All About Chloroform #3

[Carolina Girl]

I heard last night either in NG or Dr. Drew that the bottle at the crime scene, with the syringe inside, tested out that chloroform was in the syringe. Has that information ever been released? Is that true?
Thanks in advance.

 

[concentric]

I thought of that as well x files. I wondered if maybe she chloroformed her to put her out and then right after put the duct tape on her. I didn't want to post it because the thought is just horrible that that poor baby would be out of and possibly feel what is going on but not be able to movie bc of the chloroform acting like anesthetic. The thought of it is just sick but it does make you wonder.

And if Caylee was semi-conscious or conscious during those moments, it would definitely add to the heinous nature of the crime.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I heard last night either in NG or Dr. Drew that the bottle at the crime scene, with the syringe inside, tested out that chloroform was in the syringe. Has that information ever been released? Is that true? Thanks in advance.

The syringe contained testosterone, ethanol, chloroform, and water.

 

[countzero]

Guess I didn't explain myself enough, sorry.

I understand enough about chloroform now to get me in trouble, thanks to Val. I never did believe ICA cooked chloroform. I don't believe she used it on Caylee. Now if the SA has evidence she purchased it, I will change my mind in a NYC nano second.

But I cannot explain why the high concentration levels of chloroform either and I want to know that but haven't heard HOW it came to be. And if it was stated in court when I missed it, I need a link.

Bad form I know. Well I have my answer now that JA has given it. As JA so well said today why Caylee's death was a homicide the duct tape was the murder weapon. Dr G's explanation as to how she felt Caylee's death was a homicide was also spot on. Chloroform did not enter into it. It was the duct tape. Which is what I have believed all along.

JA may or may not expand further on the chloroform, but it doesn't matter now. The duct tape was the weapon of choice by ICA.

 

[TwiceIrish]

Bad form I know. Well I have my answer now that JA has given it. As JA so well said today why Caylee's death was a homicide the duct tape was the murder weapon. Dr G's explanation as to how she felt Caylee's death was a homicide was also spot on. Chloroform did not enter into it. It was the duct tape. Which is what I have believed all along.

JA may or may not expand further on the chloroform, but it doesn't matter now. The duct tape was the weapon of choice by ICA.

ITA, and posted as such earlier in this thread. Dr. Vass testified to chloroform being released as part of decomposition. Another poster pointed out they heard Dr. Vass state it to be manufactured chloroform and I deferred to their ears as mine are broken (and I rely on my information from closed-captioning) but still feel he explained the high level could be explained by the decomosition fluids in the trunk.

jmo...

 

[Tuffy]

I'm no expert but I thought that it takes some time before drugs can be detected in hair.

It takes about two weeks to detect in the standard hair follicle test.

 

[Tuffy]

ITA, and posted as such earlier in this thread. Dr. Vass testified to chloroform being released as part of decomposition. Another poster pointed out they heard Dr. Vass state it to be manufactured chloroform and I deferred to their ears as mine are broken (and I rely on my information from closed-captioning) but still feel he explained the high level could be explained by the decomosition fluids in the trunk.

jmo...

I don't think Dr. Vass said that the high levels of chloroform could have come from decomp.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1394940/Casey-Anthony-trial-Expert-shockingly-high-levels-chloroform-car.html

He said chloroform can be a natural by-product of decomposition, but he told the court it would not produce the levels found in Anthony's 1998 Pontiac Sunfire. He said: 'The chloroform was shockingly high, unusually high.'

 

[Quiche]

Didn't Dr. Vass even suggest the manufacture of chloroform in that trunk?

 

[Tuffy]

Didn't Dr. Vass even suggest the manufacture of chloroform in that trunk?

He said it was "manufactured chloroform." I think he is saying that to distinguish it from naturally occurring chloroform, such as chloroform resulting from decomp.

He said scrapings taken from the vehicle's wheel well showed up acetic acid, which was of interest not only because it results naturally from the process of decay 'but also because it's a by-product of manufactured chloroform.'

http://motherswhokillchildren.blogspot.com/2011/06/filicide-florida-casey-anthonys-trial_07.html

 

[chicklet]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not but chloroform is used to make injection heroin from some other opiates. This is most likely what the syringe and strange liquid in the gatorade bottle was for. It really makes no logical sense for anyone to use chloroform to knock a child out when something like Nyquil or Benadryl would work as well. I've always thought the speculation that chloroform was used was really over the top. I don't doubt KC and a boyfriend made chloroform but I think they were using it to make heroin or extract substances from pills, morphine or methadone to make a pure opiate that could be injected. I don't think the chloroform is related to Caylee at all.

On a related note...acetic acid is something that can also be used in this process.

 

[PeteyGirl]

I'm with the others who don't think ICA could get it together to actually make chloroform. But I can imagine someone else making it FOR her. When I worked in chemical dependency we'd get a few young men every year who experimented with making their own substances, mostly combinations of existing drugs.

Heck, making methamphetamine is apparently simple enough. Young people find a new thing to get high off of about every six months, right? Now it's "bath salts"?

ICA obviously got some chloroform, but she didn't make it. Maybe she didn't even obtain it to use on Caylee, but as part of a sexual fantasy inspired by RM.

 

[txsvicki]

The trial is really confusing me. Probably because of never being able to watch the entire testimony of some. Was it ever explained just how much chloroform was in the trunk and not just what was in the air ? You'd think that the jury would need some explanation of whether it's thought that the stuff was on a rag, spilled all over, or actually being sprayed into the air and HOW MUCH might have been there. I've always thought that it was wicked from a bottle or sprayed in then the trunk closed, after the initial knocking out with some on a rag. If there was a plot to be made a victim she needed something to claim that she was totally knocked out, of course without really being injured. If she wanted to harm the child, there's no way benadryl would keep anyone being suffocated from waking up and wouldn't work into the plan either. Something to cause unconsciousness like during surgery would be needed.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I don't have a sense of quantity or proportion of chloroform found in the trunk that I can put into a meaningful mental picture. I know we've heard that there were very high concentrations, unexpectedly high, abnormal, etc. But what would that mean in real terms?

Will one or two drops of chloroform in the trunk get you these results? Or, is it something like pouring out a pint into the carpet?

Do the expert witnesses have a way of expressing this in these terms?

 

[Pink Panther]

I don't have a sense of quantity or proportion of chloroform found in the trunk that I can put into a meaningful mental picture. I know we've heard that there were very high concentrations, unexpectedly high, abnormal, etc. But what would that mean in real terms?

Will one or two drops of chloroform in the trunk get you these results? Or, is it something like pouring out a pint into the carpet?

Do the expert witnesses have a way of expressing this in these terms?

Does it really matter? Chloroform showed up again and again in various tests done by different agencies. It is a potentially lethal substance. It's not available for purchase at retail. KC looked up how to make it 84 times two months before her daughter died.

moo

 

[Hot Dogs]

It matters to me because I have a curious mind for science. It's ok if you are different in that respect.

 

[chicklet]

I'm with the others who don't think ICA could get it together to actually make chloroform. But I can imagine someone else making it FOR her. When I worked in chemical dependency we'd get a few young men every year who experimented with making their own substances, mostly combinations of existing drugs.

Heck, making methamphetamine is apparently simple enough. Young people find a new thing to get high off of about every six months, right? Now it's "bath salts"?

ICA obviously got some chloroform, but she didn't make it. Maybe she didn't even obtain it to use on Caylee, but as part of a sexual fantasy inspired by RM.

Hard core opiate addicts sometimes use chloroform to extract and isolate the opiate in Oxycontin and even Methadone. Some even use it to make injection opiates from poppy pods and stems. The substance in the gatorade bottle actually looks like that was what it was used for. The majority of people on this site are most likely going to ignore that, though, because they want KC to be the worst monster they can imagine. I know many here have followed this case closely and it means a lot to people, but there is an overwhelming bias that exists. That is why what I am pointing out is being ignored even though it makes perfect sense. *shrug*

 

[Solomisskitty]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not but chloroform is used to make injection heroin from some other opiates. This is most likely what the syringe and strange liquid in the gatorade bottle was for. It really makes no logical sense for anyone to use chloroform to knock a child out when something like Nyquil or Benadryl would work as well. I've always thought the speculation that chloroform was used was really over the top. I don't doubt KC and a boyfriend made chloroform but I think they were using it to make heroin or extract substances from pills, morphine or methadone to make a pure opiate that could be injected. I don't think the chloroform is related to Caylee at all.

On a related note...acetic acid is something that can also be used in this process.

Interesting info. Note that when ICA found out that Caylee's remains had been found, she asked LE for a sedative. When asked if she had ever taken that on the outside, she stated she had only had muscle relaxers after an injury. Come on now. She's a high school dropout, not working most of the time, stealing money every chance she gets, and partying hardy. We already know THC (weed) was a given (IMOO less of a detriment than the alcohol) but she was running with a party crowd and stronger drugs are not outside the realm.

 

[RANCH]

It matters to me because I have a curious mind for science. It's ok if you are different in that respect.

I agree with you Hot Dog. I'm a little curious about the same thing.

Pink Panther you make a good point that the chloroform keeps showing up in all the tests that were run. It should not have been there at all if you ask me. If Baez can show that chloroform will form from common household products in a meaningful amount,he should pursue that as a career path,suing companies for harming people.

 

[chicklet]

Interesting info. Note that when ICA found out that Caylee's remains had been found, she asked LE for a sedative. When asked if she had ever taken that on the outside, she stated she had only had muscle relaxers after an injury. Come on now. She's a high school dropout, not working, now running with a party crowd. We already know THC (weed) was a given (IMOO less of a detriment than the alcohol) but she was running with a party crowd and stronger drugs are not outside the realm.

Thank you for responding! I had a dear friend who sadly got addicted to pain pills and died about 5 years ago. He lived over 2500 miles away from me but used to call me at all hours completely messed up and talking about all these kinds of things. He was able to hide his addiction for many years from his family. His parents didn't even know he was addicted until he was an all out junkie who was playing around with the chemical aspect of drugs. It's very scary stuff. It was entirely possible that KC's "club" friends and boyfriends were into this sort of thing. Not sure if LE looked for any ties to methadone clinics, but if they didn't they should have.

 

[Solomisskitty]

Thank you for responding! I had a dear friend who sadly got addicted to pain pills and died about 5 years ago. He lived over 2500 miles away from me but used to call me at all hours completely messed up and talking about all these kinds of things. He was able to hide his addiction for many years from his family. His parents didn't even know he was addicted until he was an all out junkie who was playing around with the chemical aspect of drugs. It's very scary stuff. It was entirely possible that KC's "club" friends and boyfriends were into this sort of thing. Not sure if LE looked for any ties to methadone clinics, but if they didn't they should have.

Thank you for sharing...
Regarding ICA and her lifestyle, I doubt her partying buds would rat her out on this issue (IF this is indeed the case) because they would be ratting themselves out simultaneously.