Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[shotgun09]

Anyone know who sb is?

Lol! This is like "who's on first?"

sb=somebody

 

[Luna20]

They were trying to cut costs and several people walked off set as a result of safety issues. It was a mess all around.

Some cost are not made to cut short. In this case a death is a very tangible reason not to.

 

[Luna20]

I notice from IMBD, Dave Halls has worked in films as an AD for 25 years, he's definiteley not a novice in the industry like the Armorer. I can't count all the films he's worked on that are listed there, probably a hundred.

Also he has many film credits from 2021 and 2020, whereas the Freedom's Path film he was fired from was filming in 2019. So he seems to have worked on 6 or more productions since that incident.

I think it would be useful to know exactly what the incident and error was, before linking it to this one.

I was referring to the armorer being a novice. Personally the combination of that and the previous AD firing would have sparked my attention in the safety arena.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I don’t either. They’re not supposed to be.

That being said, again, the actor cannot be responsible for prop safety unless they’re an expert assigned to that. Otherwise they’d be responsible to be a safety expert for every prop they use.

For example, let’s say they’re harnessed into a rig that carries them over the audience at some sort of show. The rig fails. They drop. They’re miraculously un-injured but they fall on an audience member’s head, and that person dies.

Is the actor responsible for making sure the harness was safe prior to using it? No.

The only way they’d be responsible is if they grossly deviated from how they were supposed to use it. Example? Baldwin decides to put his own “blanks” into the gun and practice with that. He injures someone. THEN he would be responsible.

Bottom line- not everyone is a gun owner. Not everyone is required to be an expert as to gun safety. Even if they are handed one to use. Moreover, the standard rules for gun safety do not apply on sets all the time- like never pointing a weapon at someone.

@gitana1, I'm so glad you and @PrairieWind are here to help explain the "legal" perspectives of all this! Helps immensely. Keep up the great work! : )

 

[Thinker22]

Anyone know who sb is?

On the other thread I've been following closely it's steven bertolino, but I don't think that applies here. Though it wouldn't surprise me if he makes a bizarre comment about this case.

 

[Thinker22]

Also Mommy and Daddy have a history of bailing her out ...

Thanks for that video. I reposted it here earlier today.

 

[Satchie]

They were trying to cut costs and several people walked off set as a result of safety issues. It was a mess all around.

So often, these days, 'safety' refers to Covid protocols.

My personal experience is that stress is often the reason why people make errors, including safety errors. It's not that people are thoroughly bad/utterly incompetent/guaranteed to mess up.

JMO

ETA: this would not apply to whoever put the live round in the gun...

 

[Luna20]

On the other thread I've been following closely it's steven bertolino, but I don't think that applies here. Though it wouldn't surprise me if he makes a bizarre comment about this case.

For sure it wouldn’t surprise me either. I only know about him from following that thread.

 

[Marysmith]

AB may be called into question for not being more cautious in his hiring of 2 individuals who have reason to pause. Her-a novice and the AD being fired for safety issues on a previous film. I think I would have instinctively checked myself. Was he trying to cut cost by hiring them?

If there was a surgeon in the OR that was previously fired for safety issues I would think those in the new OR would be cautiously aware.

I would be shocked if AB did any hiring personally…

 

[Luna20]

From an article that @Gardenista posted earlier today I noticed some things that I haven’t seen reported elsewhere yet.

“As the investigation delves into who was culpable in the tragedy that also injured Souza, several crewmembers have expressed to The Hollywood Reporter frustration specifically with the film’s producers, a ragtag group of six men who have produced only nine movies combined. THR reached out to the film’s publicist, who did not respond to a request for comment.

As with any film, the buck stops with the producers. They are the men and women in charge of hiring and to whom crewmembers can take complaints. What’s notable about Rust is that it featured a hodgepodge group with little to no experience in that capacity. Baldwin, who discharged the prop gun that killed Hutchins and injured Souza on Oct. 21, was one of the film’s six producers. (On a narrative feature film, “producer” is the top distinction, while “executive producer” is the next rung down. The opposite is true in TV and with documentaries.) Sources involved with the production say it wasn’t merely a vanity title, as is often the case with name actors and actresses, and that Baldwin had developed the project from scratch with Souza and shares “story by” credit. Still, it marked only the fifth time Baldwin has served as a producer on a narrative feature film during his 41-year acting career (Souza’s 2019 drama Crown Vic being his most recent outing)”

“What’s most shocking here is that there wasn’t a real producer to be found on this film,” says one veteran producer who has worked on high-profile indie films for more than two decades. “Typically, you might see a financier get a full producer credit, but you would have a veteran in there as well doing the job. When you’re a producer, you’ve gotta vet anyone you haven’t worked with previously and pounce when there’s a problem.

Rust gaffer Serge Svetnoy took his frustration with the producers one step further. In a candid Facebook post, he specifically singled them out: “To save a dime sometimes, you hire people who are not fully qualified for the complicated and dangerous job, and you risk the lives of the other people who are close and your lives as well. I understand that you always fight for the budget, but you cannot allow this to happen. There should always be at least one professional in each department who knows the job. It is an absolute must to avoid such a tragedy, like the tragedy with Halyna.”

Alec Baldwin Rust Movie Shooting: Inexperienced Producers to Blame? – The Hollywood Reporter

 

[Gardenista]

I would be shocked if AB did any hiring personally…

Me too, however we do know he encouraged the union people to go on strike and would know that would result in less experienced people being on the set.

I wonder if that will have any bearing on the case.

 

[MsMarple]

Like I've said before IMO the AD and armorer will probably be the people facing criminal charges. And of course whoever loaded that live bullet into the gun but unless someone admits it how would it be determined?

I do believe the bigger fight will be through civil litigation and/or settlements. I'd love to see the contracts that crew members signed, in particular the armorer and AD. IOW, what responsibilities did they agree to?

Depending on how hands on AB was in the day to day workings of the film, including the hiring and firing of crew and care of the props then IMO there could be some issues. As an actor at best I'd say he acted a bit carelessly but that wouldn't make him criminally liable as he wasn't trained in weapons handling.

I actually do want him to accept some blame but my being pissed off doesn't change the law. Someone posted last night that (IIRC) the film had about 6 million $$ insurance? If true then that's going to be a drop in the bucket IMO. Anyone know what happens regarding personal liability? Would civil suits be filed in New Mexico or California?

Anyway, here's an interesting article where a lawyer not connected to the film weighs in:

Fox Business spoke with personal injury attorney Christa Ramey (who is not working on the case) about the incident. "You would be suing Alec Baldwin's production company and its insurance company will defend. Alec Baldwin, the actor, will not be personally responsible for anything," she said.

"Baldwin and his production company would be sued for wrongful death, the loss of life for the cinematographer, and personal injury for the director that was injured. <snipped for 10% copyright>

She clarified, "You have to be physically injured or have a close familial relationship with the person that's injured. So it is likely true that [the extras and crew] have suffered PTSD. There might be workers compensation claims available to them under New Mexico law but not in civil liability."

Ramey said as one of the film's producers, Baldwin was "acting as an employer" and could be held responsible for the alleged unsafe working conditions on "Rust" that led to the fatal shooting.

"These safety complaints should have made their way up the food chain to as high as Alec Baldwin, then he could be potentially criminally responsible," she said.
'Rust' movie shooting: What Alec Baldwin the producer is liable for
More at the link.

Other opinions:
Alec Baldwin is credited as a producer on 'Rust.' What does that really mean?
'Rust' producer Alec Baldwin faces possible legal liability | kare11.com

 

[Gardenista]

‘Rust’ Shooting: Why Producers May Choose Bankruptcy Next – The Hollywood Reporter

 

[JaneEyre]

It is not about fairness. It’s about legalities and practicalities. If you expect actors to know and use gun safety rules with a prop gun then you must expect them to know and use safety rules when it comes to ANY dangerous prop they work with.

That’s not possible. It would mire production in legalities that would make filming impossible. That’s why experts are hired to deal with safety.

The world isn’t expected to know gun safety rules and be deemed legally negligent if they don’t. As an example, if someone leaves a loaded gun at home on a table and then goes out to dinner, and their teenage child has a couple friends come over, one of whom picks up the gun, is mistakenly told it is not loaded and accidentally discharges it, killing the other friend, the parents of the shooter will not be liable. Neither will the shooter himself. The child of the gun owner won’t even be liable.

The gun owner who negligently left a loaded gun on the table, is the only one who will be held liable.

The laws of negligence don’t require that everyone, child or adult, know gun safety rules. Only those who actually own the guns are required to have a level of expertise regarding their safety.

Thank you, Gitana, for your no-nonsense explanations and your wisdom.

 

[Warwick1991]

Actually, it IS possible to check. at 3:59 in the linked video it shows how to.

Big thanks to whomever posted this video in the first thread. I learned a lot from it. My only Colt revolver is a somewhat newer double action with a non-fixed cylinder.

There's no such thing as a fixed cylinder, as a previous poster had stated. They are all removable. The video you posted confirms exactly what I stated. The narrator pulls the hammer at half *advertiser censored*, and spins the cylinder to load. Her subsequent actions also involve rotating the cylinder.. The check she shows at 3:59 in her video involves a side view of the rims of the cartridges that are in the cylinder. This is not a realistic check for a live round, because an empty case can look the same as an unfired round.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

'Rust' Assistant Director Admits Gun Safety Lapses Before Fatal Shooting


According to a new search warrant, obtained by TMZ, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed told authorities the day of the shooting she had checked the ammo -- which she called the "dummies," meaning they were not live rounds. She added there were never live rounds on the set.

She went on to say the gun was locked up in a safe in a prop truck during the lunch break and taken out shortly before the fatal scene. The implication -- she's saying the gun appeared safe to her, because it wasn't messed with it during lunch. She did, however, say there were a few people who had access to the safe.

BBM

1) How did she know the gun wasn't messed with if other people had access to the safe?

2) "Appearing" safe and being safe are two very different things. The difference between life and death. Sounds like maybe she never re-checked the gun when she removed it from the safe after lunch?

3) IF (and that's a huge IF) multiple people had access to the safe then the guns were never really secure.

4) Was anything else stored in the safe other than guns and ammo and if yes, WHY?

5) Why would anyone else have access to a gun safe other than the armorer?

Someone is lying. I have a really good idea who.

 

[jjenny]

Me too, however we do know he encouraged the union people to go on strike and would know that would result in less experienced people being on the set.

I wonder if that will have any bearing on the case.

Union people who left were the camera crew. Not the ones responsible for set safety.

 

[jjenny]

Well, armorer also claimed there were no live ammunition on the set. Yet police believe they recovered live ammunition (they have to be checked by forensics first to be officially declared live ammunition, but I am sure police know one when they see it). So either she was unware of the presence of live bullets or she wasn't telling the truth about live bullets being on the set when police asked her.

 

[RANCH]

Union people who left were the camera crew. Not the ones responsible for set safety.

Would a remote camera setup be considered as being part of set safety?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Yes,and I thought "cold gun" was supposed to indicate a gun with no rounds at all,live or otherwise?, so if he saw any rounds in the gun at all when she spun the barrel,why did he call "cold gun"?. Maybe I am confusing myself with all the terms though

Agreed, all the terms are extremely confusing!

So, AD Dave Halls says he picked up a gun from the cart and had HGR check it and/or he kinda, sorta checked it himself .

The SAME Speed-Demon Asst. Director who scoffs and rolls his eyes at any safety meeting and ignores safety protocols?!

Sounds totally out of character for Halls to check with anyone about anything, never mind a gun.
He's lying. JMO