All About Chloroform #3

[LinasK]

So what I get from this is either KC mixed up a batch to knock out Caylee or Cindy did to clean up the smell.

Hey KC here ya go.

Dad killed your baby and Mom cleaned up after him.

I still think Casey could have obtained it without having to make it up...

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

This is shocking to me. These are all common household items.

ETA: I mistakenly thought acetone was nail polish remover. Hubby informed me pure acetone is not a common household item. I stand corrected, but am still surprised chloroform is comprised of only 3 ingredients, two of which are in most households.

it's not as simple as we think... but still scary that it's possible!
i actually watched a couple videos (curiosity lol) and it looks rather complicated.

from what i've gathered.. you have to "cook" the ingredients in a a bottle that sits in a tub of ice water (to cool it down) and when it's done.. the chloroform is at the bottom and acetone sits on the top..
there's a lot of funneling and extracting involved.
this is where that syringe that was found might come in..
chloroform making is complicated.. so instead of funneling, she could've extracted the stuff at the bottom with the syringe... maybe?



gosh... i hope i never get into a situation where my computer gets confiscated.. omg everything i've viewed thru out the course of this trial would make me look like a freak! some was involuntary... you don't know what you're clicking some times.
i was reading on the jonbenet forum last night and searched some of the things people were talking about and the one site took me to autopsy pics and it wasn't labeled with a warning. i wish i never would've clicked.. i didn't sleep the entire night :'(

 

[Just Jayla]

it's not as simple as we think... but still scary that it's possible!
i actually watched a couple videos (curiosity lol) and it looks rather complicated.

from what i've gathered.. you have to "cook" the ingredients in a a bottle that sits in a tub of ice water (to cool it down) and when it's done.. the chloroform is at the bottom and acetone sits on the top..
there's a lot of funneling and extracting involved.
this is where that syringe that was found might come in..
chloroform making is complicated.. so instead of funneling, she could've extracted the stuff at the bottom with the syringe... maybe?

gosh... i hope i never get into a situation where my computer gets confiscated.. omg everything i've viewed thru out the course of this trial would make me look like a freak! some was involuntary... you don't know what you're clicking some times.
i was reading on the jonbenet forum last night and searched some of the things people were talking about and the one site took me to autopsy pics and it wasn't labeled with a warning. i wish i never would've clicked.. i didn't sleep the entire night :'(

We don't really get nugget gold in Virginia, we have ultra fine gold that has to be processed out of its ore....So when I was on my Yukon Cornelius kick, I tried to make aqua regia in a bucket in my backyard. Seemed as easy as chloroform, even found online instructions.
Not easy, didn't work, we were scared of the bucket.
And unlike KC, I graduated from high school and would realize that hiding a murder victim down the steet from my house is a stupid idea, so my intelligence should be held in a slightly higher esteem than hers. If it's me vs. KC in a "Manufacturing Volatile Chemicals" contest, I could figure it out before she even stops preening.

I digress. She could've tried, but I've always thought that even if it was not a good batch of chloroform, the fumes and the duct tape wrapped around the head would've worked anyway.

 

[Curious Me]

But Casey is a non-chemist is what JB's going to say. :floorlaugh:

 

[katydid23]

If Cindy had used it to clean the trunk we would have heard about it already. And as a matter of fact she has already said on record that she never used it or had any or knew of any chloroform. I am actually kind of surprised she didn't try that story though. Could have been a perfect out for them.

 

[Uicipher]

it's not as simple as we think... but still scary that it's possible!
i actually watched a couple videos (curiosity lol) and it looks rather complicated.

from what i've gathered.. you have to "cook" the ingredients in a a bottle that sits in a tub of ice water (to cool it down) and when it's done.. the chloroform is at the bottom and acetone sits on the top..
there's a lot of funneling and extracting involved.
this is where that syringe that was found might come in..
chloroform making is complicated.. so instead of funneling, she could've extracted the stuff at the bottom with the syringe... maybe?

This video is on how to make Lab grade chloroform. This is much different than the "household" quality stuff we're talking about. Notice that the tech is using solid Calcium Chlorate instead of %5 bleach solution. This will make the reaction proceed much faster (and hotter).

Now if you were to just add some bleach to some acetone, you would still get chloroform (and probably poison yourself in the process), just less, and less pure; isn't complicated.

 

[Uicipher]

We don't really get nugget gold in Virginia, we have ultra fine gold that has to be processed out of its ore....So when I was on my Yukon Cornelius kick, I tried to make aqua regia in a bucket in my backyard. Seemed as easy as chloroform, even found online instructions.
Not easy, didn't work, we were scared of the bucket.

Making aqua regia is easy, if you have lab grade chemicals and a decent lab.
Making home-made aqua regia could easily kill you, good thing you didn't go near the bucket.
Just curious how did you get the concentrated nitric acid? it was a royal pain to get when I was in my "armature chemistry" phase.

 

[Snaz]

KC may not have actually made any chloroform, but I think she certainly looked into it. Maybe she decided it was too difficult and went another route....

 

[MsRyber]

Maybe she decided it was too difficult and went another route....

That is a way more "KC" scenario. But we've all been surprised before. The girl can keep up a lie for years, which most people would find "difficult".
The syringe makes things very interesting.

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html

I just wanted to add this evidence slideshow..Picture 51 shows the searches on the computer...
search on "how to make chloraform"(spelled wrong in the searches) and searches on, acetone, peroxide and alcohol

 

[TallyHo]

But Casey is a non-chemist is what JB's going to say. :floorlaugh:

What he would actually say would be that "Casey is a non-Physicist"!!! :floorlaugh:

Sorry, could not resist that!!!:innocent:

 

[JWG]

If casey was the one that cleaned the car. Lets say she took it back to the house. sprayed the entire interior of the trunk with commercial strength pesticide to kill bugs and maggots. Then used a separate cleaner to steam clean the rest out. Then closed up the trunk, still soaking wet, and went on her way. Thinking that that would be enough to get it clean. But it being florida sun, moist hot humid environment. Could that have caused the high concentration of chloroform?? I just dont know where this girl wouldve found chloroform

If KC cleaned the car and that cleaning process produced chloroform, the most likely suspects in my mind would be the use of bleach and isopropyl
alcohol. A distant second to the use of the alcohol would be ethanol (such as vodka). I find it unlikely that KC would use something with acetone or butanone as those are used more as solvents and not household cleaners.

Not being a chemist I cannot tell you how much chloroform would be produced or what other compounds would be formed as a result of those two items, but it does appear possible to inadvertently create some chloroform from those two chemicals. The sodium from the sodium hypochlorite in the bleach would need to go somewhere, and there was sodium found in the LIBS analysis. However, there was no mention that the amount of sodium appeared high relative to the amount of the other inorganic materials, so it is unclear to me whether or not the sodium would result from chloroform formation due to bleach.

Of course, the defense cannot use Cindy or George as the stooge upon which to lay blame for cleaning with bleach and alcohol. The depositions are done and they both denied cleaning with anything. Cindy sprayed with Febreze, and that's about it. No, the only person they could point to would be KC, and that would beg the question as to why she was cleaning the trunk in the first place.

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

This video is on how to make Lab grade chloroform. This is much different than the "household" quality stuff we're talking about. Notice that the tech is using solid Calcium Chlorate instead of %5 bleach solution. This will make the reaction proceed much faster (and hotter).

Now if you were to just add some bleach to some acetone, you would still get chloroform (and probably poison yourself in the process), just less, and less pure; isn't complicated.

if regular clorox was mixed with acetone, would the acetone still sit at the top and chloroform sit at the bottom?
i really don't want to have to test it :/

regardless, i still think this could be the reason for the syringe..and could be important... and could also possibly go along with an accidental death theory... she gave her too much or it wasn't the right concoction.
as much sense as that would make.. i still can't see someone wanting to sedate their child with chloroform... unless they planned to kill them and wanted to make it less painful.
like Christina Marie Riggs
she gave her kids antidepressants to make them sleep so she could inject them with potassium chloride.. she wanted to make their death easier (in her mind) http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/riggs629.htm

 

[Uicipher]

If you mixed bleach and acetone you would have 3 layers, acetone on top, water in the middle, chloroform at the bottom, you don't need to test it out, just look up their densities at room temperature. Separating liquids to Reasonable purity is not difficult to do, try it out with water and oil, or water and acetone.
I honestly think the syringe was a coincidence, it sounded like there was a lot of random trash back there. Riggs doesn't strike me as the Casey type, Casey partied, Riggs attempted suicide. Different people, different MO.

 

[Just Jayla]

Making aqua regia is easy, if you have lab grade chemicals and a decent lab.
Making home-made aqua regia could easily kill you, good thing you didn't go near the bucket.
Just curious how did you get the concentrated nitric acid? it was a royal pain to get when I was in my "armature chemistry" phase.

We didn't exactly use nitric acid, we used potassium nitrate and some form of hydrochloric acid, both were from a home improvement store-blaming that idea on hubby...Prolly why it didn't work, we weren't using any concentrated chemicals by any stretch of the imagination-We were just broke and dopey-with gold fever! Thank goodness we had a big, big yard, that sucker stayed outside and far away from the house.

ETA-Like us, KC probably did not get high grade materials, I am thinking nail polish remover and bleach?

ETAA-Nowadays I just pan the Rapidan River, still some flakes and big ole pieces of gold-bearing quartz (still no nugs) here and there...Nowadays KC sits in jail, in case y'all needed that update

 

[TallyHo]

We didn't exactly use nitric acid, we used potassium nitrate and some form of hydrochloric acid, both were from a home improvement store-blaming that idea on hubby...Prolly why it didn't work, we weren't using any concentrated chemicals by any stretch of the imagination-We were just broke and dopey-with gold fever! Thank goodness we had a big, big yard, that sucker stayed outside and far away from the house.

ETA-Like us, KC probably did not get high grade materials, I am thinking nail polish remover and bleach?

ETAA-Nowadays I just pan the Rapidan River, still some flakes and big ole pieces of gold-bearing quartz (still no nugs) here and there...Nowadays KC sits in jail, in case y'all needed that update

I wondered about her possibly using bleach and nail polish remover (contains acetone). This may be totally off the subject, but have any of you ever used the non acetone nail polish remover?? Talk about something that STINKS (although not like decomp )

 

[ZsaZsa]

If KC cleaned the car and that cleaning process produced chloroform, the most likely suspects in my mind would be the use of bleach and isopropyl
alcohol. A distant second to the use of the alcohol would be ethanol (such as vodka). I find it unlikely that KC would use something with acetone or butanone as those are used more as solvents and not household cleaners.

Not being a chemist I cannot tell you how much chloroform would be produced or what other compounds would be formed as a result of those two items, but it does appear possible to inadvertently create some chloroform from those two chemicals. The sodium from the sodium hypochlorite in the bleach would need to go somewhere, and there was sodium found in the LIBS analysis. However, there was no mention that the amount of sodium appeared high relative to the amount of the other inorganic materials, so it is unclear to me whether or not the sodium would result from chloroform formation due to bleach.

Of course, the defense cannot use Cindy or George as the stooge upon which to lay blame for cleaning with bleach and alcohol. The depositions are done and they both denied cleaning with anything. Cindy sprayed with Febreze, and that's about it. No, the only person they could point to would be KC, and that would beg the question as to why she was cleaning the trunk in the first place.

How is the defense going to explain the two searches for (1) Chloroform and (2) How to make Chloroform, on the home PC both at times when GA and CA were at work, and then the presence of high levels of Chloroform in the car.
That would be a huge coincidence wouldn't it, if ICA were not the one....

 

[Baznme]

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/new...arch-for-how-to-make-chloroform-was-uncovered

a must read.

 

[ZsaZsa]

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/new...arch-for-how-to-make-chloroform-was-uncovered

a must read.

Thanks. I bet the SA knows where ICA's phone was pinging from at that time of day..

 

[Intermezzo]

Thanks. I bet the SA knows where ICA's phone was pinging from at that time of day..

When Cindy chimed in she looked up "chlorophyll" to explain the searches for chloroform...LE had checked both Cindy and Georges work schedules for that time period they knew she was at work that day and at that time and I believe so was George.