Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #32

[Mani]

In response to someone yesterday asking about Allison going for a walk - this article states that GBC changed the times/dates and his lawyer could not clarify...........this was so confusing as the MSM would change the date/time daily and each article I read said something different to the last. IMO
This must have put the wind up QPS right from the start! MOO

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...results-released/story-e6freoof-1226372823158

It is alleged her husband, Gerard Baden-Clay, initially said she went for a walk the night of April 19, but then said it was the morning of April 20.

Neither his lawyer Darren Mahony nor police yesterday would clarify which was correct. BBM

Various police media releases say she was last seen at her home on Brookfield Rd in Brisbane's west about 10pm on April 19 "wearing grey tracksuit pants and running shoes".
Mr Baden-Clay told family and friends that she went for a walk and didn't return. In one appeal for help from the public, police identified the time-frame that she went missing as "Thursday evening or early Friday morning"

 

[minni]

there is a show on the Crime Investigation channel this morning called "ScoutMasters Secret": 'they believed and practiced the boy scout oath anc carried out their promise to obey without question' !!!!

I think I might have a squizzey!!

 

[Kruger]

Someone must be funding him fully IMO. A second cousin of mine got himself into trouble as a young lad, and got in with the wrong crowd. Got involved in car stealing and ended up 'carrying the can' for a few of the others who were as much involved as he was, if not more, but a lot smarter. His family engaged one of the best lawyers and basically if there was any question of difficulty paying fees the lawyer required money paid up front. My relatives family were not well-off but had to put money in a trust account in advance to cover upcoming, agreed, timeframes. Because they didnt have unlimited money they had to discuss in detail the minimum they could afford and the time for the lawers jail visits and essential court appearances was worked out. So the amount of time that could be afforded was very carefully mapped out and the family only had the bare minimum of time spent by the lawyer to maximise getting his expertise but minimise any unnecessary time. I and a close family member helped out with some research and other info they provided to the lawyer to save money and time.

The thing is with criminal law in a lot of cases there is not a lot of money around. If you really want to make money don't go into criminal law. So many other areas of law, while expensive too, have elements of gain for the client. it could be civil action, suing someone and winning, perhaps property law, estate law etc. Even divorce law can mean property settlements and at least the clients may ultimately have some cash once joint assets are sold.

But in criminal law so many of the clients have no money to start with, or if they had any it disappears very quickly. If they dont get bail and can't work, their income stream is cut off, or they might lose their business. Robbery crimes usually involve people who dont have much spare cash, they rob to live or to sell items to pay for drugs etc - only a small proportion end up living a life of luxury with lots of money in the bank. The big drug lords who make pots of dough rarely get caught, it's their lower level pushers who take the fall.

So basically if you are a criminal and want a good lawyer you've got to have loads of cash or someone else has to fund you. Most criminal lawyers dont just do whatever time is asked and then send a bill at the end of the month and hope it gets paid.

I wonder if its Cranna vibe? He was very generous in putting up $50k for bail..

 

[linette]

Someone must be funding him fully IMO. A second cousin of mine got himself into trouble as a young lad, and got in with the wrong crowd. Got involved in car stealing and ended up 'carrying the can' for a few of the others who were as much involved as he was, if not more, but a lot smarter. His family engaged one of the best lawyers and basically if there was any question of difficulty paying fees the lawyer required money paid up front. My relatives family were not well-off but had to put money in a trust account in advance to cover upcoming, agreed, timeframes. Because they didnt have unlimited money they had to discuss in detail the minimum they could afford and the time for the lawers jail visits and essential court appearances was worked out. So the amount of time that could be afforded was very carefully mapped out and the family only had the bare minimum of time spent by the lawyer to maximise getting his expertise but minimise any unnecessary time. I and a close family member helped out with some research and other info they provided to the lawyer to save money and time.

The thing is with criminal law in a lot of cases there is not a lot of money around. If you really want to make money don't go into criminal law. So many other areas of law, while expensive too, have elements of gain for the client. it could be civil action, suing someone and winning, perhaps property law, estate law etc. Even divorce law can mean property settlements and at least the clients may ultimately have some cash once joint assets are sold.

But in criminal law so many of the clients have no money to start with, or if they had any it disappears very quickly. If they dont get bail and can't work, their income stream is cut off, or they might lose their business. Robbery crimes usually involve people who dont have much spare cash, they rob to live or to sell items to pay for drugs etc - only a small proportion end up living a life of luxury with lots of money in the bank. The big drug lords who make pots of dough rarely get caught, it's their lower level pushers who take the fall.

So basically if you are a criminal and want a good lawyer you've got to have loads of cash or someone else has to fund you. Most criminal lawyers dont just do whatever time is asked and then send a bill at the end of the month and hope it gets paid.

Thankyou very much for your reply. Makes alot of sense. It'd be so expensive that any money would be eaten up very quickly.
Someone I went to school with was charged and found guilty of murder {years later was let out because he was innocent} and I know his parents lost everything they owned to pay for his legal fees. Luckilly the lawyers etc who ended up getting him out of jail did it for free because the evidence against him was NOTHING. A huge stuff up. He has said that when/if he gets compensation he will be buying his parents a new home and other things that they lost trying to help him.
Thanks again for your reply

 

[Mani]

In regards to ABC's body having washed down, at 00:51 of this video, Det Ainsworth says they think she was washed down.

Husband 'devastated' after body confirmed as missing woman - YouTube

BJS - good one!

 

[Fuskier]

Hi and Welcome...

You have a really good point that I have never thought of. I thought those pics of the toys in the back looked fake, who takes a crate of naked dolls out with them.

It did seem all too neat, almost staged. Most busy Mums of 3, each with afterschool activities, friends, etc would have bits of items around the car to be vacuumed on the weekend, not mid-week. The five year old probably would have a booster seat for daily travel. The younger two girls would, most likely, play with their dolls and have them in their bedroom. I doubt she would have the time to meticuluously clean the car like that seen in the photos. All a bit staged in my opinion. MOO

 

[Woof]

I wonder if its Cranna vibe? He was very generous in putting up $50k for bail..

Those Crannas have been really sucked in, haven't they?

 

[Mountain Misst]

Bad dog Woof! Bad dog! Was typing that on a tiny phone in a room full of distractions. What I should have said was 'maybe they are looking for another car'. But honestly, I don't know. The reported sightings of those two cars, and the Captiva with blood in, may rule out the car I know. But still, reporting that car to Crimestoppers was what needed to be done. The fact that the Captiva is still impounded makes that the logical explanation.

However, I am still sleuthing that 5ETTLE car, plus one other.

Sorry for the stuff up. This doggie is going to the doghouse with tail between legs.:banghead:

Photo of NBC in front of a white 4wd had a "d" on the end I think, as in "SETTLED" or "5ETTLED". Thought the name was related to the real estate term "settled" as in "sold and I have the cash in my hands". Trust am not throwing in a red herring my canine friend.

 

[Maigret]

Photo of NBC in front of a white 4wd had a "d" on the end I think, as in "SETTLED" or "5ETTLED". Thought the name was related to the real estate term "settled" as in "sold and I have the cash in my hands". Trust am not throwing in a red herring my canine friend.

Pretty sure that's the Prado that had the ding (since fixed) I thought someone here said it was for sale

But it can't be as it is leased

 

[Fuskier]

This is the map you're referring to Dr. Watson. It was reported that the screams were heard by people at Rees Way (don't have a link at the moment)...

MAKARA: Thank you for your excellent maps etc. They provide visuals which helps ground our sleuthing.:goodpost:

 

[minni]

It did seem all too neat, almost staged. Most busy Mums of 3, each with afterschool activities, friends, etc would have bits of items around the car to be vacuumed on the weekend, not mid-week. The five year old probably would have a booster seat for daily travel. The younger two girls would, most likely, play with their dolls and have them in their bedroom. I doubt she would have the time to meticuluously clean the car like that seen in the photos. All a bit staged in my opinion. MOO

just quietly, i got in my car yesterday and thought, 'oh my god, what a pigsty' haha there was a macca's coffee cup and a can of fanta in the drink holders.....wet tshirts and shorts from taking the boys to the beach OVER A WEEK AGO, sand everywhere and dog hairs too!! plus a bunch of other stuff!! looks like I have some cleaning to do (after WS of course!)

 

[Fuskier]

...GBC is not a small guy, and could have put ABC - wrapped or otherwise - over his shoulder to move her...

Good point. Also appears reasonably fit.

 

[bearbear]

Haven't been here much lately but popped in tonight and saw the screams near Rafting Ground Road being discussed so thought the link below would be of interest as it maps the location at 1.02 in the clip. I also made up a clearer image showing the points of interest including the location where two mounted police were seen entering the area approximately behind where the screams were heard - this search was around midday Sat 21st April. I will load photo if I work out how!

Missing mother - YouTube

in this clip the ses confirm items have been found and handed in to police, so did they actually find items of interest in the scream zone?

 

[Fuskier]

... It doesnt make sense does it? ... Durness St out to Brookfield via Rafting Ground Road. It is quicker, it is more discreet. Some unknown took them via Kenmore...

IMO schemers develop plans to deflect and cover their activities. Maybe they wanted it to appear like 'some unknown'? Remember, you and fellow websleuthers carry the 'mindset' of normal, law abiding, local citizens enquiring when you approach these roads etc. But the 'mindset' of murderers wanting to cover their tracks would be quite different. They are murderers and I suspect much more scheming involved. The alleged murderer and his alleged accomplice(s) knew this area well, and hypothetically drew on scouting & army skills training. IMO they would avoid Rafting Ground Rd, not risk their vehicles being seen there, if screams attracted attention from their earlier activities. My opinion only, not fact.

 

[DunnoZo]

Think I worked it out

have been searching for ages, can anyone find the link that actually says where on Rafting Ground Road the screams were heard? Marlywings,thanks, I've looked through the links you provided, and Makara, your maps and opinions are greatly appreciated, but RG Rd. is long,& all I could find is a neighbor who said she didn't "think" it was Allison... Can't find an exact location.

p.s. I am realising that I am not a good sleuth, and should not be a detective if I ever grow up.

 

[minni]

IMO schemers develop plans to deflect and cover their activities. Maybe they wanted it to appear like 'some unknown'? Remember the mentality of you and fellow websleuthers seems a local citizens enquiring one when you approach these roads etc. But the mentality of murderers wanting to cover their tracks would be quite different. I suspect much more scheming involved. The alleged murderer and his alleged accomplice(s) knew this area well, and hypothetically drawing on scouting & army skills. IMO they would avoid Rafting Ground Rd, not risk their vehicles being seen there if screams attracted attention from their earlier activities. My opinion only, not fact.

thats a good point Fuskier, and actually it wasnt what I meant!! As I said yesterday my posts have been erratic as I have been away, and just been catching up and glimpsing posts here and there, and as a result I havent been making myself very clear, sorry for anyone reading my posts :waitasec:

what I should have said was, 'there is some 'unknown variable' that caused him to take what seems to us at least, an unlikely route to get to either his father, or/and to Anstead. at least, the reasoning is 'unknown' to us.

Your point, is a good one, if they were planning to make it look like a 'random' person killed her, they would have staged the scene to deflect away from themselves/himself? IMO definitely. But the thing these dopey clumsy killers never seem to get, is that for every single move they make to cover their tracks or try to mislead police, they are actually painting a picture and giving more and more pieces of the puzzle away.

brainiacs

 

[Woof]

Photo of NBC in front of a white 4wd had a "d" on the end I think, as in "SETTLED" or "5ETTLED". Thought the name was related to the real estate term "settled" as in "sold and I have the cash in my hands". Trust am not throwing in a red herring my canine friend.

Not at all, fellow sleuth. The car I am looking for is a dark blue Honda (possibly HRV) with 5ETTLE on the plates. I found a pic of it in some flood cleanup photos of Jan 11, parked outside BC Seniors house.

The car belonged (past tense) to one of GBC's business partners. I am tracking both it and the plates, to see if they have parted company. One poster reported that when the partner left the business in Dec 11, the plates were handed back to GBC. I am trying to ascertain what's happened to both. The police report of a dark blue small 4WD sparked my interest.

 

[minni]

have been searching for ages, can anyone find the link that actually says where on Rafting Ground Road the screams were heard? Marlywings,thanks, I've looked through the links you provided, and Makara, your maps and opinions are greatly appreciated, but RG Rd. is long,& all I could find is a neighbor who said she didn't "think" it was Allison... Can't find an exact location.

p.s. I am realising that I am not a good sleuth, and should not be a detective if I ever grow up.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

haha me too...I blab on a lot, but its just recently occurred to me that I am the worst linker on this forum!!!
I swear I would have got a lot more distinctions etc in uni if I had just learned how to reference! I hated it then and I hate it now

 

[minni]

Im thinking of starting a group where we can meet once a month. You are all invited. Im going to call it WSAnon

 

[Nads]

Thankyou very much for your reply. Makes alot of sense. It'd be so expensive that any money would be eaten up very quickly.
Someone I went to school with was charged and found guilty of murder {years later was let out because he was innocent} and I know his parents lost everything they owned to pay for his legal fees. Luckilly the lawyers etc who ended up getting him out of jail did it for free because the evidence against him was NOTHING. A huge stuff up. He has said that when/if he gets compensation he will be buying his parents a new home and other things that they lost trying to help him.
Thanks again for your reply

What did the legal fees involve if the lawyers worked for free?