Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#6

[SMK]

The psychology of motive...We are now supposed to believe that it all started over excrement left in the toilet? And then what happened? Amanda gets the knife from her purse, stabs Meredith with Raffaele and Rudy helping to restrain her. And then Meredith is sexually assaulted as she is dying or dead. Or is it an argument over the poop leads to Rudy assaulting Meredith and then Amanda and Raffaele join in, Amanda wielding a knife. Or is it.........? It's beyond ludicrous, IMO.

No cogent argument has ever been presented by the prosecution, IMO. in the US, prosecutors are not required to state a motive. In Italy, prosecutors have to present a theory of the crime. (at least that's how I understand it) this is the best they can do??

I believe excrement left in the toilet is a very poor motive for murder. I think IF Knox and Sollecito were involved, (and I take NOTHING for granted ) it would be an altercation with more subtle origins and something that escalated suddenly and unexpectedly. Something that ought to have been anticipated, but was not.

 

[redheadedgal]

Here is the defense case on that pillow print. As I suspected, they argue that it is a partial print of RG and the expert testified that it matches RG. This is probably something the court should have had an independent expert also evaluate to buttress that conclusion.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-04.html

i posted this either last week or the week before too...

 

[Steely Dan]

"According to Pasquali, the rock was thrown from a terrace across from the window, making the glass "explode" on the inside and spreading glass fragments everywhere on the inside and the outside of the windowsill." ABC news. Recently a British TV station did a reconstruction as well.

I used to have a full bookmark folder of links for this case, but I deleted it when she was found guilty. Now when I enter familiar terms into Google all I get is new stuff that has nothing to do with the old links I had. So I'm going on memory for a lot of this stuff.

 

[SMK]

Actually what happened w the mixed DNA could be this:AK DNA (not blood) was already on the floor pre murder, it is common to leave DNA in your own home. During the murder, a droplet of MK blood happened to fall on that profile of AK DNA. It could also have been the case there was mixed MK and other roommate DNA (not blood) all over the place but the prosecution did not test all over.

I could see this scenario, Ak walked around barefoot, left that print at some point in F's room. After the murder, RG was leaving, perhaps his hand was bleeding, maybe he had a dripping knifes etc. That drop of blood fell on top of AK's profile. AK's profile could have been all over those floors so any droplet of blood would have ended up somewhere on her DNA creating the mixed profile

So any of these scenarios, either AK DNA was pre murder and the above happened OR AK w wet foot stepped in dried blood.

I would agree that dna and mixed dna would be far more convincing had Knox never lived at that cottage, or visited it. It is difficult to take dna seriously when someone had been all over the place for 6 weeks. On the other hand, the the Court had said there would be no other occasion except presence at the murder to leave certain traces. I am trying to take them at their word....

 

[Yellow]

I would agree that dna and mixed dna would be far more convincing had Knox never lived at that cottage, or visited it. It is difficult to take dna seriously when someone had been all over the place for 6 weeks. On the other hand, the the Court had said there would be no other occasion except presence at the murder to leave certain traces. I am trying to take them at their word....

That is why the case against RG is so convincing. AK and RG were helped by RG being in the picture bc I think there would be more doubt amount the American public about their guilt if the perp was not caught

The SC of Italy cannot fact find and the appellate court last time simply did not go through all the different scenarios like it should have. So the SC had no choice but to bless the lower court's first version of events, it had no right to independently evaluate some of the arguments about the footprints which were not dealt w adequately in the appellate court report. So we cannot really say that the SC necessarily agrees with those views ; bc the appellate court did not rule on some of these issues, the SC had no power to alter the 1stcourts findings, hopefully the new appeals court will make more detailed rulings,

 

[otto]

So Meredith cut herself on some other day, went into Filomena's room, and smeared her blood on that window??

Does that make sense or does it make sense that the blood and glass all were related TO THE NIGHT OF THE MURDER, where there was a broken window and a victim who was stabbed and BLED TO DEATH.

I'm sorry, but what lengths do we have to go to to distort the evidence!!

The evidence is on broken glass. It's highly unlikely that it is only on one surface of that piece of glass ... more likely that it is in an area that could only be accessed if it was broken before the blood and DNA was left on the glass.

To what lengths ... indeed!

 

[sherlockh]

BTW, Luminol will react to bleach; http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol3.htm

...If luminol reveals apparent blood traces, investigators will photograph or videotape the crime scene to record the pattern. Typically, luminol only shows investigators that there might be blood in an area, since other substances, including household bleach, can also cause the luminol to glow. Experienced investigators can make a reliable identification based on how quickly the reaction occurs, but they still need to run other tests to verify that it is really human blood....

...A murderer can dispose of the victim's body and mop up the pools of blood, but without some heavy-duty cleaning chemicals, some evidence will remain. Tiny particles of blood will cling to most surfaces for years and years, without anyone ever knowing they're there....

Bleach evaporates within days. The Luminol tests were done after 6 weeks. They do this for a reason. That there was no DNA found in every trace only confirms that there was very little blood. The traces were invisible as in cleaned, so there is no chance Knox could have tracked blood around the next morning. Knox should have said that besides a shower, she just so happened to have been cleaning that morning, but she didn't. There is no excuse for the Luminol traces.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Luminol_Traces

The mixed DNA spot in Filomena's room was on the floor. I don't think it was ever said it was on glass. In the previous appeal trial it was even said it was a footprint. That would make sense, but I don't remember seeing a picture of that spot.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Luminol_Traces#Reps_176_and_177_in_Filomena.27s_Room

 

[otto]

The psychology of motive...We are now supposed to believe that it all started over excrement left in the toilet? And then what happened? Amanda gets the knife from her purse, stabs Meredith with Raffaele and Rudy helping to restrain her. And then Meredith is sexually assaulted as she is dying or dead. Or is it an argument over the poop leads to Rudy assaulting Meredith and then Amanda and Raffaele join in, Amanda wielding a knife. Or is it.........? It's beyond ludicrous, IMO.

No cogent argument has ever been presented by the prosecution, IMO. in the US, prosecutors are not required to state a motive. In Italy, prosecutors have to present a theory of the crime. (at least that's how I understand it) this is the best they can do??

BBM

I don't think that the prosecutor said that. From following the tweets in court on Monday/Tuesday, I understood that it started over Knox's disrespectful behavior and habits. Meredith was at home studying when Knox came to the cottage with two strange men, stoned and ready to party. That "invasion" is what started the conflict.

However, if the objective is to ridicule Meredith Kercher's murder trial, then by all mean ... talk feces!

 

[otto]

Who here would like to share a bathroom with someone like Knox for six weeks, regularly finding her feces in the toilet? Is it difficult to understand how this could become a point of conflict?

 

[SMK]

Who here would like to share a bathroom with someone like Knox for six weeks, regularly finding her feces in the toilet? Is it difficult to understand how this could become a point of conflict?

Was this actually the case? (I am asking seriously) I had thought the conflict re the bathroom had only to do with Knox not cleaning it enough. ugh

 

[otto]

Was this actually the case? (I am asking seriously) I had thought the conflict re the bathroom had only to do with Knox not cleaning it enough. ugh

That is certainly one of the problems that upset Meredith. Knox did not flush the toilet. The defense debate claims that European toilets are different and that Knox simply didn't know how to use them, but one would hope that Knox could learn this skill after six weeks.

"Robyn Butterworth, one of the last people to see Miss Kercher alive, said the pair had quarrelled because Knox often failed to flushed the toilet, even when menstruating."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569579/Vital-clues-in-Meredith-Kercher-murder-case.html

 

[SMK]

That is certainly one of the problems that upset Meredith. Knox did not flush the toilet. The defense debate claims that European toilets are different and that Knox simply didn't know how to use them, but one would hope that Knox could learn this skill after six weeks.

"Robyn Butterworth, one of the last people to see Miss Kercher alive, said the pair had quarrelled because Knox often failed to flushed the toilet, even when menstruating."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569579/Vital-clues-in-Meredith-Kercher-murder-case.html

OK. I think I understand, having just looked this up. Knox was used to American plumbing which is powerful---apparently in Europe, you have to clean after you flush (I never noticed this in London, Liverpool or Paris - but maybe this is different.) So I am hoping she flushed but forgot to clean. No wonder Rudy left his; he probably didn't flush hard enough or something......The things we take for granted in the US....

 

[MichaelSmith]

Meredith's blood and Knox's DNA were on a piece of broken glass in Filomina's bedroom. Other than the night of the murder, the window was not broken and there was no glass on the floor, so the evidence can be dated to the night of the murder.

Why make stuff up? That's simply not true.

 

[otto]

OK. I think I understand, having just looked this up. Knox was used to American plumbing which is powerful---apparently in Europe, you have to clean after you flush (I never noticed this in London, Liverpool or Paris - but maybe this is different.) So I am hoping she flushed but forgot to clean. No wonder Rudy left his; he probably didn't flush hard enough or something......The things we take for granted in the US....

One would hope that Knox could have learned how to use the toilet before she got to Italy or, after getting there, she could have learned the skill. It should not have been an ongoing problem.

 

[MichaelSmith]

BBM---Anyone know why there was a strong smell of bleach at RS's apt, but NOT at the cottage?

There wasn't. His apartment had been cleaned by his cleaner with Lysoform.

 

[Sigh Sister]

BBM

I don't think that the prosecutor said that. From following the tweets in court on Monday/Tuesday, I understood that it started over Knox's disrespectful behavior and habits. Meredith was at home studying when Knox came to the cottage with two strange men, stoned and ready to party. That "invasion" is what started the conflict.

However, if the objective is to ridicule Meredith Kercher's murder trial, then by all mean ... talk feces!

I am ridiculing the prosecution who has made this trial a farce. Crini brought the feces into it and deserves to be ridiculed. He DID say this, Otto. I'm not making it up.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...rdict-for-Amanda-Knox-233455231.html?mobile=y

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/...apons+contaminated+belongs/9213668/story.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...f34806-568e-11e3-bdbf-097ab2a3dc2b_story.html

 

[MichaelSmith]

And when was that mixed sample left in Filomina's room? Is it not reasonable to conclude that at some point in time that Meredith was bleeding and Amanda was helping to stop the bleeding while in the room? If so then there is the reasonable doubt needed to eliminate that mixture of DNA.

http://hellmannreport.wordpress.com...by-luminol-without-useful-biological-profile/

http://hellmannreport.wordpress.com...ed-by-luminol-with-useful-biological-profile/

The sample in Filoemnas room was LCN for Amanda and tested negative for blood. Strangely they never photographed it.

 

[otto]

Why make stuff up? That's simply not true.

It seems that I was mistaken about the mixed sample being on glass. Sorry if I caused any confusion. That was my understanding until today.

 

[SMK]

One would hope that Knox could have learned how to use the toilet before she got to Italy or, after getting there, she could have learned the skill. It should not have been an ongoing problem.

Well, I began researching the toilet issue, and now I am reading more about Amanda's behavior. I would call her passive-aggressive, if what I am reading is true. (Darkness Descending). And that is a most unpleasant disorder to deal with in a person.

 

[otto]

I am ridiculing the prosecution who has made this trial a farce. Crini brought the feces into it and deserves to be ridiculed. He DID say this, Otto. I'm not making it up.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...rdict-for-Amanda-Knox-233455231.html?mobile=y

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/...apons+contaminated+belongs/9213668/story.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...f34806-568e-11e3-bdbf-097ab2a3dc2b_story.html

I can understand that Meredith was upset with how Knox conducted herself at the cottage.