Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#6

[aa9511]

Filomina has never given a clear answer as to how the shutters to the window in her room where the night of the murder. She has said at one point that they were closed. At another point she said they were slightly open, she thinks, and that she couldn't remember exactly how she left them.

If she lived in that room, I would think she would know more than we do about the window and shutters in her own room

There is no reason to suspect Filomena would lie. We have gotten so used to Amanda's lies that we think everyone must be lying, and so we question and question.

 

[aa9511]

It would be wonderful if instead of ignoring or failing to read previous posts that clearly have answers to later questions, that all of the posts are read and then if needed questions asked.

I have stated in a previous post how Meredith and Amanda's mixed sample could have been on the window at some time prior to the night of the murder.

Once again we do not know the full history of any and all small accidents that may have occurred to Meredith during her entire time living in the cottage. We do not know how many times she may have had a minor bleeding episode. We also do not know if at any time Amanda helped Meredith during those times nor in what room they were in. There are numerous reasons that can be given for a small mixed sample of DNA from Meredith and Amanda to be on a piece of glass in a room in the cottage that they shared.

Sorry, I don't know whether this post is directed at me or not. But I know I personally read the posts in the order they are in, and sometimes I'm writing a post or response to post, and the thread has already moved ahead a page. So that could be the reason sometimes there are delays in the reading of posts.

No, there are not numerous reasons. Amanda and Meredith had not been living in that cottage for many years. Even someone living in someplace for a long time, numbers of years, I find those set of coincidences to be HIGHLY UNLIKELY AND not reasonable. That someone's blood and someone else' DNA mix and end up on a window somehow, the very people who end up possibly being involved in a murder as suspect and victim, and the glass in that very window involved in that same murder.

I think if you told anyone on the street that story, they would not buy it.

 

[Yellow]

The mixed DNA in Laura's room was Merediths' DNA IN BLOOD, mixed with Amanda's DNA.

So are you saying Meredith got up while being stabbed, went to Laura's room, deposited some of her blood there (oh and also to the small bathroom), then went back to her room, where she allowed them to finish murdering her?

No, rg leaving the murder room could have tracked DNA out of that room and AK stepped in that. I think at some point RG had towels involved if I recall, some of the blood could have dropped on the floor. Or the blood in the bathroom, did that test positive for MK DNA? AK could have stepped in the bathmat and then tracked it in the hallway

RG could been carrying the dirty weapon out of the house, w blood dripping off the knife. AK then stepped in that.

AK could also have tracked in RG bloody prints without knowing it. Her DNA was not found in those prints bc apparently DNA is not always left in blood. Just note the instances of them claiming the luminol indicates MK blood yet not her DNA.

At least 3 samples of MR's blood yet none of her DNA? That is weird, and raises doubts on whether the substance reacting w luminol is blood

How do we know too that AK came in the house that night after the murder, maybe even saw the bloody scene and tracked stuff around then? We don't. She is lying about being in the house that night, but not about being the murderer

 

[aa9511]

The mixed DNA was in who's room? Considering that the broken window was in Filomina's room then how is the mixed DNA in Laura's room on broken window glass?

LOL sorry...confusion with names! LOL!

 

[aa9511]

I have gone through the problems/remaining questions with the luminol testing in this case in five entries at my blog, the most recent of which is here.

Chris_H, I will have to go back tomorrow or some other time to look at those entries. My brain has had Luminol/DNA overload for today! :scared::scared:

 

[Sigh Sister]

So are you of the opinion that jurors should single out every piece of evidence and make up a story in their mind to explain it?

Hellmann was annulled largely on this point, he failed to look at the whole picture.

IMO, the problem in this case is the prosecution did not paint a clear picture. They presented a Rorschach test instead. And now with Crini, a Rorschach test with a side of poo. Reasonable doubt is abundant.

 

[SMK]

Wow! Thank you for putting that together. That summary of testimony with references certainly explains the basis for the prosecution conjecture about motive.

It also answers the question about the washing machine where three witnesses believed that the laundry had just been done.

But in light of BBM : As someone posted on another forum, why would Knox NOT have put the bathmat with the bloody print in the washer? Otto, what do you think? Was it: a. no time. Interrupted by postals. b. deliberately leaving some clues as to the mishap?

 

[aa9511]

No, rg leaving the murder room could have tracked DNA out of that room and AK stepped in that. I think at some point RG had towels involved if I recall, some of the blood could have dropped on the floor. Or the blood in the bathroom, did that test positive for MK DNA? AK could have stepped in the bathmat and then tracked it in the hallway

RG could been carrying the dirty weapon out of the house, w blood dripping off the knife. AK then stepped in that.

AK could also have tracked in RG bloody prints without knowing it. Her DNA was not found in those prints bc apparently DNA is not always left in blood. Just note the instances of them claiming the luminol indicates MK blood yet not her DNA.

At least 3 samples of MR's blood yet none of her DNA? That is weird, and raises doubts on whether the substance reacting w luminol is blood

How do we know too that AK came in the house that night after the murder, maybe even saw the bloody scene and tracked stuff around then? We don't. She is lying about being in the house that night, but not about being the murderer

Now hold on a sec.

Blood on footprints which got fainter and fainter with each step, would have partially, if not all the way, dried. How is it that Amanda was able to leave her full footprint in blood, having stepped on leftovers from Rudy's footprints??

There would be scattering of Luminol traces, not distinct footprints.

Same with the drippings from the knife. That is impossible as how do you form a footprint from vertical drippings on the floor? Did the drippings magically WHISH together and form a footprint, like magic carpet ride or something? I didn't realize we were dealing with Harry Potter (no pun intended for Amanda's interest in Harry Potter).

The footprints were left as the result of the bottom of Amanda's foot resting in Meredith's blood. The no-Meredith DNA, I am still confused about that. But just because there is confusion regarding that for me personally, doesn't mean I'm going to believe things which are not possible.

The footprints as a result of contact with the bathmat footprint is impossible. That was blood absorbed by the mat. There was not enough blood there for it to get on Amanda's foot covering the bottom of her foot, and then last for several footsteps. Impossible, absolutely impossible.

So Ak is possibly lying about being in the house that night, but NOT lying about not participating in the murder? What about the evidence on Meredith's body which shows evidence of mutiple attackers? What about the evidence of a staged burglary? So she was maybe in the house......Meredith was killed by more than one attacker....but oh yeah, no, she had nothing to do with it. And she was there after the murder and covered it up? But she had nothing to do with it?

 

[SMK]

IMO, the problem in this case is the prosecution did not paint a clear picture. They presented a Rorschach test instead. And now with Crini, a Rorschach test with a side of poo. Reasonable doubt is abundant.

Ha, a clever way of putting it .

Yes, reasonable doubt remains a real possibility. I don't think anyone can take the upholding of the convictions for granted in any way. The defense will shoot as many holes as they can, raising red flags of doubt for the jurors. Of course, strong indicators of staging/clean up and a possible psychology of motive may make things go the other way, as well....

 

[Steely Dan]

I am probably missing your point with respect to the shutters. If they were open, I don't see how they could obstruct a throw from the parking area (I believe that the parking area is the spot that Pasquali chose, but I may be mistaken). As for Filomena's testimony, she became more certain with time that she had closed them. Even if one grants that she was right, opening them is not a big deal, as my previous post outlines.

With respect to the YSTR profile on the clasp, I have examined the egram myself, and there are several contributors besides Sollecito. Conti and Vecchiotti say the same thing in their definitive report. I believe that I provided a quote in the previous thread.

With respect to themurderofmeredithkercher, I found some errors in it, as I wrote in a comment two threads ago. Let the buyer beware.

BBM

IIRC, the testimony was that a rock could have been thrown from the balcony.

 

[aa9511]

Ok all, I am off. I hope those in the U.S. have a Happy Thanksgiving! I am going to visit family and will not be taking my laptop, I think the break from here will be good for me! LOL!

So I will catch up to you all in a few days, probably will miss a lot but I'm sure it's going to come round in circle shortly.....we seem to rotate every topic around and around in circles so I know what I missed will come back on again. LOL!

 

[SMK]

Ok all, I am off. I hope those in the U.S. have a Happy Thanksgiving! I am going to visit family and will not be taking my laptop, I think the break from here will be good for me! LOL!

So I will catch up to you all in a few days, probably will miss a lot but I'm sure it's going to come round in circle shortly.....we seem to rotate every topic around and around in circles so I know what I missed will come back on again. LOL!

Happy TG- have a safe and happy trip. Knox and Sollecito will keep til you are back.

 

[Yellow]

Chris_H, I will have to go back tomorrow or some other time to look at those entries. My brain has had Luminol/DNA overload for today! :scared::scared:

Yes these posts explain why you would do the t tests and why the results from that are important, it also explains your questions about sensitivities, the author is a biochemist so he would know more than any of us about these tests

 

[Yellow]

Now hold on a sec.

Blood on footprints which got fainter and fainter with each step, would have partially, if not all the way, dried. How is it that Amanda was able to leave her full footprint in blood, having stepped on leftovers from Rudy's footprints??

There would be scattering of Luminol traces, not distinct footprints.

Same with the drippings from the knife. That is impossible as how do you form a footprint from vertical drippings on the floor? Did the drippings magically WHISH together and form a footprint, like magic carpet ride or something? I didn't realize we were dealing with Harry Potter (no pun intended for Amanda's interest in Harry Potter).

The footprints were left as the result of the bottom of Amanda's foot resting in Meredith's blood. The no-Meredith DNA, I am still confused about that. But just because there is confusion regarding that for me personally, doesn't mean I'm going to believe things which are not possible.

The footprints as a result of contact with the bathmat footprint is impossible. That was blood absorbed by the mat. There was not enough blood there for it to get on Amanda's foot covering the bottom of her foot, and then last for several footsteps. Impossible, absolutely impossible.

So Ak is possibly lying about being in the house that night, but NOT lying about not participating in the murder? What about the evidence on Meredith's body which shows evidence of mutiple attackers? What about the evidence of a staged burglary? So she was maybe in the house......Meredith was killed by more than one attacker....but oh yeah, no, she had nothing to do with it. And she was there after the murder and covered it up? But she had nothing to do with it?

This is all assuming we have AK blood DNA in that mixed sample. we don't. We could have MK blood DNA from any of those scenarios that AK stepped in. MK blood DNA dripping from knife leaving the cottage or any blood droplets RG may have left. AK leaving shower steps jn that. Those would have dried by the next morning but it still may be possible to track in dried blood DNA, meaning you could still pick it up on your wet foot. The wet foot could have make it more syrupy even if dried.

Prosecution has to prove their story is the ONLY reasonable one. There are multiple scenarios that fit in with the evidence, that is enough to acquit. For her to be the murderer, where were the bloody footprints in the murder room of RS and AK? How come no blood on the knife? How come none to little MK DNA in what is suppose to be blood? Is it really blood?

Also I would be interested in how they collected that mixed sample, and in whether the video is similiar to the one for the bra.

 

[Steely Dan]

[video=vimeo;75191416]http://vimeo.com/75191416[/video]

Here is a psychiatric analysis of that interview;

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C719/

 

[Sigh Sister]

Ha, a clever way of putting it .

Yes, reasonable doubt remains a real possibility. I don't think anyone can take the upholding of the convictions for granted in any way. The defense will shoot as many holes as they can, raising red flags of doubt for the jurors. Of course, strong indicators of staging/clean up and a possible psychology of motive may make things go the other way, as well....

The psychology of motive...We are now supposed to believe that it all started over excrement left in the toilet? And then what happened? Amanda gets the knife from her purse, stabs Meredith with Raffaele and Rudy helping to restrain her. And then Meredith is sexually assaulted as she is dying or dead. Or is it an argument over the poop leads to Rudy assaulting Meredith and then Amanda and Raffaele join in, Amanda wielding a knife. Or is it.........? It's beyond ludicrous, IMO.

No cogent argument has ever been presented by the prosecution, IMO. in the US, prosecutors are not required to state a motive. In Italy, prosecutors have to present a theory of the crime. (at least that's how I understand it) this is the best they can do??

 

[Yellow]

Actually what happened w the mixed DNA could be this:AK DNA (not blood) was already on the floor pre murder, it is common to leave DNA in your own home. During the murder, a droplet of MK blood happened to fall on that profile of AK DNA. It could also have been the case there was mixed MK and other roommate DNA (not blood) all over the place but the prosecution did not test all over.

I could see this scenario, Ak walked around barefoot, left that print at some point in F's room. After the murder, RG was leaving, perhaps his hand was bleeding, maybe he had a dripping knifes etc. That drop of blood fell on top of AK's profile. AK's profile could have been all over those floors so any droplet of blood would have ended up somewhere on her DNA creating the mixed profile

So any of these scenarios, either AK DNA was pre murder and the above happened OR AK w wet foot stepped in dried blood.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

BBM

IIRC, the testimony was that a rock could have been thrown from the balcony.

"According to Pasquali, the rock was thrown from a terrace across from the window, making the glass "explode" on the inside and spreading glass fragments everywhere on the inside and the outside of the windowsill." ABC news. Recently a British TV station did a reconstruction as well.

 

[redheadedgal]

Jason Young murdered his wife by beating her to death. No bloody clothing were found. No weapon was found. There were two footprints of different sizes on a pillow case. He alone was convicted ... meaning that bloody clothes, a weapon and proof that he was in the room at the time of the murder were not necessary for a conviction. In fact, at the time of the murder, he was hundreds of miles away at a hotel.

he obviously was not "hundreds of miles away at a hotel" at the time of the murder... why not share all the evidence?

--someone tampered with the videotaping equipment at the hotel
--searches for "head blow" and "knockout" were found on his computer

"There was nothing pointing away from him," she said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jason-young-found-guilty-murdering-wife/story?id=15852520

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/03/09/1917135/jury-head-discusses-young-verdict.html

 

[Steely Dan]

BTW, Luminol will react to bleach; http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol3.htm

...If luminol reveals apparent blood traces, investigators will photograph or videotape the crime scene to record the pattern. Typically, luminol only shows investigators that there might be blood in an area, since other substances, including household bleach, can also cause the luminol to glow. Experienced investigators can make a reliable identification based on how quickly the reaction occurs, but they still need to run other tests to verify that it is really human blood....

...A murderer can dispose of the victim's body and mop up the pools of blood, but without some heavy-duty cleaning chemicals, some evidence will remain. Tiny particles of blood will cling to most surfaces for years and years, without anyone ever knowing they're there....