Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

[bearbear]

re the phone, maybe gbc just didnt want the hassle or committment of signing up with a new phone contract and thought police would give his back after a few days, plus he could use his parents home phone or his own home phone (if he had one) any time.

 

[CaseClosed]

..... 8 ......

 

[CaseClosed]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...215-2bgji.html Herein we find some explanations published in MSM:
In the Affidavit, Mr Flegg,the state Member for Moggill, said he had known Mr Baden-Clay for eight years ..."I consider him a friend".
He said that on the night Mrs Baden-Clay was reported missing: "I was aware ... that Mr Baden-Clay could not stay at his house. I called him and offered for him to stay at a self-contained private room at my residence if he needed".
Mr Flegg said: "I do remember that he called me a couple of days ago and asked me about the media report about the Kenmore roundabout and whether there is a camera there". Mr Flegg said since Allison's disappearance, he had not given Gerard any money, nor a telephone, car or anything else to help him further than offering his support. Mr Flegg’s Affidavit was submitted to the Court during Mr Baden-Clay’s second bail application.

So, there was no phone lent to him (or so BF says). I do believe thought that GBC was absolutely broke. Since the story broke, his business suffered greatly and he probably had huge expenses and no business income, with listings disappearing rapidly. iMO.

 

[Mountain Misst]

I personally don't think that money was so tight GBC would't have been able to just buy another phone. IMO.
In fact, the whole money motive thing seems extremely improbable to me. IMO.
Money is relative - and although I understand that $1m or even $58k might seem a lot of money to some people, to others it is not. When you consider the probable turnover of an established Real Estate Agency in Brisbane's western suburbs, $58k seems an insignificant sum. And in comparison to that, the cost of a phone is chickenfeed. IMO.

"He said Crown submissions at the first bail hearing suggesting his client had $1 million debts was incorrect, arguing they were closer to $58,000.
Mr Davis said the revised figure showed there was not the "impending doom" financially as alleged in the first bail hearing. See more here: http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/defence-claims-allison-baden-clay-overdose/1660706/

"The most recent median house price for Pullenvale is $1,060,000 and the median unit price is $1,050,000". See more here: http://www.rs.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=sp&s=qld&u=pullenvale

"The most recent median house price for Brookfield is $700,000 and the median unit price is not available". See more here: http://www.rs.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=sp&s=qld&u=brookfield

GBC was in debt and did not own his house in Brookfield or any other real estate in Brisbane. Is the reason for your links to show possible real estate commission earnings for sale of houses in the area RLTP? If so then why was GBC so heavily in debt if he could earn large commissions?
We have been provided with lists of his assets from the first bail hearing. He didn't own his own home. If he was earning the big bucks where did all the money go?

 

[Fuskier]

I personally don't think that money was so tight GBC would't have been able to just buy another phone. IMO.
In fact, the whole money motive thing seems extremely improbable to me. IMO.
Money is relative - and although I understand that $1m or even $58k might seem a lot of money to some people, to others it is not. When you consider the probable turnover of an established Real Estate Agency in Brisbane's western suburbs, $58k seems an insignificant sum. And in comparison to that, the cost of a phone is chickenfeed. IMO.

"He said Crown submissions at the first bail hearing suggesting his client had $1 million debts was incorrect, arguing they were closer to $58,000.
Mr Davis said the revised figure showed there was not the "impending doom" financially as alleged in the first bail hearing. See more here: http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/defence-claims-allison-baden-clay-overdose/1660706/

GBC was in debt and did not own his house in Brookfield or any other real estate in Brisbane. Is the reason for your links to show possible real estate commission earnings for sale of houses in the area RLTP? If so then why was GBC so heavily in debt if he could earn large commissions?
We have been provided with lists of his assets from the first bail hearing. He didn't own his own home. If he was earning the big bucks where did all the money go?

Exactly. Where did all the money go?
I remain amazed that they were living in a rented property and were not in the process of owning a family property which Allison and the girls could call 'home'. A rented propery is not really 'home'. It has a temporary sense about it. This may have been a depressing factor for Allison, that is, no home to call their own. Restrictions apply to rented properties which prevent the creativity one could have with feeling safe and secure in your own home environment. Again with the alleged financial debts, how was GBC going to pay for the children's education at IGGS in the next year or so? IMO the financial pressure was in the red zone. My opinion only.

 

[LadyBird1]

I personally don't think that money was so tight GBC would't have been able to just buy another phone. IMO.
In fact, the whole money motive thing seems extremely improbable to me. IMO.
Money is relative - and although I understand that $1m or even $58k might seem a lot of money to some people, to others it is not. When you consider the probable turnover of an established Real Estate Agency in Brisbane's western suburbs, $58k seems an insignificant sum. And in comparison to that, the cost of a phone is chickenfeed. IMO.

"He said Crown submissions at the first bail hearing suggesting his client had $1 million debts was incorrect, arguing they were closer to $58,000.
Mr Davis said the revised figure showed there was not the "impending doom" financially as alleged in the first bail hearing. See more here: http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/defence-claims-allison-baden-clay-overdose/1660706/

"The most recent median house price for Pullenvale is $1,060,000 and the median unit price is $1,050,000". See more here: http://www.rs.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=sp&s=qld&u=pullenvale

"The most recent median house price for Brookfield is $700,000 and the median unit price is not available". See more here: http://www.rs.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=sp&s=qld&u=brookfield

True that money is relative. However to one who is broke $1m or $58k is a fortune. Even $1,000 is a windfall. The means of securing the money, any money, may have paled into insignificance, particularly if no thought had been given to repaying "loans."
Seems this businessman wanted to spread his debts.

 

[they'll get you]

Exactly. Where did all the money go?
I remain amazed that they were living in a rented property and were not in the process of owning a family property which Allison and the girls could call 'home'. A rented propery is not really 'home'. It has a temporary sense about it. This may have been a depressing factor for Allison, that is, no home to call their own. Restrictions apply to rented properties which prevent the creativity one could have with feeling safe and secure in your own home environment. Again with the alleged financial debts, how was GBC going to pay for the children's education at IGGS in the next year or so? IMO the financial pressure was in the red zone.

I worked in real estate sales for over 10 years (& no I didn't have an affair with GBC). The agencies are only as good as the market is at the time and only as good as the sales people are.

I believe the market nose dived after the flooding around Brisbane, so the existing properties fell in price, potential properties could not be listed & without buyers a property WON'T sell. A saying is 'you're only as good as your last sale' and many rats will leave a sinking ship quick smart. Bad news gets around like lightening with the help of the opposition.

The overheads of having a business such as this are enormous, everything from rent, wages, super, insurance & the amount payable to C-21 franchise fees are massive. To me it looks like there were so many hangers on too & possibly a family trust company?

Allison owned a house!! right next door to her parents & it's a crying shame she didn't take the children home there to start afresh.

I'm glad Allison tore apart his face because she could have been just another missing person & the community would have surrounded the BC's with their benevolence, as those beautiful country folk do best.

 

[LadyBird1]

GBC was in debt and did not own his house in Brookfield or any other real estate in Brisbane. Is the reason for your links to show possible real estate commission earnings for sale of houses in the area RLTP? If so then why was GBC so heavily in debt if he could earn large commissions?
We have been provided with lists of his assets from the first bail hearing. He didn't own his own home. If he was earning the big bucks where did all the money go?

The answer to "Where did all the money go?" would probably depend on how many female friends there were on the side. Also and possibly how many male friends he was needing to impress.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

GBC was in debt and did not own his house in Brookfield or any other real estate in Brisbane. Is the reason for your links to show possible real estate commission earnings for sale of houses in the area RLTP? If so then why was GBC so heavily in debt if he could earn large commissions?
We have been provided with lists of his assets from the first bail hearing. He didn't own his own home. If he was earning the big bucks where did all the money go?

Yes, the links were to show what commission earnings could be. They are current. Prior to 2008, prices were much higher. GBC had owned C21 Westside since 2004, so he had experienced the boom years too. The real estate market in Brisbane has slumped dramatically in the last few years and high end property prices have suffered the most from this.
But like I said, money is relative. $58k may seem heavily in debt to some people - to others, it is not. All the money coming into the business in recent years was probably going out on business overheads, which I would imagine, compared to 58k, would be massive!
It seemed a surprisingly small amount of debt to me, especially considering the nature of the real estate market over the last few years.
When the amount of $1m was touted, I didn't think that was unusual and I also didn't think that was an amount that would be unusually stressful for GBC to be dealing with. But $58k, for me anyway, completely excludes money as a motive. IMO.

 

[marlywings]

I worked in real estate sales for over 10 years (& no I didn't have an affair with GBC). The agencies are only as good as the market is at the time and only as good as the sales people are.

I believe the market nose dived after the flooding around Brisbane, so the existing properties fell in price, potential properties could not be listed & without buyers a property WON'T sell. A saying is 'you're only as good as your last sale' and many rats will leave a sinking ship quick smart. Bad news gets around like lightening with the help of the opposition.

The overheads of having a business such as this are enormous, everything from rent, wages, super, insurance & the amount payable to C-21 franchise fees are massive. To me it looks like there were so many hangers on too & possibly a family trust company?

Allison owned a house!! right next door to her parents & it's a crying shame she didn't take the children home there to start afresh.

I'm glad Allison tore apart his face because she could have been just another missing person & the community would have surrounded the BC's with their benevolence, as those beautiful country folk do best.

Absolutely agree re the market nose diving after the floods. I think GBC had ventured in too deep with the move to huge new premises & couldn't/didn't have the experience to pull himself out of it.

May 02, 2012

A former colleague said the venture "should have worked and it could have worked, but it didn't''.

"There was a dramatic decline ... the market caused some financial issues as well,'' the former colleague said.

"One in six agents left the industry last year.''

"I know business for him has not been good for a long time,'' he said.

"He made a move not that long ago from his subtle office at Kenmore to this ginormous thing at Taringa (and) sales have been slow. He at one stage was talking about leaving the chamber to spend more time in the business.''

http://www.couriermail.com.au/break...ed/story-e6frfkp9-1226344121450#ixzz2MRrd5TNF

 

[marlywings]

Yes, the links were to show what commission earnings could be. They are current. Prior to 2008, prices were much higher. GBC had owned C21 Westside since 2004, so he had experienced the boom years too. The real estate market in Brisbane has slumped dramatically in the last few years and high end property prices have suffered the most from this.
But like I said, money is relative. $58k may seem heavily in debt to some people - to others, it is not. All the money coming into the business in recent years was probably going out on business overheads, which I would imagine, compared to 58k, would be massive!
It seemed a surprisingly small amount of debt to me, especially considering the nature of the real estate market over the last few years.
When the amount of $1m was touted, I didn't think that was unusual and I also didn't think that was an amount that would be unusually stressful for GBC to be dealing with. But $58k, for me anyway, completely excludes money as a motive. IMO.

BBM

It must have been quite stressful for him to be calling up someone for a loan...in "tears, agitated & fearful".... only a
$400,000 loan

"She said it was terrible as Gerard was in tears, agitated and fearful. I remember Sue possibly saying that he could lose everything. Sue told me that he had said he needed $300,000 immediately for his business."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...p-mp-bruce-flegg/story-e6freoof-1226537614122

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

BBM

It must have been quite stressful for him to be calling up someone for a loan...in "tears, agitated & fearful".... only a
$400,000 loan

"She said it was terrible as Gerard was in tears, agitated and fearful. I remember Sue possibly saying that he could lose everything. Sue told me that he had said he needed $300,000 immediately for his business."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...p-mp-bruce-flegg/story-e6freoof-1226537614122

My opinion (and that is all it is), is that after ABC found out about the affair with TM (around Sept 2011), that she demanded that the loan to TM be repaid pronto. Hence the pressure (and the tears) from GBC to find an alternate lender.

 

[marlywings]

My opinion (and that is all it is), is that after ABC found out about the affair with TM (around Sept 2011), that she demanded that the loan to TM be repaid pronto. Hence the pressure (and the tears) from GBC to find an alternate lender.

I doubt Allison would have even known about the loan from TM. GBC didn't ask Flegg for the loan until December 2011...then again in March 2012. I think he over borrowed & as I said, didn't have the experience to pull himself out of it.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

I doubt Allison would have even known about the loan from TM. GBC didn't ask Flegg for the loan until December 2011...then again in March 2012. I think he over borrowed & as I said, didn't have the experience to pull himself out of it.

I guess the money motive comes down to opinion and conjecture only - but I still don't think that his financial situation would have prevented him from buying a replacement phone when the police took his iPhone from him. Perhaps it was offered to him. We don't know. It just seems a bit suss to me! (all IMO).

 

[Makara]

What loan to TM? Was there ever a loan to TM??

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

What loan to TM? Was there ever a loan to TM??

Yes, and I am pretty sure that it was listed in the amounts owed in MSM somewhere after the second bail hearing. I will try to find a link.

 

[Liadan]

Please refresh my memory - I must have been under a mushroom but when was it reported anywhere that GBC was in debt to TM?

Jinx Makara!

 

[BreakingNews]

i'm pretty sure it was the pay phone just down from his office. IMO.

What makes you so sure? Has this been in msm?

 

[marlywings]

Yes I'd like to have this clarified as well Makara.

Redlightthroughpaper....could you clarify this "loan to TM" for us please??

My opinion (and that is all it is), is that after ABC found out about the affair with TM (around Sept 2011), that she demanded that the loan to TM be repaid pronto. Hence the pressure (and the tears) from GBC to find an alternate lender.

 

[BreakingNews]

What loan to TM? Was there ever a loan to TM??

I don't think there was mention of a loan from TM - was not in the bail documents anyway.

GBC had to keep up appearances and I doubt that he had any money. He lived a champagne lifestyle on a beer salary. Debt is an awful thing. The more you try to dig yourself out of it, the deeper in debt you become. You cannot simply rob Peter to pay Paul forever.