Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[alioop]

My thinking all along was that the body WASN'T left in a creek bed. It was possibly left in the bush close to the edge of a creek bank, or just rolled down the bank into the bush.

But the rains we had were just so unexpected, that the flooding was quite extensive, and objects from the sides of the creek were washed INTO the creek, and subsequently down the creek.

Doc, your theory that the body wasn't left in the creek answers a lot of my questions. The more I think about it, the more I feel you could be right. It fits perfectly with him wanting the body to be found and knowing where it was at all times. That is part of the controlling trait that I think this person has. He likes to control the situation and be in charge. Everyone else is just used for his desires. Part of the control is knowledge and it is important to know where the body is. Leaving on dry land does that.

 

[alioop]

I still think that the whole 'planning' thing was done by him alone, but that's only because I hate to think someone other than him was in on this. BUT I do believe someone helped him afterwards... for sure.... or at the very least KNOWS exactly what went down.

I agree Linette. I don't think anyone else was involved in the actual killing of poor Allison. I can't believe any of his family or TM were involved in such a horrid evil act. One person did it in my opinion. Statistically wife killers act alone by the very nature of the crime, intimate homicide.

 

[linette]

I do think that, even if you have planned something like a murder and think {in your arrogance} that you can actually get away with it... there would HAVE to be a certain amount of "What the hell have I done" once it has happened. The reality sets in. Well, maybe for most, not all. We are assuming this is his first murder {I would certainly hope so} and you could never even guess at how you might react once you've done it. He may have been thinking he was all good and stuff til it happened. Therefore nothing makes sense in where Allison was found, and why he'd do things a certain way. Surely if he is even half human he would have gone into shock in some way? {Not that I give a rats poo how he felt, just that it might help explain the carelessness of his plans}

 

[linette]

just adding... IF the murder was planned for the show weekend, but happened earlier, then he would have lost his little "bad man at the show took her" theory to use. Because it happened when he didn't expect it any plans he may have had would be useless. He would have been left with his deceased wife and nobody to blame. Maybe the only thing on his mind that night was to get rid of the body, anywhere that she wasn't going to be found straight away. ... hence the "I'll deal with it tomorrow when I've had time to think." Only the police were all over him straight away and he couldn't even wipe his butt without them knowing. He couldn't sneak out to move the body... everything just went wrong as far as plans go.
IMO the whole thing screams of him not knowing what the heck to do... which could be why it doesn't make sense that he planned anything/or that someone could be so stupid as to not 'tidy up the lose ends'.

I'm still not sure if it was pre planned or not, but this would make sense even if it was.

 

[regret]

Talking to a guy I work with today - he is a member of the SES. Had to guide the conversation round to Allison (as you do), he was a member of the search team on several days. He was telling me their instructions were for a body search from day 1. He also told me she definitely was washed to where she was found as Kholo Bridge had already been checked! I was very surprised as I hadn't heard this already, had anyone else heard this?

Now THAT is making sense! (my bolding & italics) Culvert, drain, under-bridge searches would likely be search protocol in these sorts of cases. It seems like a very simple extension of very simple 'hide' panic behaviour.

 

[enthralled]

Yes, that is what I was thinking. But if you didn't want it washed away and never found then my question is why leave it in a creek bed?

My guess is whoever murdered Allison wanted her found but not straightaway and maybe they hoped that by putting her in the creek that some forensic evidence may be washed away IMO

 

[alioop]

Now THAT is making sense! (my bolding & italics) Culvert, drain, under-bridge searches would likely be search protocol in these sorts of cases. It seems like a very simple extension of very simple 'hide' panic behaviour.

Absolutely agree with you Regret. They do the obvious searches in a wider area then a close in search of the local area first then move outwards. This is a big piece of info that they had searched at kholo bridge.

 

[DrWatson]

Originally Posted by Onlyone
Talking to a guy I work with today - he is a member of the SES. Had to guide the conversation round to Allison (as you do), he was a member of the search team on several days. He was telling me their instructions were for a body search from day 1. He also told me she definitely was washed to where she was found as Kholo Bridge had already been checked! I was very surprised as I hadn't heard this already, had anyone else heard this?

I must admit that I find this somewhat surprising. Kholo Creek bridge is several kilometres away from the primary search area, and it is not one of the more obvious sites I would think of checking. They had helicopters searching dams on properties outside the main search area - including ours - and it wouldn't surprise me to hear that they'd checked industrial bins all the way out to Sumner Park, and umpteen creeks and other more obvious dumping spots, rather than Kholo Creek bridge. But under the Kholo Creek main road bridge?

I'm not saying your friend is wrong - just that I'm surprised that they were even searching that far out. How or why would they even think to check there, given the huge number of potential dumping spots all around the area?

However, as always - time will tell... :banghead:

 

[The Observer]

I agree with the others that have stated it wasn't meant to happen that night. I think the conference the next day and knowing TM was going to be there caused everything to get out of hand that night.

How would GBC know TM was attending the conference the next day unless he was in contact with her (in Allison's eyes). That alone was enough for Allison to be made aware that the "affair" wasn't over. Fight ensued. I wouldn't be at all shocked if Allison caused those scratches and marks on him there and then. Any woman would be irate in that situation.

As a woman, I am disgraced at TM. Yes she has a livelihood to earn for her children but what woman says (for example) "Tell your wife I'm going to be at the conference tomorrow" knowing full well the ramifications of that. TM's behaviour was similarly as destructive as GBC's. There's been talk since the beginning that one of GBC's mistresses was jealous of Allison etc.. and I think its safe to say that person is/was TM. IMO she knew, even after the fact.

I wonder how GBC feels with his parents in Townsville? No one here for him. Him being the golden child. Be interesting to see if anyone else has attempted to see him recently?

 

[possumheart]

TM's behaviour was similarly as destructive as GBC's. There's been talk since the beginning that one of GBC's mistresses was jealous of Allison etc.. and I think its safe to say that person is/was TM. IMO she knew, even after the fact.

Well I think it is disgraceful that GBC and TM had prioritised their 'needs' (be they lust or love) above those of the children involved. Removing or erasing Allison as the solution to their dishonesty is the most selfish act. I don't have strong enough words to express how I feel. :furious:

 

[LauraMars]

I must admit that I find this somewhat surprising. Kholo Creek bridge is several kilometres away from the primary search area, and it is not one of the more obvious sites I would think of checking. They had helicopters searching dams on properties outside the main search area - including ours - and it wouldn't surprise me to hear that they'd checked industrial bins all the way out to Sumner Park, and umpteen creeks and other more obvious dumping spots, rather than Kholo Creek bridge. But under the Kholo Creek main road bridge?

I'm not saying your friend is wrong - just that I'm surprised that they were even searching that far out. How or why would they even think to check there, given the huge number of potential dumping spots all around the area?

However, as always - time will tell... :banghead:

It doesn't really surprise me at all that they may have searched there. Although the main search area was a lot more confined to around the Brookfield house and nearby surrounds, quite a few people who live out near the bridge said they had choppers and I think maybe kayakers searching waterways? Certainly if people in the Mt. Crosby area reported any strange goings on, early on in the piece, the police (or SES, locals) may well have searched under that bridge. It is on one of the main routes out of Brookfield. Also, just the fact that it is so close to the scout grounds, and the family connection there, they would have to have had a bit of a look around surely?

There was a poster on here way back who said they gave police at the showgrounds some info regarding the Kholo Creek area. This was before Allison was found. There was also another poster who got eerie feelings going over that bridge, again, before the body was found.

Generally, I don't think someone who is dedicated enough to do SES work, is going to invent stuff, or give false info.

Of course in cases like this, you're always going to get a few oddballs who make up BS, but I think thankfully, on the whole, most people are legit and honest.

 

[DrWatson]

It doesn't really surprise me at all that they may have searched there. Although the main search area was a lot more confined to around the Brookfield house and nearby surrounds, quite a few people who live out near the bridge said they had choppers and I think maybe kayakers searching waterways? Certainly if people in the Mt. Crosby area reported any strange goings on, early on in the piece, the police may well have searched under that bridge. It is on one of the main routes out of Brookfield. Also, just the fact that it is so close to the scout grounds, and the family connection there, they would have to have had a bit of a look around surely?

There was a poster on here way back who said they gave police at the showgrounds some info regarding the Kholo Creek area. This was before Allison was found. There was also another poster who got eerie feelings going over that bridge, again, before the body was found.

Generally, I don't think someone who is dedicated enough to do SES work, is going to invent stuff, or give false info.

Of course in cases like this, you're always going to get a few oddballs who make up BS, but I think thankfully, on the whole, most people are legit and honest.

Good points, LM. Yes, perhaps if they'd had a tip, eg of noises in the night from somebody out that way, or a passing car thought they may have seen something in the night, then yes, checking the area would be no surprise.

I'm not suggesting for one minute that the SES person was making it up - just that I was surprised.

I certainly wouldn't have thought to have checked there anywhere near the top of a list of possibilities. But as you say - if there had been some indication to check there, then yes, that could account for it.

 

[LauraMars]

Of course there are hundreds of places in the area that Allison's body could have been taken to, and only so many that could have been searched extensively, but as Regret said above, maybe creeks, under bridges etc, were a given search protocol, even if they were way out of the immediate main search area.

I must say it does really surprise me that she was obviously placed near to the scoutgrounds. But maybe that was a bit of an attempt at reverse psychology on GBC's part - he could say "As if I would put her there"? He may have been trying to make it look like a set-up, if he was going to try and implicate someone else known to them. Or it could have been pure stupidity, which wouldn't surprise me.

 

[LauraMars]

I also wonder when the sightings of the cars near the bridge were actually reported. If it was before Allison was found, then you'd think police would have gone down there for a looksee.

And I think a lot of people, if they'd seen or heard anything odd, would have reported these things to police pretty early on in the case, even if they were quite a way from the Baden-Clay house.

 

[LauraMars]

You've also got to wonder whether he ever tried to stitch up TM as the killer? Apparently, he voluntarily gave police the info about that relationship on day one - so I have read somewhere - IMO.

I think it's likely that he never really gave a *advertiser censored* about TM - she was possibly just a big use on his part, because she may have had a good cash base. If he'd loved her that much, wouldn't he have left Allison to shack up with TM much earlier? And if he'd really loved TM, why would he be screwing others as well, as has been reported in MSM.

 

[marlywings]

Going by one the early reports just after Allison's body was found, it says the creek hadn't been searched.

May 01, 2012 6:46PM

He said the creek where the woman's body had been found had not previously been searched as police had been following a search and rescue manual, which involved a thorough search of a 2km radius surrounding the Baden-Clay home.

"That then spreads out to other areas to ensure a thorough search has been done," Supt Ainsworth said.

Det Supt Ainsworth urged anyone who had seen any unusual activity at the Mt Crosby weir area in the past 11 days to contact police.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...d-at-kholo-creek/story-e6freoof-1226343136675

 

[marlywings]

Of course there are hundreds of places in the area that Allison's body could have been taken to, and only so many that could have been searched extensively, but as Regret said above, maybe creeks, under bridges etc, were a given search protocol, even if they were way out of the immediate main search area.

I must say it does really surprise me that she was obviously placed near to the scoutgrounds. But maybe that was a bit of an attempt at reverse psychology on GBC's part - he could say "As if I would put her there"? He may have been trying to make it look like a set-up, if he was going to try and implicate someone else known to them. Or it could have been pure stupidity, which wouldn't surprise me.

I wonder when exactly we'll get to find out where Allison's body was placed from these three locations...the bridge where she was found...scoutgrounds...or Wirrabara Rd. Both the scoutgrounds & an area on Wirrabarra were cordoned off & taped up by police.

May 03, 2012

Crime scene tape cordoned off one of the gates off Bunya Rd to the nearby Tyamolum Scout Grounds as well as a segment of bushland on Wirrabara Rd near to Kholo Creek, where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found under a Mt Crosby Rd bridge.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/tr...ents-in-the-area/story-fnat7jnn-1226345491639

---------------------------------

Whichever it was, I think it's safe to say GBC had no idea about the rain that was to come the following week. From memory, BOM didn't start predicting it until the Tues or Wed after Allison had disappeared.

GBC would have been aware of the creeks flow after torrential rains??...would he have started to become concerned when the rain started??.

 

[LauraMars]

Thanks for the link Marlywings, though I don't take anything as total gospel in regards to the CM or other mainstream reporting, so just because they said the bridge area wasn't searched, hmmm, I don't know.

They also said GBC wasn't a suspect at one stage, but that I think is bollocks. I know someone who works for Queensland Police, and she told me herself, that they knew Allison was dead on day one, and that GBC had done it. She only told me this after the arrest mind you, and nothing more.

In that article you posted the link for above, it mentions Mt Crosby Weir a couple of times. Is the Weir the actual Kholo Bridge, or further away? I know I saw it on a map way back, but can't find it at the mo.

 

[linette]

Thanks for the link Marlywings, though I don't take anything as total gospel in regards to the CM or other mainstream reporting, so just because they said the bridge area wasn't searched, hmmm, I don't know.

They also said GBC wasn't a suspect at one stage, but that I think is bollocks. I know someone who works for Queensland Police, and she told me herself, that they knew Allison was dead on day one, and that GBC had done it. She only told me this after the arrest mind you, and nothing more.

In that article you posted the link for above, it mentions Mt Crosby Weir a couple of times. Is the Weir the actual Kholo Bridge, or further away? I know I saw it on a map way back, but can't find it at the mo.

Yes, what the police know and what the media know are 2 different things. Just as what is true and what we are told {by media etc} can also be 2 different things. I think if it came from the mouth of an SES worker then it probably DID happen. Makes sense anyway, all bridges etc to be checked, even if it was 'just incase' it was a suicide. Might not have been part of the overall official search, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Plus since the police knew there was a possible suicide tinge to GBC's story than it would make sense to check and see if he placed her body somewhere to make that seem possible.

 

[marlywings]

Thanks for the link Marlywings, though I don't take anything as total gospel in regards to the CM or other mainstream reporting, so just because they said the bridge area wasn't searched, hmmm, I don't know.

They also said GBC wasn't a suspect at one stage, but that I think is bollocks. I know someone who works for Queensland Police, and she told me herself, that they knew Allison was dead on day one, and that GBC had done it. She only told me this after the arrest mind you, and nothing more.

In that article you posted the link for above, it mentions Mt Crosby Weir a couple of times. Is the Weir the actual Kholo Bridge, or further away? I know I saw it on a map way back, but can't find it at the mo.

I think their calling it Mt.Crosby Weir was a mistake...the Weir is quite some distance from Kholo Bridge.

In the very early reports it mentioned GBC was a person of interest & I think that was changed once his lawyer became involved. I'm not sure about police knowing Allison was dead from day one as Inspector Ainsworth quite a few times stated "I don't believe she's met her demise" & they were looking for a positive resolution.