Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[Malkmus]

I will leave you to your regularly scheduled programing. At least you were listening to The Machine's 'predictions'. dgfred meets usual brick wall when posting with dedicated supporter. I don't know why you ask me stuff then don't agree with anything, don't really argue but just say I am wrong.

I asked you what the developments were in the MOF that you said had happened. You didn't say what they were. What exactly am I supposed to agree or disagree with there? I like discussing facts, not vague innuendo.

Anyway, I saw after this post you have linked to a TJMK story about it. It was hard to decipher, so I can see why you had a hard time articulating what was actually going on. So over the weekend I dug up an actual news story that explains what happened. The SC has overturned the charges issued by Florentine prosecutors against Guittari and Mignini for abuse of office. The charges were overturned due to it being out of Florence's jurisdiction, not because the charges were unfounded. Keep in mind the only time a jury weighed in on this matter they did find all the wiretapping to be illegal. Not that this matters much, but it has no ramifications for Douglas Preston or Amanda Knox or Raffaele Sollecito, as you had previously alluded. Is Mignini off on a technicality that a jury had nothing to do with? Yes. So, good news for him.

Here's the story: "The Sixth Criminal Chamber of the Supreme Court confirmed the cancellation of convictions for abuse of office infitte Michele Giuttari pm and Giuliano Mignini, prepared by the appeals court in Florence on November 22, 2011 for lack of territorial jurisdiction of the Florentine magistrates."

http://www.agi.it/cronaca/notizie/2...e_cassazione_no_condanne_a_giuttari_e_mignini

I know better than you have not been keeping up What? Is JREF out of the loop now? I don't have to back up my opinion... because that is what it is/was.

First, I have not been keeping up, which is why I politely askeed you what the developments were that you were talking about. I didn't realize it was going to be like pulling teeth to get that information.
Second, no you don't have to back up your opinion if you don't want to. However, it comes off as misleading when the facts do turn up and it has nothing to do with Preston or Sfarzo.

If you think Frank has done no harm... Brucie didn't either. Same-same. In my who-cares opinion it does.

Again, what harm do you think he's done? I have cited multiple times in the past journalists who have either misinterpreted the facts in the Kercher case, or printed completely false information that changed the course of people's opinions on guilt or innocence. You have not done, nor do you seem able to, the same for Frank.

If you think the MOF is going well for Preston...

I don't think Preston has anything to do with the case since he left Italy years ago. It is you who thinks he is somewhow involved and facing some undisclosed danger.

there is not much to say to that except you must not have researched it much lately. Innuendo or not.

See the above news article.

Either Frank has lied to Preston or both are in on the deception of Mignini being the source of his problem in Italy.

Hard to argue Mignini not being a source of problems when he is the one who had Perugia Shock taken down, and has a habit of suing everyone who badmouths him.

If you think RS telling lies and making stuff up about a MURDER in his book doesn't effect his/their case then IMO you have not noticed he is being SUED for it.

Mignini suing is completely different from the SC examining the case.

If you think the prosecution's appeal doesn't change anything... IMO that is only hope.

Again, there is nothing in the prosecution's appeal that points to the lovebirds' guilt that wasn't already argued in court.

Probably wouldn't have changed the appeal decision by Hellmann... looks like he was on a mission. I don't see how basically breaking Italian law with his decisions is something solid to rely on... but it seems it is so with some. I am just wanting/waiting for March 24th to set things right again.

If he broke the law it should be a home-run for the prosecution.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Here is a MOF update at True Justice for Meredith Kercher.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php



There is also an article about Jody Arias similarities below the MOF one .

:floorlaugh:

That's not a credible website. The guy who runs it is a conspiracy theory lunatic.

Apparently he's been sending out some pretty strange emails lately about masons and what not.

http://saberpoint.blogspot.com/2013/02/anti-knox-blogger-peter-quennell-sends.html

Peter Quennell writes:

The campaign to try to isolate Mignini (and Giuttari) is essentially the work of masons, trying to look after their own kind.
The Knox appeal judges who let her go on first appeal were both masons.

Stay away from the fringe websites.

 

[dgfred]

Haha. Y'all are a trip. Talk about a conspiracy, wow. Calling a prosecutor in another country an 'imbecile' in an avatar doesn't lend itself to credibility IMO.

Less than a month to go. I would think the two previously convicted killers are getting a little antsy. They should be IMO.

 

[Malkmus]

Calling a prosecutor in another country an 'imbecile' in an avatar doesn't lend itself to credibility IMO.

There are plenty of reasons to label someone an imbecile when they are convicted by a jury for abuse of office, are on record lying about the reasons for not recording an interrogation, are under investigation for wasting $240000 of public funds on a re-enactment of his version of the murder, when they sue the parents of a defendant for simply repeating what she said, and they obstruct justice by withholding important files from the defense.

So, what are your reasons for calling a Wikipedia editor, who made claims that Candace Dempsey was harassed, a "fat *advertiser censored*" today on PMF?

http://perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=105249#p105249

Less than a month to go. I would think the two previously convicted killers are getting a little antsy. They should be IMO.

Since you haven't given one reason for why the prosecution's appeal is so strong, should we just label this wishful thinking?

 

[dgfred]

At least you are reading pmf too . You will catch up quick enough then.

If you noticed the poster above me on pmf posted about the name (SlimVirgin) maybe being wishful thinking... then I made the post that fat *advertiser censored* would maybe be the opposite.
Sounds like her, Bruce and Frank might get along just peachy. Conning, lying and deflecting facts to suit an agenda. What is so hard about the truth and honesty with that crowd?

If that is your reasoning maybe you should put Mignini as an imbecile in your avatar too. Tho I doubt anyone making it to the post of prosecutor is an imbecile... that is your call.
The reasons posted were/are pretty weak IMO.

I will place another in the no credibility file. Don't blame the group for being a little testy either. Antsy/testy... must be a virus. Just best to avoid falling cards as the house crumbles IMO.

 

[Malkmus]

At least you are reading pmf too . You will catch up quick enough then.

If you noticed the poster above me on pmf posted about the name (SlimVirgin) maybe being wishful thinking... then I made the post that fat *advertiser censored* would maybe be the opposite.
Sounds like her, Bruce and Frank might get along just peachy. Conning, lying and deflecting facts to suit an agenda. What is so hard about the truth and honesty with that crowd?

If that is your reasoning maybe you should put Mignini as an imbecile in your avatar too. Tho I doubt anyone making it to the post of prosecutor is an imbecile... that is your call.
The reasons posted were/are pretty weak IMO.

I will place another in the no credibility file. Don't blame the group for being a little testy either. Antsy/testy... must be a virus. Just best to avoid falling cards as the house crumbles IMO.

Fred, sincerely, your posts are becoming harder and harder to understand. Apparently you'd rather just criticize others' uses of their avatars while at the same time making crude jokes about a woman's screen name, and generalize about anyone who doesn't think the lovebirds are guilty. Perhaps after the SC ruling you'll be open to actually discussing the facts of the case.

 

[MichaelSmith]

dgfred what is the evidence against Rudy Guede? What role did he play?

 

[Monzoo]

At least you are reading pmf too . You will catch up quick enough then.

If you noticed the poster above me on pmf posted about the name (SlimVirgin) maybe being wishful thinking... then I made the post that fat *advertiser censored* would maybe be the opposite.
Sounds like her, Bruce and Frank might get along just peachy. Conning, lying and deflecting facts to suit an agenda. What is so hard about the truth and honesty with that crowd?

If that is your reasoning maybe you should put Mignini as an imbecile in your avatar too. Tho I doubt anyone making it to the post of prosecutor is an imbecile... that is your call.
The reasons posted were/are pretty weak IMO.

I will place another in the no credibility file. Don't blame the group for being a little testy either. Antsy/testy... must be a virus. Just best to avoid falling cards as the house crumbles IMO.

Fred, could you interpret this for those of us who don't read PMF? I am having a really hard time following what you are trying to say.

As an aside, I am also uncomfortable about personal attacks on people posting on this case. I don't know who slimvirgin is, (is that a PMF poster who is pro AK and RS? Do they even allow pro-innocence posters there? ) but I find calling her names to be childish. If you did call her fat *advertiser censored*, I think you should apologize to her.

 

[Footwarrior]

A post on PMF supporting the idea that AK or RS are innocent usually results in the poster being banned. It is a support group for believers in a certain narrative rather than a forum for open discussion of the case.

 

[Malkmus]

There was some news this week as the lawsuit against a tv station and Rafaelle's family for showing crime scene footage that was uncensored was dropped. At least against the Sollecitos, as most likely, IMO, they had nothing to do with not censoring the video. The journalists remain under investigation.

http://www.umbria24.it/bari-filmato...ne-per-i-giornalisti-di-telenorba/152774.html

 

[MsJ]

Pacelli, Lumumba's lawyer, under investigation for fraud and calunnia:

http://www.umbria24.it/perugia-truf...gato-lavvocato-di-patrick-lumumba/155568.html

Napoleoni suspended:

http://www.umbria24.it/perugia-acce...icidi-e-due-agenti-della-questura/155595.html

 

[Malkmus]

Supreme Court hearing is Monday.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/03/amanda-knox-legal-drama-not-quite-over/

Knox, now a student at the University of Washington, will not be present for Monday’s hearing. If prosecutors are successful, Knox and Sollecito will face a re-trial.

Her memoir,”Waiting to Be Heard,” published by HarperCollins, will be released April 30.

 

[otto]

There are plenty of reasons to label someone an imbecile when they are convicted by a jury for abuse of office, are on record lying about the reasons for not recording an interrogation, are under investigation for wasting $240000 of public funds on a re-enactment of his version of the murder, when they sue the parents of a defendant for simply repeating what she said, and they obstruct justice by withholding important files from the defense.

So, what are your reasons for calling a Wikipedia editor, who made claims that Candace Dempsey was harassed, a "fat *advertiser censored*" today on PMF?

http://perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=105249#p105249



Since you haven't given one reason for why the prosecution's appeal is so strong, should we just label this wishful thinking?

Are all prosecutors that include computer generated re-enactments in a court case imbeciles?

 

[otto]

It's good to see that everyone is excited about the upcoming decision!

 

[otto]

So much has been said about the computer generated re-enactment used in the Italian courts ... to the extent that one might believe that it is unheard of in any other courtroom/country, or that only an 'imbecilic person' would use such modern methods.

"The California Supreme Court, in upholding a death sentence yesterday, approved the use of a computer-generated animation to show jurors how the prosecution contended the crime occurred. The opinion, by Justice Joyce Kennard, affirms the judgment in the case of Enrique Parra Duenas, a motorcyclist who fatally shot a sheriff’s deputy who wanted him to stop to submit to questioning. Witnessing the shooting was a prostitute, with whom the deputy had been speaking prior to encountering Duenas. The animation was of four minutes duration. It was created by an expert in “biomechanics”—combining principles of engineering and physics—and her son, experienced in computer graphics.

It was based on the police report, coroner’s report, photographs, and crime-scene measurements.

Before it was shown, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Dewey Falcone explained to jurors:

“What you’re going to see is an animation based on a compilation of different expert opinions. This is similar to the expert using charts or diagrams to demonstrate their respective opinion. This is not a film of what actually occurred or an exact re-creation. It is only an aid to giving you a view as to the prosecution version of the events based upon particular viewpoints and based upon interpretation of the evidence.”

http://www.metnews.com/articles/2012/animation080712.htm

"Failure Analysis Associates, which has been known primarily for its work on behalf of the auto industry in product liability cases, used state-of-the-art computer imaging techniques to recreate the crime scene scenario that prosecutors used in the trial that led to the conviction of the Menendez brothers for killing their parents. Roger McCarthy, ..."

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=167394

If the problem is with cost of computer generated re-enactments, rather than its use, perhaps there needs to be an accompanying salary breakdown for professionals in Italy so we can independantly decide whether engineers, biomechanics experts and computer graphics experts deserve the compensation that they would have received for the work in the Knox/Sollecito trials.

This is the software that was used for the re-enactment: http://usa.autodesk.com/3ds-max/

 

[Malkmus]

Are all prosecutors that include computer generated re-enactments in a court case imbeciles?

Since I made a rather lengthy list of the things Mignini has done to deserve that title, your question doesn't make sense.

 

[Malkmus]

So much has been said about the computer generated re-enactment used in the Italian courts ... to the extent that one might believe that it is unheard of in any other courtroom/country, or that only an 'imbecilic person' would use such modern methods.

"The California Supreme Court, in upholding a death sentence yesterday, approved the use of a computer-generated animation to show jurors how the prosecution contended the crime occurred. The opinion, by Justice Joyce Kennard, affirms the judgment in the case of Enrique Parra Duenas, a motorcyclist who fatally shot a sheriff’s deputy who wanted him to stop to submit to questioning. Witnessing the shooting was a prostitute, with whom the deputy had been speaking prior to encountering Duenas. The animation was of four minutes duration. It was created by an expert in “biomechanics”—combining principles of engineering and physics—and her son, experienced in computer graphics.

It was based on the police report, coroner’s report, photographs, and crime-scene measurements.

Before it was shown, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Dewey Falcone explained to jurors:

“What you’re going to see is an animation based on a compilation of different expert opinions. This is similar to the expert using charts or diagrams to demonstrate their respective opinion. This is not a film of what actually occurred or an exact re-creation. It is only an aid to giving you a view as to the prosecution version of the events based upon particular viewpoints and based upon interpretation of the evidence.”

http://www.metnews.com/articles/2012/animation080712.htm

"Failure Analysis Associates, which has been known primarily for its work on behalf of the auto industry in product liability cases, used state-of-the-art computer imaging techniques to recreate the crime scene scenario that prosecutors used in the trial that led to the conviction of the Menendez brothers for killing their parents. Roger McCarthy, ..."

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=167394

If the problem is with cost of computer generated re-enactments, rather than its use, perhaps there needs to be an accompanying salary breakdown for professionals in Italy so we can independantly decide whether engineers, biomechanics experts and computer graphics experts deserve the compensation that they would have received for the work in the Knox/Sollecito trials.

This is the software that was used for the re-enactment: http://usa.autodesk.com/3ds-max/

We had the same discussion almost a year ago, and since nothing has changed I think it would be a good idea to re-read it:

NOTGUILTY Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 - Page 12 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[otto]

Since I made a rather lengthy list of the things Mignini has done to deserve that title, your question doesn't make sense.

The question makes sense. I have chosen to address one of the items in the list, rather than the entire list. That is, one of the reasons given for calling a prosecutor an imbecile is based on the opinion that it was inappropriate to include a computer generated re-enactment during the trial. I have to wonder if all prosecutors, or only Italian prosecutors, that use computer generated re-enactments can be considered to be "imbeciles".

 

[otto]

We had the same discussion almost a year ago, and since nothing has changed I think it would be a good idea to re-read it:

NOTGUILTY Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 - Page 12 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

There continues to be debate and criticism regarding the use of computer generated re-enactments during trial, even though the practice is widely used. I would hope that opinions regarding this practice have become more informed over the last few years., so I'm curious why it continues to be a reason for criticism.

 

[otto]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ays-hearing-address-unanswered-questions.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp=51308344?