ARDI -- new hope The return of the IDI

[madeleine]

I don't think it is necessarily stranger for an intruder Dave. It is strange on both accounts. Really. But, I think that if JBR was targeted and an intruder was in their house before they arrived home the intruder could have intended on abducting her. Maybe he thought he may not have the opportunity to accomplish his deed. Maybe JBR fought and he panicked. I think a lot of scenarios could be the case, but yeah it is weird. No matter RDI or IDI.

I do not think the Ramsey's needed to write a note nor did the intruder. My .02.

I agree.

If it was PR who wrote it out of panic I could understand why the rn makes no sense at all.

If it was written by an intruder.....:waitasec: God knows what he wanted to prove.

 

[Roy23]

Can anyone tell me that they know for sure JB didn't touch or hugged anyone at the White's party for this DNA... And tell me the reasoning behind FW and JR trips to the basement touching anything and everything since this was the way the intruder way out of the house..And why didn't PR recongized the bowl of pineapple but BR did...

I can tell you that with certainty that is not the case.

 

[Roy23]

What are the facts of Amy's rape, and we can compare that with the facts of JB's rape.

What does your beloved CASKU say about Amy's rapist? What's AR doing now?

Do they have DNA from Amy's attacker?

 

[mysterymax]

Does anyone know if JBR was missing any blood (besides the blood that spilled from her head)?

Thanks for the information.

 

[BBB167893]

I can tell you that with certainty that is not the case.

How can you be so sure? Sounds like a pretty good explanation to me.

 

[Roy23]

How can you be so sure? Sounds like a pretty good explanation to me.

Keep reading up on DNA Dave. They also tested all of those people including LE and Morgue personnel. But that is beside the point, because it wouldn't matter.

 

[Ravyn]

How far did the check for DNA since it is possible it wasn't left the night JB died..

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Keep reading up on DNA Dave. They also tested all of those people including LE and Morgue personnel. But that is beside the point, because it wouldn't matter.

Is that because the DNA was found in places typical for a sexual assault?

The first place innocent DNA would show up is on JBR's hands and face, because kids always touch their face with their hands. DNA that's been on JBR for more than a day is going to be on her face and hands, not exclusively in typical sexual assault locations.

 

[BBB167893]

Keep reading up on DNA Dave.

I am.

They also tested all of those people including LE and Morgue personnel.

Are you honestly telling me that they tested every single person in the morgue, every single person who was there at the crime scene, and every single person JB could have come into contact with going back who knows how long?

I realize I must seem obstinate, but to reiterate one of my favorite sayings, it's good to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out.

But that is beside the point, because it wouldn't matter.

Why not?

 

[voynich]

Do they have DNA from Amy's attacker?

No mention of DNA

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/Acquaintance-Intruder-Theories?SearchFor=amy&sp=1

Acquaintance Pedophile Stalkers

* Erotomania is another possible motivation. Suspects have included John Mark Karr, Randy Simons and the as-yet-unidentified assailant of a 14 year old who attended the same dance studio as JBR.


"Amy" Attacker
The "Amy" Attacker Theory

* Another possibility is the intruder who, just 9 months after JBR's murder, surreptitiously entered a house while mother and daughter (known as "Amy") were present and sexually assaulted a 14 year girl who attended the Dance West, the same dance studio attended by JBR; this raises the possibility that the same individual stalked JBR after noticing her at the studio.


Incriminating Evidence Against the "Amy" Attacker

* * 14-Year Old Dancer. "Nine months after the slaying of JonBenet Ramsey, a girl who attended the same dance studio as the young beauty queen and lived just two miles away was assaulted in her bed by an intruder while her mother slept nearby." Possible similarities to the JBR killing include:

1. Attended Same Dance Studio. Girl performed at same dance studio as JBR took lessons: Dance West. Thus perp may have seen both girls at the same location.
2. Public Performances. Like JBR, Amy had performed in several public functions in Boulder in the year before her death, giving the perp another potential opportunity or motive for targeting her.
3. Close Proximity in Space and Time to JBR Killing. Amy lived 2 miles from Ramseys and the assault occurred on Sept. 14, 1997, only 9 months after JBR died.
4. Ease of Entry May Denote Prior Experience. "He was like a ghost," recalls Amy's father. "We couldn't figure out where he came from, or where he went." "By the time the Boulder police arrived, the man was long gone. Because the intruder had gotten in and out of the house so easily, Amy's father began to think this wasn't the first time he had done something like this."
5. Family Away When Perp Entered House. The family was out of the house from late afternoon on the eve of the crime, until after dark. "That night, Amy's father was out of town. After catching a movie, Amy and her mother returned home late. What they didn't know when they entered the house was that there was already an intruder inside" (CBS News).
6. Perp Waited 4-6 Hours Before Entering Bedroom. The intruder may have waited at least four hours before entering Amy's second-floor bedroom. "Amy's father, who asked that his identity be obscured, agreed to talk about what happened that night: "My feeling is he got into the house while they were out and hid inside the house, so he would have been in there for perhaps four to six hours, hiding" (CBS News).
7. Sexual Assault Occurred at Night While Parent Sleeping. The perp found Amy in bed and assaulted her in the house while mother was sleeping. "Before going to bed, Amy's mother turned on the burglar alarm. Around midnight, Amy woke up to find a man standing over her bed, his hand over her mouth. "She remembered the intruder addressing her by her name," says Peterson. "He said, 'I know who you are.' He repeated those things a few times, apparently. 'I'll knock you out. Shut up.'" (CBS News).
8. Sexual Assault Included Digital Penetration and Oral Sex. Amy was sexually assaulted by penetration of finger or object and orally.​

 

[voynich]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

Like JonBenet, she took lessons at Dance West. And like JonBenet, another girl, who is identified as "Amy," was attacked and sexually assaulted at night in her own bedroom on Sept. 14, 1997.

That night, Amy's father was out of town. After catching a movie, Amy and her mother returned home late. What they didn't know when they entered the house was that there was already an intruder inside.

Amy's father, who asked that his identity be obscured, agreed to talk about what happened that night: "My feeling is he got into the house while they were out and hid inside the house, so he would have been in there for perhaps four to six hours, hiding."

Before going to bed, Amy's mother turned on the burglar alarm. Around midnight, Amy woke up to find a man standing over her bed, his hand over her mouth. "She remembered the intruder addressing her by her name," says Peterson. "He said, 'I know who you are.' He repeated those things a few times, apparently. 'I'll knock you out. Shut up.'"

Peterson says Amy's mother heard whispering, and proceeded through the doorway, and saw a person, who just brushed her aside and quickly made his escape by jumping out a second-floor window.

"He was like a ghost," recalls Amy's father. "We couldn't figure out where he came from, or where he went."

By the time the Boulder police arrived, the man was long gone. Because the intruder had gotten in and out of the house so easily, Amy's father began to think this wasn't the first time he had done something like this.

"The first thing that occurred to us was that it was the parallel to the Ramsey case because it was exactly the same situation," says Amy's father, who even told the Boulder police about the Dance West studio connection to the Ramsey case. "I think someone, somewhere, drew a bead on her. Obviously had us under surveillance that we were not aware of."

"They were very frustrated," says Peterson. "It was difficult to get them to do anything much less, you know, beyond taking a report."


That's when Amy's family hired Peterson. What he has uncovered in his investigation may not only solve Amy's case, but also help lead to the capture of JonBenet's killer.

Both JonBenet and Amy were sexually assaulted by an intruder at night in their homes -- within nine months of each other. Fiber evidence shows that JonBenet's attacker may have been wearing black, as was the man who attacked Amy

​

 

[BBB167893]

Is that because the DNA was found in places typical for a sexual assault?

The first place innocent DNA would show up is on JBR's hands and face, because kids always touch their face with their hands. DNA that's been on JBR for more than a day is going to be on her face and hands, not exclusively in typical sexual assault locations.

Well, that's kind of the point, HOTYH: to our knowledge, they didn't test any of those other places. They only tested "typical sexual assault locations," because (As I keep trying to remind people, for all the good it does me:banghead they'd already made up their minds that a legitimate sexual assault had taken place.

If there's a way for me to put that any more plainly, I have yet to find it.

He may have changed his mind since we last went over this, but even Roy agrees that it's a good idea to do more testing.

 

[Tadpole12]

Is that because the DNA was found in places typical for a sexual assault?

The first place innocent DNA would show up is on JBR's hands and face, because kids always touch their face with their hands. DNA that's been on JBR for more than a day is going to be on her face and hands, not exclusively in typical sexual assault locations.

Hi Hotyh.

Yes,
Ty for that reminder.

But how can we speculate about what has or has not been tested?
or
what samples from what places were unable to be amplified?

The positive dna results were taken from clothing and under her nails.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Well, that's kind of the point, HOTYH: to our knowledge, they didn't test any of those other places. They only tested "typical sexual assault locations," because (As I keep trying to remind people, for all the good it does me:banghead they'd already made up their minds that a legitimate sexual assault had taken place.

If there's a way for me to put that any more plainly, I have yet to find it.

He may have changed his mind since we last went over this, but even Roy agrees that it's a good idea to do more testing.

This seems like a classic case of 'can't see the forest for the trees' where the forest is all the DNA on JBR and the trees are only the unknown male DNA we've been told about so many times by the news.

What isn't 'to our knowledge'?? Thats more than just a loophole you've added to your post. Might as well be a black hole with literally thousands of pages of data in it. We're really on the outside on this one, and unless one of us is carrying a badge that says 'detective' on it, I'm not going to be gullible and fall for the idea that any of us knows more than what is printed or spoken.

Do you really, sincerely believe that JBR's hands were not tested for DNA? Thats the dirtiest place on our body, when it comes to transfering DNA, fiber, or any other material. If transfer material is anywhere, its there. I'm just a layman and thats in the first five places I'd choose for forensic testing.

JBR's hands aren't really 'any of those other places', are they. What you seem to be saying is "I don't know if they checked JBR's hands for DNA." I can assure you they did.

 

[Ravyn]

I'm still trying to learn this thing called DNA and how it used but now if JB was wiped down or cleaned up after this attacked how can we say it's not from the dirty clothes or from a male that PR or LHP came in contact with prior to JB's death...Just trying to make sense here...

 

[BBB167893]

This seems like a classic case of 'can't see the forest for the trees' where the forest is all the DNA on JBR and the trees are only the unknown male DNA we've been told about so many times by the news.

I may need to add double headbangs for this.

What isn't 'to our knowledge'?? Thats more than just a loophole you've added to your post. Might as well be a black hole with literally thousands of pages of data in it. We're really on the outside on this one, and unless one of us is carrying a badge that says 'detective' on it, I'm not going to be gullible and fall for the idea that any of us knows more than what is printed or spoken.

That's why I felt the need to put that little disclaimer in there. Although, to be perfectly honest, my gut says that we know what they know.

Do you really, sincerely believe that JBR's hands were not tested for DNA?

HOTYH, I don't know what to believe. All I know is that if you're going to do this kind of thing, it's a good idea to go all the way.

Thats the dirtiest place on our body, when it comes to transfering DNA, fiber, or any other material. If transfer material is anywhere, its there. I'm just a layman and thats in the first five places I'd choose for forensic testing.

That's easy to say, HOTYH. But who knows what kind of restrictions were in place? I'm talking budgetary ones now.

JBR's hands aren't really 'any of those other places', are they. What you seem to be saying is "I don't know if they checked JBR's hands for DNA." I can assure you they did.

Your assurance isn't very assuring, HOTYH.

 

[Roy23]

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008...y-exoneration/


Dave,

Read this two times. And understand that BPD did everything in their power to refute the original DNA. They had the help of experts, including Dr. Lee. You have to understand that LE has the knowlege and ability to get what they need. Especially when they have the FBI and the best in their field involved. They spun it as innocent DNA from a underwear factory worker. Why do you think that is? It is because they tested everybody they could. And your protagonists, the BPD, did so? That is why they say underwear factory worker. Read the article.

I have to say to you when you say we know as much as them, the investigators, is quite arrogant. You have to know that Dave. We don't and NEVER have. In 2006, their theory was flushed down the toilet. The response from them is they should still do more testing. Bank on it, they have. Does that mean the Ramsey's should be cleared? It is debatable, listen to your brother and combine my logic, your logic, and his logic. And keep reading on the DNA and try and contact a Barry Scheck or Henry Lee.

I can't tell you what or what not the Ramsey's know. I can tell you for fact that the DNA is a turd in the punch bowl as of 2006. And there is more too that none of us know. Your hatred for Lacy is standing in the way on this. Within two years, they will release more info on the DNA and your theory better change with it, take it to the bank.

 

[BBB167893]

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008...y-exoneration/


Dave,

Read this two times.

Once was enough for me.

And understand that BPD did everything in their power to refute the original DNA. They had the help of experts, including Dr. Lee. You have to understand that LE has the knowlege and ability to get what they need. Especially when they have the FBI and the best in their field involved. They spun it as innocent DNA from a underwear factory worker. Why do you think that is? It is because they tested everybody they could. And your protagonists, the BPD, did so? That is why they say underwear factory worker. Read the article.

Thank you.

I have to say to you when you say we know as much as them, the investigators, is quite arrogant. You have to know that Dave. We don't and NEVER have.

I said my gut tells me so, not that I know for sure.

In 2006, their theory was flushed down the toilet.

I'm sure that was the intention.

The response from them is they should still do more testing. Bank on it, they have. Does that mean the Ramsey's should be cleared? It is debatable, listen to your brother and combine my logic, your logic, and his logic. And keep reading on the DNA and try and contact a Barry Scheck or Henry Lee.

Very well.

I can't tell you what or what not the Ramsey's know. I can tell you for fact that the DNA is a turd in the punch bowl as of 2006. And there is more too that none of us know.

You may be right at that.

Your hatred for Lacy is standing in the way on this. Within two years, they will release more info on the DNA and your theory better change with it, take it to the bank.

I'll believe it when I see it. You can't ask fairer than that.

 

[Roy23]

Once was enough for me.



Thank you.



I said my gut tells me so, not that I know for sure.



I'm sure that was the intention.



Very well.



You may be right at that.



I'll believe it when I see it. You can't ask fairer than that.

We are behind internet walls but I have tons of respect for you. Anyone who throws all their effort into whatever their agenda is, I believe they can accomplish anything. I hope to teach my son the same hard working attitude. I want you to know that. To write a book on this case and expect to succeed without being an insider, God Bless you. I know you aren't doing it for money, but to accomplish your goal that is a by product of it and I would love to see you get it. Heck, I mean just get it published.

We could argue all day and get our panties in a wad. But this very issue we discuss will definitely be the single issue in your quest. You and I don't have the luxury of all the facts. And I am not a real student of all that has happened but I know a decent amount. I do know some about LE and DNA. What doesn't help my case is that I believe Boulder LE did a bad job but at least did due diligence on the DNA. In a case of this magnitude, with FBI and forensic science experts, they had to. Had they found the source of this DNA innocent, the Ramsey's go on trial. And the same holds true if they found it anytime between 1997 and 2006.

I just want you to consider this. Try and consult a forensic expert to deny or confirm what I am saying. They have to answer cautiously but they know LE tactics, especially in a high profile case. I think they would absolutely tell you that a factory worker at a underwear plant is out and LE probably tested everyone she was in contact with on Christmas day. From there, you can make conclusions on your own. To kill someone by abuse, a lot of reactions occur from the killer to the victim. And the victim to the killer.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

We are behind internet walls but I have tons of respect for you. Anyone who throws all their effort into whatever their agenda is, I believe they can accomplish anything. I hope to teach my son the same hard working attitude. I want you to know that. To write a book on this case and expect to succeed without being an insider, God Bless you. I know you aren't doing it for money, but to accomplish your goal that is a by product of it and I would love to see you get it. Heck, I mean just get it published.

We could argue all day and get our panties in a wad. But this very issue we discuss will definitely be the single issue in your quest. You and I don't have the luxury of all the facts. And I am not a real student of all that has happened but I know a decent amount. I do know some about LE and DNA. What doesn't help my case is that I believe Boulder LE did a bad job but at least did due diligence on the DNA. In a case of this magnitude, with FBI and forensic science experts, they had to. Had they found the source of this DNA innocent, the Ramsey's go on trial. And the same holds true if they found it anytime between 1997 and 2006.

I just want you to consider this. Try and consult a forensic expert to deny or confirm what I am saying. They have to answer cautiously but they know LE tactics, especially in a high profile case. I think they would absolutely tell you that a factory worker at a underwear plant is out and LE probably tested everyone she was in contact with on Christmas day. From there, you can make conclusions on your own. To kill someone by abuse, a lot of reactions occur from the killer to the victim. And the victim to the killer.

JR and PR showed no signs of having been in a violent altercation, while JBR obviously did. There were no injuries to JR or PR. There was no smoking gun evidence found on the clothing JR or PR were wearing at that time. I think it can be safely assumed JR and PR's clothing were checked thouroughly for any signs of the altercation.