Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[ozazure]

I saved the photos, I'll attach them

 

[ozazure]

5 through 10

 

[ozazure]

last one - i'd suggest saving them to your own HD. I was all creepy stalkerish copying them because I thought they might be interesting to have during a trial. Since that'll be in years, best grab your own copy to save. (right click and "save image as" is the easiest way for those unfamiliar)

 

[Mountain Misst]

I'm still thinking that even if the murder was planned for sometime, that this happened out of the blue. Maybe his reasons for wherever he left his wife were blurred by his shock at the time. Where he did leave her may not have been his place of choice originally. If he did plan this on his own then it's quite possible that he got a lot wrong in his assumptions.

He may have had a plan to have her 'found' when it suited him better. Also, once the deed had actually been done he could have panicked and didn't know if he was Arthur or Martha. He may have just left his wife somewhere and thought that he would deal with the rest later. He just didn't count on being watched so intently by police from the first moment.

These are just possibilities, and could be why things seem hard to put together. IMO

This is a man who made lists for everything. It'll all be in the detail I'm sure. Hope QPS emptied his rubbish bin and shredder on 20 April.

Remember NBC wouldn't let QPS take his vacuum cleaner bag at one stage. Reckon there might have been some more in there as well. Arthur Gorrie wont miss anything.

 

[Mountain Misst]

last one - i'd suggest saving them to your own HD. I was all creepy stalkerish copying them because I thought they might be interesting to have during a trial. Since that'll be in years, best grab your own copy to save. (right click and "save image as" is the easiest way for those unfamiliar)

Quick thinking, thanks.

Can you also add the pix/upload to the WS photo album for everyone to access.

 

[ozazure]

Been thinking about the creek now that I can actually see how Little Ugly Creek runs into Kholo Creek. We know Allison's body was dumped in a creek, whether Kholo or Little Ugly Creek, it has to be one or the other. The question is why would the murderer do that? Did he want the body found? If motive was to claim her insurances and the QPS think this is the case, then why the creek. Why not for eg the parking area on Wirraburra Rd as more likely to be found there. The Little Ugly Creek bed was probably dry so he wouldn't have thought the body would be washed away any time soon but why risk that by leaving it in a creek. If there were to be heavy rains and of course there was, then what chance would there be of someone finding it. The body could get caught anywhere in flood waters and never be found. No body, no insurance monies any time soon, probably years. Not going to help with the creditor problem. They are not that patient!

snipped for space

My feeling is that the insurance payoff and subsequent easing of his financial woes was more of a "pie in the sky" thing he was daydreaming about, toying with, which made a space in his mind for Allison being gone and many of his problems with it ... I think in the end he committed murder in a rage, and it is very likely the problem of Allison being at the same conference as TM the next day played into it. His daydreams of her being gone spurring him on. He put her in the water because it is expedient, he didn't have the time or inclination to bury her and being in the water conceals more forensic evidence. He had no idea really about what was involved with the insurance, hence the very incriminating phone calls after her murder. I don't think he thought things out too well. He fooled no one.

 

[ozazure]

Quick thinking, thanks.

Can you also add the pix/upload to the WS photo album for everyone to access. Would be nice to add your strip of mother and daughters too.

Sure, though I don't know where the album is??

 

[Opinionsgalore]

Talking to a guy I work with today - he is a member of the SES. Had to guide the conversation round to Allison (as you do), he was a member of the search team on several days. He was telling me their instructions were for a body search from day 1. He also told me she definitely was washed to where she was found as Kholo Bridge had already been checked! I was very surprised as I hadn't heard this already, had anyone else heard this?

Thanks Onlyone


All MOO.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Sure, though I don't know where the album is??

I think this is it: Where's Marlywings and Mani when you need them. Makara would know too.. lol

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178134"]PICTURES from our locals *NO DISCUSSION* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Fuskier]

... We know Allison's body was dumped in a creek ... The question is why would the murderer do that? Did he want the body found? If motive was to claim her insurances and the QPS think this is the case, then why the creek?

...If you didn't want a body to be found, then it makes more sense to weigh a body down in deep water but you would surely need more than chains to ensure that...

Just a thought: was the body disposed of to make it look like a stranger murdered her? i.e. discarded at the creek? If he (they?) didn't want the body found they could have ensured that by burying her. IMO placing the body in/near the creek ensures she will be found - only a matter of time. My opinion only, not fact.

 

[DrWatson]

Yes, that is what I was thinking. But if you didn't want it washed away and never found then my question is why leave it in a creek bed?

My thinking all along was that the body WASN'T left in a creek bed. It was possibly left in the bush close to the edge of a creek bank, or just rolled down the bank into the bush.

But the rains we had were just so unexpected, that the flooding was quite extensive, and objects from the sides of the creek were washed INTO the creek, and subsequently down the creek.

And I still think one of the possibilities is just before the main bridge on Mt Crosby Rd, on the northern (right side heading outbound) the pull-off area where you can drive off the road, just before the crash barrier. A vehicle could drive off there, remembering that it would have been dark, and with no lights on, almost certainly wouldn't be visible from the road. It could have gone into that area towards the point where Little Ugly Creek flows into Kholo Creek, and a body could have been pushed into the bush there - which slopes down to the creek.

And then the rains came.....

But, as usual, that is all guesswork....

 

[Judicious]

Thank you Wakeskate for those great photos and thank you Mountain Misst for the link to the all the other photos. You guys have some fantastic photos on this site, obviously some really great photographers.

 

[Maigret]

Quick thinking, thanks.

Can you also add the pix/upload to the WS photo album for everyone to access. Would be nice to add your strip of mother and daughters too.

That first little girl in the strip is Kiesha Abrahams isn't it?

 

[Mountain Misst]

That first little girl in the strip is Kiesha Abrahams isn't it?

Yes my error Maigret. Silly me. I've removed that bit about the girls from my original post. Apologies for the red herring.

 

[alioop]

I'm still thinking that even if the murder was planned for sometime, that this happened out of the blue. Maybe his reasons for wherever he left his wife were blurred by his shock at the time. Where he did leave her may not have been his place of choice originally. If he did plan this on his own then it's quite possible that he got a lot wrong in his assumptions.

He may have had a plan to have her 'found' when it suited him better. Also, once the deed had actually been done he could have panicked and didn't know if he was Arthur or Martha. He may have just left his wife somewhere and thought that he would deal with the rest later. He just didn't count on being watched so intently by police from the first moment.

These are just possibilities, and could be why things seem hard to put together. IMO

Thanks Linette, all of this makes good sense and I think is highly possible.

 

[linette]

Just a thought: was the body disposed of to make it look like a stranger murdered her? i.e. discarded at the creek? If he (they?) didn't want the body found they could have ensured that by burying her. IMO placing the body in/near the creek ensures she will be found - only a matter of time. My opinion only, not fact.

Exactly. This is sort of what I meant in the way that we're thinking one way, but his intentions may not have been what we thought. Ofcourse he never wanted to be seen as the killer, who knows what crazy plan he had in that head of his? It's very possible he just left her there hoping it would be found one day but that the blame would never fall on him... therefore he would still be able to claim the life insurance IF that was his plan.

I still think that the whole 'planning' thing was done by him alone, but that's only because I hate to think someone other than him was in on this. BUT I do believe someone helped him afterwards... for sure.... or at the very least KNOWS exactly what went down.

 

[alioop]

snipped for space

My feeling is that the insurance payoff and subsequent easing of his financial woes was more of a "pie in the sky" thing he was daydreaming about, toying with, which made a space in his mind for Allison being gone and many of his problems with it ... I think in the end he committed murder in a rage, and it is very likely the problem of Allison being at the same conference as TM the next day played into it. His daydreams of her being gone spurring him on. He put her in the water because it is expedient, he didn't have the time or inclination to bury her and being in the water conceals more forensic evidence. He had no idea really about what was involved with the insurance, hence the very incriminating phone calls after her murder. I don't think he thought things out too well. He fooled no one.

Thanks Ozazure, I agree, it makes good sense to me that he may have killed Allison in a rage brought on by an argument re the conference and TM the next day. Bit of a coincidence otherwise that he had preplanned to kill her on that particular night. I don't know if her murder was planned, but even if it was I don't think it was to occur that night.

 

[Maigret]

Thanks Ozazure, I agree, it makes good sense to me that he may have killed Allison in a rage brought on by an argument re the conference and TM the next day. Bit of a coincidence otherwise that he had preplanned to kill her on that particular night. I don't know if her murder was planned, but even if it was I don't think it was to occur that night.

Early on someone stated that it was planned for when the Brookfild Show was on (random stranger abducts young local mother)
But that plans went awry (argument)
Awful to think that your husband (honour, love etc) would think to kill you and not simply divorce

 

[Maigret]

Exactly. This is sort of what I meant in the way that we're thinking one way, but his intentions may not have been what we thought. Ofcourse he never wanted to be seen as the killer, who knows what crazy plan he had in that head of his? It's very possible he just left her there hoping it would be found one day but that the blame would never fall on him... therefore he would still be able to claim the life insurance IF that was his plan.

I still think that the whole 'planning' thing was done by him alone, but that's only because I hate to think someone other than him was in on this. BUT I do believe someone helped him afterwards... for sure.... or at the very least KNOWS exactly what went down.

Agree especially as to what was going on in his crazy head- nothing much he did afterwards made sense ( maybe only to him and his twisted family)

 

[Maigret]

Yes my error Maigret. Silly me. I've removed that bit about the girls from my original post. Apologies for the red herring.

Lol at first I thought doesn't she look a lot like Kiesha