project, up to $15 million, at the time the money is spent.

When combined with state tax incentives such as the 25%-35% credit awarded in New Mexico investors can recoup most of their money before the film is even distributed.

In public appearances, Salveson has sometimes appeared to take credit for originating the use of Section 181 financing.

“When I created this financial model, I thought is there a way to make it so that the profits of the film are not what defines whether the investor makes money or not?” she said at the time. “With 181, it doesn’t matter whether the film is fully completed. The investor still gets their benefit on day one.”

My god, what a wretched, cold-blooded creature.

Ain't vulture capitalism grand?

 

[everybodhi]

Your opinion is wrong. It was a single-action revolver and looking at it will not tell you whether it is loaded or not. You can figure it our, but A.B. is an anti-gun nut and he wouldn't have a clue how to do it. Nor should you expect that he would.
C

Interesting tribute to his father, everyone has a reason for who they are.

Remembering My Father

He served in the United States Marine Corps and was an expert marksman in riflery. He was honorably discharged for medical reasons after being shot, accidentally, during rifle instruction on Parris Island.

He was coach of the Massapequa High School rifle team, which went to the New York State Public High School Athletic Association state riflery championship twice during his career. That honor was nearly always the reserve of upstate, and therefore more rural, schools. For a "downstate" school to win was considered impossible. My father's team won both times.

Years later, doctors informed me that the inhalation of lead dust from working in an unventilated rifle range may have contributed significantly to his death. On Parris Island in 1945, a bullet would not kill him. But bullets eventually did, at the age of 55, from lymph cancer that spread through his body.

 

[Speculaytor]

Do we really know that it was the "trust the armorer" thing that failed? When the AD who had previously been fired from a production for recklessness & has a history of rushing thru productions at the cost of safety, says he only remembers seeing 3 of 6 rounds, do you think that would have been because the Armorer just got lazy & stopped spinning the cylinder? Or do you think it was maybe because the AD got impatient and just grabbed the gun from her in the middle of her safety review/ inspection as she handed it off to him?

The armorer says there was no live ammunition on the set, and does not know where the live round came from, or who put it in the gun. I guess the question is, when did she last check it, and when was she last supposed to check it?
'Rust' armorer has 'no idea' where live rounds came from, attorney says

 

[jjenny]

The armorer says there was no live ammunition on the set, and does not know where the live round came from, or who put it in the gun. I guess the question is, when did she last check it, and when was she last supposed to check it?
'Rust' armorer has 'no idea' where live rounds came from, attorney says

She claimed she checked that it contained dummies that morning. But dummies and live ammunition look similar to each other. So one needs to be careful and live ammunition shouldn't be on set. But sheriff says there was. And how could she not know there was live ammunition on the set?

 

[Dotta]

"Rust" Producers Made Mistakes Before Alec Baldwin Shooting, Crew Says

What a shame!

 

[Gardenista]

'Rust' Producers Were Warned About Dave Halls' Safety Issues - Variety

 

[Only4Justice]

All good questions and very disturbing.

Catching up.

IMO HG is in a boatload of trouble. We will see. Hopefully soon.

 

[mickey2942]

She claimed she checked that it contained dummies that morning. But dummies and live ammunition look similar to each other. So one needs to be careful and live ammunition shouldn't be on set. But sheriff says there was. And how could she not know there was live ammunition on the set?

Unless, we look at the chain, and the last person who had possession of the gun. Not accusing anyone. Just following the chain.

Nothing should be off of the table. No assumptions should be made, until everything has been ruled out.

 

[everybodhi]

My god, what a wretched, cold-blooded creature.

Ain't vulture capitalism grand?

Yeah.

‘Rust’ Shooting Death: Executive Producers Disavow Responsibility Over Accident – Deadline

Speaking on behalf of the now shuttered production, Allen Cheney made it known in a statement provided to the press Wednesday that he, along with Emily Salveson and her Streamline Global finance company, “received Executive Producer credit on the film Rust having no involvement with the physical and day to day production,” which is “consistent with financing partners across productions of all sizes.”

In the aftermath of the killing of Hutchins, many have tried to sort out who is financially responsible for the oversee of a production that allegedly cut a number of corners.

Rust was not bonded. Two of the three U.S. completion bond firms were approached about bonding the project, according to sources, but it didn’t happen. In one of the two cases, a potential financier made inquiries with one and stepped back from the film when the company declined to issue a bond.

Bonds are like super-insurance, with the bond company on the hook for costs if a film isn’t delivered in time and on budget. Productions also have traditional insurance, in Rust’s case said to be from Chubb..

Insurers (as well as banks and other financiers) generally prefer productions have completion bonds but will also insure without.

TMZ is reporting that the film’s insurance policy covers a maximum of $6 million for injury and death.

“By making film investment sensible and unemotional, Streamline Global naturally dissuades ego-based investors from spreading their toxicity in our industry,” added Salveson to Film Daily. Salveson is the granddaughter of Dr. Melvin Salveson, founder in the mid-1960s of the Electronics Currency Corporation, which was responsible for creating the system that facilitated the operation of MasterCard and Visa.

What to do? In such instances, perhaps it’s best to heed the advice of Salveson’s great grand uncle, whose wisdom she shares in her Film Daily Q&A: “My great-grand uncle Gerald Loeb told my dad, ‘Don’t fall in love with your investments,’ and he passed the same wisdom along to me. I find that when I look at my investments objectively and without emotion, I make better decisions that lead to higher profit and overall success.”

 

[jjenny]

Unless, we look at the chain, and the last person who had possession of the gun. Not accusing anyone. Just following the chain.

Nothing should be off of the table. No assumptions should be made, until everything has been ruled out.

She also claims that during lunch break, guns were locked up in a safe. So if guns were locked up in the safe, she would likely be the last person who had possession of the gun.

 

[oviedo]

HGR's in big, big trouble. IMO

As it should be IMO

 

[everybodhi]

She also claims that during lunch break, guns were locked up in a safe. So if guns were locked up in the safe, she would likely be the last person who had possession of the gun.

Earlier in the thread there was a link that said the Prop Master, Armorer, and some others had a key to the safe but it hasn't been determined who those "others" are. (Sorry I don't have time to search previous posts for the link right now)
I think this is probably a crucial part of the investigation.
Who all had access to the weapons and ammo?
ETA: another safety protocol broken that muddies this case and makes it hard for LE to narrow down accountability.

 

[Luna20]

"Rust" Producers Made Mistakes Before Alec Baldwin Shooting, Crew Says

“People who worked on three other projects from Thomasville Pictures said that the producers hired less-experienced workers for key jobs or would make them take on roles that they weren’t prepared for, piling on responsibilities in order to save time and money. That can lead to serious accidents, the crew members said, and on the Rust set, it was deadly”

 

[Luna20]

'Rust' Producers Were Warned About Dave Halls' Safety Issues - Variety

There seems to be a lot of the same things being mentioned.

“They put me in a position of danger,” the second crew member told Variety. “They’re getting the bottom-of-the-barrel people.”

 

[jjenny]

Earlier in the thread there was a link that said the Prop Master, Armorer, and some others had a key to the safe but it hasn't been determined who those "others" are. (Sorry I don't have time to search previous posts for the link right now)
I think this is probably a crucial part of the investigation.
Who all had access to the weapons and ammo?

In my opinion, it's much more likely she loaded it with live round by mistake. Live rounds look similar to dummies. Despite her claiming live rounds were not on the set, sheriff says they were. If live rounds and dummy rounds were in close proximity to each other, a live round could have been loaded by mistake. Which is why live rounds should never be on the set.