Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

[Bayside]

Just thinking if Allison had commit suicide(and I think that is the last thing she would have done) I really think she would have left a note and specific instructions. She was organised - and her girls were her top priority. No way would she have left with out sending them her love and special personal messages from her. Her family was the world to her and they would have been remembered by her at the very least.

She wrote everything else in her diary, she would have made an entry about feeling suicidal.

 

[marlywings]

Folks I'm going to move the posts re the death of Ferguson over to the following thread...if anyone else would like to comment on it please go to here...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194560"]Notorious paedophile Dennis Ferguson found dead - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Mystymiss]

Sometimes garages have door leading out to the back yard and a door leading into the house. So could he have smothered her with a pillow, rolled her up in a carpet or tarp. Throw her body out the window, recover it through the back door of the garage put it in the vehicle, throw her items out the car window on the way to river. Hold her rolled up body on the rail of the bridge let her body unroll in to the water below. Get rid of the
Carpet/tarp.

JMO

 

[Flinders]

#1144
06-29-2012, 10:32 PM
Hawkins
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 153
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8103065&postcount=1144"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29[/ame]

I suspect the alleged cause of death won't involve an escalating dispute leading to sudden lethal violence on that night MOO.

#1137
06-30-2012, 12:17 PM
Hawkins
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Morning all

Going on the above logic, I get the feeling that this may have been a heat of the moment job, so a blow, stabbing, etc - something instantaneous - would have been the method. Of course, that is pure speculation on my part, but tempered by the knowledge of the ones I've seen in the past.

The call to NBC in the middle of the night would suggest a degree of panic as to what to do next, although again, that is pure speculation. It may have been to report "mission accomplished" - we just don't know. Although I find it hard to credit a father plotting in this way with his son.

Hope that stream of thought logic makes some kind of sense....
Husband on wife DV killings very rarely involve attempts to hide the body. It's so rare that I can't recall one in Qld. The heat of passion killings involve quick calls to ooo and an attempt to spin it as an accident or provocation.
End quote


In my opinion the passion in the relationship was from Allison. Where were others passion/s?
My own opinion.

 

[DrWatson]

I think it would be easier to suffocate someone than strangle them as you wouldn't have to look them in the eyes and see them die. Also suffocation is consistent with there being no injury to her hyoid bone in her throat which is often broken or can be highly compressed and change shape in strangulation. ( Doc correct me if I am wrong please)

You're pretty well right, Alioop. Although there are ways to strangle somebody (i.e. Manual compression) without fracturing the hyoid bone. One is via carotid compression using two thumbs, (or just fingers if from behind) while the other is tracheal compression much lower down in what is known as the sternal notch. But those are methods used by somebody who (a) knows what they're doing (i.e. Trained) and (b) who is very cool under pressure. I doubt GBC would be either of those things. They also leave quite distinctive bruises.

Smothering with a pillow or similar (eg plastic) would be relatively easier for someone to do who had never done anything like it before, and in the heat of the moment. Also would be much LESS likely to leave marks such as bruising etc.

 

[Flinders]

Gossip is a tradition to quickly relay messages before newspapers, the 'wireless' etc. For example, "the Brittish are comming."
I have not ever believed that any person who knows of infidelity will proudly gossip about it ever. TM wasn't proud at the gym meeting so I am so sorry if I said or implied idle people speak of visicious topics.

Thank you Doc for the info re. The Zoloft.

 

[Oz Jen]

If it was an escalating DV episode that went wrong, I would think the main reason 000 wasn't called and the fatal outcome protested as an accident or provocation would be the overriding desire to not tarnish the hyphen's name. I have a feeling this would have been instilled from an early age. Image is everything for some. IMOO

 

[Flinders]

You're pretty well right, Alioop. Although there are ways to strangle somebody (i.e. Manual compression) without fracturing the hyoid bone. One is via carotid compression using two thumbs, (or just fingers if from behind) while the other is tracheal compression much lower down in what is known as the sternal notch. But those are methods used by somebody who (a) knows what they're doing (i.e. Trained) and (b) who is very cool under pressure. I doubt GBC would be either of those things. They also leave quite distinctive bruises.

Smothering with a pillow or similar (eg plastic) would be relatively easier for someone to do who had never done anything like it before, and in the heat of the moment. Also would be much LESS likely to leave marks such as bruising etc.

The easiest or the most quiet? Ask a partner of 50 yrs the best way of how to end a loved one's life of cancer and such. Ok now I understand members here are people of Science which is why Algebra and myself were lost.

Is there any element of inquiry that the cars going through the round a bout was not just a matter of that they where there or that the camera takes pictures every so many seconds and that determines speed? Eg. Train B and Train C are travelling as the speed of...... Yep I was asleep thinking I willl not take a train eg. Boring. :banghead:

 

[Liadan]

The easiest or the most quiet? Ask a partner of 50 yrs the best way of how to end a loved one's life of cancer and such. Ok know I understand members here are people of Science which is why Algebra and myself were lost.

Is there any element of inquiry that the cars going through the round a bout was not just a matter of that they where there or that the camera takes pictures every so many seconds and that determines speed? Eg. Train B and Train C are travelling as the speed of...... Yep I was asleep thinking I willl not take a train eg. Boring. :banghead:

So you are suggesting that with the sightings of the BC vehicles at the roundabout the reason for being there is not important it is simply to identify the times of movement of the BCs together for the night. And perhaps to gain more of an idea of how long it took for them to travel at that time of night? From the roundabout to Kholo etc, then Durness St to Brookfield Rd?

 

[Flinders]

If it was an escalating DV episode that went wrong, I would think the main reason 000 wasn't called and the fatal outcome protested as an accident or provocation would be the overriding desire to not tarnish the hyphen's name. I have a feeling this would have been instilled from an early age. Image is everything for some. IMOO

I agree OzJen. I completely understand the double barrel name is so important to some but it has a history of accomplishment in English ways. GBCs Grandma had a grace and favour apartment from the Queen.

That aside every person born has an interchangeable last name as a women who can revert to their maiden name. To have a long surname and to be able to write it is an accomplishment. BC is the name Al will have on the birth certificates of her children.

 

[Flinders]

So you are suggesting that with the sightings of the BC vehicles at the roundabout the reason for being there is not important it is simply to identify the times of movement of the BCs together for the night. And perhaps to gain more of an idea of how long it took for them to travel at that time of night? From the roundabout to Kholo etc, then Durness St to Brookfield Rd?

Hi Liadan, I don't remember that it was a fact the/a car was seen. I do remember a lot of talk about the police were interested. As my weakness is in algebra of speed, heights of tide and such I was out of the loop.

 

[Makara]

I think it would be easier to suffocate someone than strangle them as you wouldn't have to look them in the eyes and see them die. Also suffocation is consistent with there being no injury to her hyoid bone in her throat which is often broken or can be highly compressed and change shape in strangulation. ( Doc correct me if I am wrong please)

Makara, you have the real estate photos, can you please have a look at the windows in what may be their bedroom.

These are the three photos of the main bedroom. IMO Allison's body was not thrown out of a window. Imagine struggling with those blinds etc.

 

[alioop]

The easiest or the most quiet?

Compared to strangling someone face on, I would say that suffocation with say a pillow or plastic would be somewhat easier both physically and emotionally on the perpetrator and also the most quiet by the victim.

 

[alioop]

These are the three photos of the main bedroom. IMO Allison's body was not thrown out of a window. Imagine struggling with those blinds etc.

Thanks Makara. Those windows in the main bedroom which has the ensuite and walk in robe, looks like they have security grills.

 

[marlywings]

You're pretty well right, Alioop. Although there are ways to strangle somebody (i.e. Manual compression) without fracturing the hyoid bone. One is via carotid compression using two thumbs, (or just fingers if from behind) while the other is tracheal compression much lower down in what is known as the sternal notch. But those are methods used by somebody who (a) knows what they're doing (i.e. Trained) and (b) who is very cool under pressure. I doubt GBC would be either of those things. They also leave quite distinctive bruises.

Smothering with a pillow or similar (eg plastic) would be relatively easier for someone to do who had never done anything like it before, and in the heat of the moment. Also would be much LESS likely to leave marks such as bruising etc.

Then there's this from the second bail hearing...

December 14, 2012

"The autopsy report identified a number of possible causes of death," Justice Applegarth said

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...denied-bail-20121214-2beo5.html#ixzz2GPlHUsSB

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Definitely feasible, although CPR is done via the sternum, in the centre of the front chest wall. And ribs may be fractured with vigorous resuscitation, and they tend to crack further out towards the sides.

And may be one line that the defence may follow... I'm not sure they'd proceed with the suicide line of defence, given what even we amateurs have found so far about Zoloft, post-mortem redistribution, and liver concentrations, etc.

Are you thinking a possible negligent manslaughter defence? Along with the interfering with the corpse bit? Or however the legalese goes?

Just a whisker over two months before the committal hearing - but who is counting? :waitasec:

And one would expect that a person with an illustrious Scouting background would be qualified in first aid, at least enough to know the position of the hands on the sternum. (just in case they're reading this and thinking 'what a good idea':twocents:

 

[Flinders]

And one would expect that a person with an illustrious Scouting background would be qualified in first aid.

how do you know that?

 

[they'll get you]

These are the three photos of the main bedroom. IMO Allison's body was not thrown out of a window. Imagine struggling with those blinds etc.

View attachment 28887

View attachment 28888

View attachment 28889

Makara do I recall correctly a photo of the bathroom shower without a curtain & comments that the shower curtain could have possibly been used? I could be wrong?
Do I recall correctly that something was found around Allison when she was found? Please mods sorry if I'm wrong but I'm not sure if these were rumours. Maybe the plastic then a pillowcase stops the victim tearing the plastic?
The notorious American serial killer BTK used this method.

 

[Cyansea]

And one would expect that a person with an illustrious Scouting background would be qualified in first aid, at least enough to know the position of the hands on the sternum. (just in case they're reading this and thinking 'what a good idea':twocents:

Exactly LB and there's also this:

At the same time, he spent three years with the Australia Army Reserve as a training officer.

http://www.news.com.au/national-old...ourt-bail-application/story-e6frfkvr-12264103

 

[they'll get you]

I agree Curious. I believe that Allison was murdered in her bedroom. It may have been on the bed, the floor or even the ensuite. <modsnip> IMO she was either lifted or dragged out through the back door and loaded into the back of the Captiva, already parked in the carport. Vegetation from the back of the house would have clung to her hair and body while this was happening. After Allison was loaded into the Captiva I believe that GBC then phoned the clan. He needed someone to be with the girls while Allison's body was disposed of. And IMO he did not do this alone. It's my belief that two people were involved in the disposal, GBC along with either NBC or OW.

Irrespective of where in the house Allison was murdered, the girls must have heard the argument between their parents and this disturbs me greatly. :cry:

MOO.

Makara I believe the map of 'The love Nest' could have started the argument so wherever they were doing that stupid homework to save their marriage is close to where Allison was murdered. Any woman being confronted with that would want his b+lls on a plate.

Who was this councillor? I still believe if a marriage guidance councillor requested they do this together in private (& not under supervision) has a bloody lot to answer for!
All my opinion :banghead: