Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[AAAA]

Does anybody know where TM is?

 

[wakeskate]

Fantastic photos wakeskate, thanks so much for doing that for us. The private property thing has me intrigued though. Did you see any buildings in close proximity or just the gate with the sign? There is a buidling visible on Google maps but it is a bit further along Wirrabara Road.

There is a house up the hill from where I was. That is obviously part of the property where the fence is that I got to.
There is no way anyone would hear or see anything from that house even if they entered their property.
The house felt unoccupied (nothing in the yard suggesting people were there, no cars, toys in the yard etc), but the bins were out on the sidewalk so I guess someone was living there.

It was mentioned a while back (can't remember if it was in the bail hearing affidavit or MSM) that GBC knew the area around where Allison's body was found and through Century 21 also managed a rental property there. Apparently the police had been called to the rental on a few occasions in regard to an eviction etc. I'm wondering if any of the properties close by to that parking area were now vacant, giving GBC the added security so to speak, of not being seen or heard?

I wouldn't doubt he knows most of the properties in the greater brookfield area.
Even if he didn't sell them he would know all about it. As I mentioned a while back I attended a open house a few months ago, and the agent whom I have never bought a house from remembered my name and knew the last two places I bought. To me that is the sign of a good agent. He did his research even when I wasn't buying from him. I don't doubt Gerard was like this as well. If I were an agent I would be trolling rpdata in my down time researching properties and driving around the areas just in case an opportunity arouse.

I feel that there is every chance that GBC did dump Allison here. Little Ugly Creek bridge can be seen from the entrance to the parking area and I'm assuming that the creek that is accessible from the parking area would also be Little Ugly Creek? I keep being reminded that QPS stated that Allison was dumped where she was found at Kholo Creek. :banghead: Obviously they must have the proof to have charged GBC with interfering with a body at Kholo Creek and not Little Ugly Creek.

Roll on committal hearing!

Yep, the photos in the photo thread are of little ugly creek.
I was amazed at how much water was flowing in them.
We haven't had anywhere near the amount of rain we had the weekend the body was found since then, so I would like to know what weekend they were took as I would dare say it was over the road that weekend.
The police may have no idea where the body was dumped, just where it was found.
They may also refer to the whole system as kholo creek as it is the main tribulation.

 

[wakeskate]

I did say "I thought they were searching a confined area" but he said several teams did check obvious drops... Creepy :-(
No, he had nothing to offer on where, I suspect I was beginning to look was too interested, as he kept trying to change the subject.

I would have thought from day one, small teams would have been checking obvious spots outside of the main search area.
Police would have been on trail bikes up in the forests, police and SES in boats and jet skis on the river checking up all the creeks.

 

[wakeskate]

Being the big bwana scout family, wouldn't they have keys to the scout camp or was their interest in scouts just all for image??

I have also thought the same. If they had a key then it would be an obvious spot.
Also if they have a key then they would know when the next activity was on at the grounds.

On my way out today I was linking the chain cutting to the scout ground gates, however I was very careful to check every chain and they were all old.
Unless they used another padlock to lock the gate up, it doesn't appear that anyone forced there way into the grounds.
Also that entire street has houses on the left side. One is very close to the road. It seems risky to me, but if they had a key then it probably wouldn't be out of the question.

 

[enthralled]

It feels like light years away before we have any answers. I thought time was flying by so fast but when it comes to this case, and finding out what happened, it feels like time has stood still.
I want answers now!

 

[KG1]

Many thanks Wakeskate for your very good, clear photos and very informative descriptions. It is helpful to those who do not know the area. I felt very sad looking at them as the areas seemed lonely and desolate. Is that how it is? I would have been a little scared there if I was on my own.

 

[wakeskate]

Many thanks Wakeskate for your very good, clear photos and very informative descriptions. It is helpful to those who do not know the area. I felt very sad looking at them as the areas seemed lonely and desolate. Is that how it is? I would have been a little scared there if I was on my own.

I wouldn't say lonely and desolate. After visiting the place now twice it's actually quite nice.
My biggest fear with going out there are the people wondering what I am doing. :floorlaugh:

I had maybe 6-10 cars drive past when I was walking down under the bridge, and I just wonder if they are reporting me to the police or not.
As much as I can see how the bridge could have been the dumping spot, I just can't see why you would. Firstly it was so open to the road, second it's right at the mouth of the creek which means the body would have been out in the Brisbane River in no time and someone would have found it.

Up in the area people have been referring to as the "parking spot" makes so much sense to me.
In the dark of the night it would have looked like the perfect place and I doubt anyone would have stumbled across a body up there for some time.

 

[Aunty]

I missed the house for rent photos.
Does anyone have a link that works?

 

[Oberammergau]

Haven't been on this site for ages, but wanted to check out what was being said about the house being rented and if there were any updates on GBC settling in at Arthur Gorrie.

I looked at the pictures of the house and I actually thought it was very "interesting" - lot of different size rooms etc. The kitchen was tiny and obviously was not an "expensive" kitchen, the curtains in the main bedroom looked new and cheap, it all looked to me like a long term rental property - blinds do not fit the windows, no garden or landscaping in the front yard and the pavers looked like they needed a good clean. I feel for the owners though, i will be hard to rent in the short term. Our rental property was the site of a murder/suicide, albeit nearly 40 years ago, and when I have told our tenants they have laughed and made jokes about ghosts etc, time is the healer.

Has there been any update on GBC or his parents, or is it all very quiet now until the next court date?

Parents in Townsville

 

[alioop]

I missed the house for rent photos.
Does anyone have a link that works?

The listing has disappeared. Either its been rented, owners changed agents or listing removed due to too much sticky beaking. Wonder how many people turned up at the open house on the weekend?

 

[alioop]

Parents in Townsville

Probably felt a bit lonely here in Brisbane.

 

[possumheart]

The listing has disappeared. Either its been rented, owners changed agents or listing removed due to too much sticky beaking. Wonder how many people turned up at the open house on the weekend?

Yes it has gone ...

 

[alioop]

Thanks so much wakeskate for the pictures and notes, they have given me a new perspective.

A few threads back, westie provided this useful link:
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.468907,153.025475&z=14&t=h&nmd=20110113
It’s to nearmap.com, a photo map site that is updated every few weeks and keeps historic photos going back a couple of years. You’ll need to register to use the website but it’s free if it’s for your own personal non-commercial use, eg for sleuthing or idle snooping.

If you login to nearmap.com, zoom in on the area around Wirrabara Rd where wakeskate has been investigating today, and click on the dots at the top of the page to change the dates of the photos, you’ll see the same view at different times. The photo for 14 January 2011, during the flood, shows how the area was covered in water during the floods - even the pipes across Kholo Creek at the bridge on Mt Crosby Road were completely submerged. Unfortunately there isn’t a nearmap photo for any time in the period 20-30 April 2012, when we think Allison’s body was thereabouts. The picture from January last year shows how high and wide the creeks can run, and I'm not suggesting that the water rose so high the last weekend in April this year, but it lends some weight to wakeskate's theory.

Thanks Woodstock, I joined up and checked out the map as you suggested. It is very helpful and if you select the date 23 March 2011, then look at the N view (use little arrow rotate in the top bar) the flood waters from January have nearly gone but there is just enough water in little ugly creek that shows pretty much the path of the creek from the parking area off Wirraburra Rd that Wakeskate has found to where it joins Kholo Creek. I have been looking to see the path of the creek and this shows it. Check it out.

 

[Bayside]

Bayside, did a coroner issue a death certificate for your mother? I am wondering if the insurance was paid out when they got a death certificate.

I am sorry I dont know, I have never checked.

 

[alioop]

Been thinking about the creek now that I can actually see how Little Ugly Creek runs into Kholo Creek. We know Allison's body was dumped in a creek, whether Kholo or Little Ugly Creek, it has to be one or the other. The question is why would the murderer do that? Did he want the body found? If motive was to claim her insurances and the QPS think this is the case, then why the creek. Why not for eg the parking area on Wirraburra Rd as more likely to be found there. The Little Ugly Creek bed was probably dry so he wouldn't have thought the body would be washed away any time soon but why risk that by leaving it in a creek. If there were to be heavy rains and of course there was, then what chance would there be of someone finding it. The body could get caught anywhere in flood waters and never be found. No body, no insurance monies any time soon, probably years. Not going to help with the creditor problem. They are not that patient!

If the body was placed say in the parking area, and after a month it hadn't been found then I am sure there are ways that the murderer could have dropped an anonymous hint to QPS. Then it would be found and a death certificate issued and insurance claimed all pretty quickly.

Now what about the rumoured chains? If it is true then why bother with chains or for that matter any other object to attach to the body if you want the body found. If you leave a body in a dry creek bed what purpose do the chains have? As a preventative measure in case of heavy rains so you chain the body to a tree for eg? Why? To keep the body in place perhaps. Again why put it in the creek if you didn't want it to move so that it could be found or so you knew where it was.

If you didn't want a body to be found, then it makes more sense to weigh a body down in deep water but you would surely need more than chains to ensure that. Scott Peterson in the US made concrete weights in his back yard prior to murdering his pregnant wife. Then he took her body in his boat and dumped her in San Francisco Bay with the weights attached. Didn't work though as her body washed ashore 4 months later.

I don't know the answers but it bugs me that it is hard to work out the murderer's intentions with disposal of the body. Maybe panic overtook any preplanning ideas and that is why things don't make sense. Maybe the reality of having done it, sent all plans out the window and it was make it up as you go. I think when we know the facts and the murderer is convicted in due course that we will be saying that he was not very smart and did everything wrong and got caught because of his stupidity.

 

[alioop]

I am sorry I dont know, I have never checked.

If you want to find out, you can go to the Registry of Births Deaths and Marriages in the state where you lived at the time and ask them. As the daughter you have the right to obtain one if one exists.

 

[Nads]

Been thinking about the creek now that I can actually see how Little Ugly Creek runs into Kholo Creek. We know Allison's body was dumped in a creek, whether Kholo or Little Ugly Creek, it has to be one or the other. The question is why would the murderer do that? Did he want the body found? If motive was to claim her insurances and the QPS think this is the case, then why the creek. Why not for eg the parking area on Wirraburra Rd as more likely to be found there. The Little Ugly Creek bed was probably dry so he wouldn't have thought the body would be washed away any time soon but why risk that by leaving it in a creek. If there were to be heavy rains and of course there was, then what chance would there be of someone finding it. The body could get caught anywhere in flood waters and never be found. No body, no insurance monies any time soon, probably years. Not going to help with the creditor problem. They are not that patient!

If the body was placed say in the parking area, and after a month it hadn't been found then I am sure there are ways that the murderer could have dropped an anonymous hint to QPS. Then it would be found and a death certificate issued and insurance claimed all pretty quickly.

Now what about the rumoured chains? If it is true then why bother with chains or for that matter any other object to attach to the body if you want the body found. If you leave a body in a dry creek bed what purpose do the chains have? As a preventative measure in case of heavy rains so you chain the body to a tree for eg? Why? To keep the body in place perhaps. Again why put it in the creek if you didn't want it to move so that it could be found or so you knew where it was.

If you didn't want a body to be found, then it makes more sense to weigh a body down in deep water but you would surely need more than chains to ensure that. Scott Peterson in the US made concrete weights in his back yard prior to murdering his pregnant wife. Then he took her body in his boat and dumped her in San Francisco Bay with the weights attached. Didn't work though as her body washed ashore 4 months later.

I don't know the answers but it bugs me that it is hard to work out the murderer's intentions with disposal of the body. Maybe panic overtook any preplanning ideas and that is why things don't make sense. Maybe the reality of having done it, sent all plans out the window and it was make it up as you go. I think when we know the facts and the murderer is convicted in due course that we will be saying that he was not very smart and did everything wrong and got caught because of his stupidity.

The body might have been weighted so it didn't get washed away into the Brisbane River and then may never be found.

 

[alioop]

The body might have been weighted so it didn't get washed away into the Brisbane River and then may never be found.

Yes, that is what I was thinking. But if you didn't want it washed away and never found then my question is why leave it in a creek bed?

 

[Berry]

Yep, I know Rational, it's not far at all. And the seclusion of the parking area off Wirrabara Road IMO would have suited GBC perfectly. I'm just wondering if there are any caterpillars there? :floorlaugh:

Caterpillars> they must be bothersome to someone...lol has a few inside this vest of silence to react I see....:floorlaugh:

 

[linette]

Been thinking about the creek now that I can actually see how Little Ugly Creek runs into Kholo Creek. We know Allison's body was dumped in a creek, whether Kholo or Little Ugly Creek, it has to be one or the other. The question is why would the murderer do that? Did he want the body found? If motive was to claim her insurances and the QPS think this is the case, then why the creek. Why not for eg the parking area on Wirraburra Rd as more likely to be found there. The Little Ugly Creek bed was probably dry so he wouldn't have thought the body would be washed away any time soon but why risk that by leaving it in a creek. If there were to be heavy rains and of course there was, then what chance would there be of someone finding it. The body could get caught anywhere in flood waters and never be found. No body, no insurance monies any time soon, probably years. Not going to help with the creditor problem. They are not that patient!

If the body was placed say in the parking area, and after a month it hadn't been found then I am sure there are ways that the murderer could have dropped an anonymous hint to QPS. Then it would be found and a death certificate issued and insurance claimed all pretty quickly.

Now what about the rumoured chains? If it is true then why bother with chains or for that matter any other object to attach to the body if you want the body found. If you leave a body in a dry creek bed what purpose do the chains have? As a preventative measure in case of heavy rains so you chain the body to a tree for eg? Why? To keep the body in place perhaps. Again why put it in the creek if you didn't want it to move so that it could be found or so you knew where it was.

If you didn't want a body to be found, then it makes more sense to weigh a body down in deep water but you would surely need more than chains to ensure that. Scott Peterson in the US made concrete weights in his back yard prior to murdering his pregnant wife. Then he took her body in his boat and dumped her in San Francisco Bay with the weights attached. Didn't work though as her body washed ashore 4 months later.

I don't know the answers but it bugs me that it is hard to work out the murderer's intentions with disposal of the body. Maybe panic overtook any preplanning ideas and that is why things don't make sense. Maybe the reality of having done it, sent all plans out the window and it was make it up as you go. I think when we know the facts and the murderer is convicted in due course that we will be saying that he was not very smart and did everything wrong and got caught because of his stupidity.

I'm still thinking that even if the murder was planned for sometime, that this happened out of the blue. Maybe his reasons for wherever he left his wife were blurred by his shock at the time. Where he did leave her may not have been his place of choice originally. If he did plan this on his own then it's quite possible that he got a lot wrong in his assumptions.

He may have had a plan to have her 'found' when it suited him better. Also, once the deed had actually been done he could have panicked and didn't know if he was Arthur or Martha. He may have just left his wife somewhere and thought that he would deal with the rest later. He just didn't count on being watched so intently by police from the first moment.

These are just possibilities, and could be why things seem hard to put together. IMO