Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[HMSHood]

absolutely - just see the 2 Jodis !

Jodi before trial and during trial shows she has aged considerably and looks different.

 

[SwampMama]

Jodi before trial and during trial shows she has aged considerably and looks different.

It's amazing how far she has deteriorated. Her youth is gone, that's for sure. I think part of her look nowadays is staged for court but the hard truth is that she looks older, more bitter, desperate even.

The reality is setting in for her that she isn't going to win this battle and that she only has a life in prison to look forward to, not 1000 places to visit before she dies.

 

[Charterhouse]

She isn't going to see a thousand places.

I think she is working for a 1000 days of trial.

 

[crimesnooper]

To that end, here's another armchair observation.

I have had the great misfortune to know a borderline sociopath who was raised by an actual bonafide psychopath. (It's true they are actually out there).

Once I accepted what I was dealing with and sat back and observed their collective behavior, the one thing that I noticed is that these individuals spend enormous amounts of time and energy keeping up appearances.

When out in public nearly every single interaction I witnessed was spent displaying posturing behaviors of charisma, hospitality and slick actions. It was as if the individual was always aware that they were 'selling' an image.

They are KEENLY aware of the slightest suggestion within a conversation and seem to watch for any opening with which they can slide in a word or two in almost a subliminal message to convey that THEY are 'normal' and whomever they are assassinating at the moment is bad.

I'm sure there are people on here with intimate relations in this type of personality disorder and they know exactly what I'm talking about.

They are the master manipulators.

I think that is why I always feel a little distrust for people who are always perfectly put together all the time!!

 

[crimesnooper]

If he felt threatened by being outted by JA, he could have wiped his computer clean. I wonder how deep the forensics went when checking his technology. Remember JA claims he had a deeper darker leaning. She claims everything changed after she witnessed/discovered that. On the outside chance she's telling the truth, he may have removed everything and anything relative to that subject from his personal records. I believe she said she witnessed that in December 2007. Can that be right? I wonder if he still owned the same computer, if any deletions were made, etc. These are the things the defense should have dug into if they knew she was going to made these kinds of claims during the trial.
How can her claims not be supported by any forensics? I remember she slipped in some comment about T's nephew or something. Of course, they'd never put him or his mother on the stand - but for her to even say that - wow!

p.s. Are you certain about the ejaculation thing? If that's true, I learned something new today.

That's what I have been thinking. Did the police really check his computer? If he had deleted items, did they go that extra step to recreate the deletions. No one has addressed that. But why would they? They had everyone telling the police that JA had something to do with it, they had a gruesome crime scene.I doubt they did that. Also we are asked to beleive he was so sexually pure that he never masturbated, let alone had sex. If JA awakened all this desre is it possible that he was on the verge of exploring sexuallty and that included an awakening for sexual feelings for boys/girls? And is it possible that in that awakening, he has just one photo and not a cache? The talking heads, Nancy Grace, Dr. Drew in particular, keep saying you would have found ooodles of photos. But what if this was just the beginning and he had not graduated to the next level?

 

[crimesnooper]

tv heads discussing if Jodi really has headache. She mentions headaches in the phone tapes. Nancy grace has never had a migraine headache. I suffer with them and I become unable to do anything but vomit. I take tablets when it starts to try to control them but they don't always work.can be caused by lack of eating. Sometimes Nancy grace gives me a headache. Wonder if she has had a cat scan to rule out tumor.

Loved your post. I too have had migranes and they are debilitating. You can't concentrate, the sound of a voice, motion, light and movement..is unbearable. I have been through five major surgeries, two for cancer, and I functioned during those...but not during a migraine. And contray to Dr. Drew's comment, there has been no proven connection between migraines and emotions.

 

[aussiegirl]

I just wanted to say, not all diagnosed sociopaths are psychotic crazy killers. And not all crazy killers are psychopaths/sociopaths. Some are just real nasty people or people who get caught up in a rageful moment and kill someone.

I met a man at work several years ago. He did the IT when I was working in education policy and procedure (instead of teaching). He's an odd man. Unusual.

3 years down the track, I am great friends with his wife and him. BUT I happen to know that this man has been diagnosed with ASPD (Antisocial Personality Disorder), sociopath, Bi polar and possibly some other things over the years. He has been an involuntary inpatient in a mental health facility more than once in his teenage years. He was expelled from lots of schools. He has a juvenile history of blowing stuff up. He is quick to violence with people outside his circle and can justify to himself why it was ok, and actually finds it amusing.

This man is 30, and whilst an unusual man, with a VERY bad history and a terribly abusive childhood, he holds down a well paying professional job in senior management. He has been married 10 years (his wife is a few years older and a saint of a owman). He is a dad to a delightful 6 year old girl.

And according to the diagnostic criteria, he is a sociopath. But he loves "his people". I am one of "his people" (thank God). But other people, he really doesn't give a toss about. He is also incredibly intelligent. But he's not a criminal (as an adult), or a murderer. Although I have no doubt he could kill someone if he decided to. He partakes in risky behaviours. But he's not a bad guy.

I don't think JA is a psychopath or sociopath. I think she is more likely bipolar with extreme emotional surges. I do think her killing of TA was premeditated - but I also think it was a crime of passion. She was so angry at how he treated her that she was going to kill him.

But I DON'T think that makes her a psychopath/sociopath. I think she's nuts...there is defiantly something not quite right about her, but I tend to think it's more based on having HUGE uncontrollable emotions than having ASPD....it just doesn't add up to me.

Of course I am more than happy to be wrong. My experience of a man with ASPD is one of a man who is VERY much about himself, but not a bad person, at least, not to me. A good provider and who loves his family and friends.

This of course probably clouds my judgement.

But I just don't think JA a sociopath/psychopath because she killed someone in a fit of rage.

I think she's guilty as hell, and crazy as a cut snake. But I just don't think there is enough evidence, anecdotal, presented in court, in the videos.... to prove she has ASPD.

And as for sticking to her crazy story that doesn't make sense - to get off a death sentence murder charge, and this was your story and you had to stick to it...wouldn't you? I mean, would you really just roll over and decide to die? I think her defence has just been appalling towards TA and so painful to his family BUT (I can't imagine killing someone, I dont even feel comfortable with the death sentence for people like JA)....but if I was in her position and all I had between me and possible death was a crazy story, I think I'd stick to it and hope to hell someone believed me. I don't think her sticking to the story shows she's crazy, just uncreative.

 

[SMK]

In terms of the pics of Jodi, I don't think its so much that she has deteriorated as that we are now seeing what she really looks like. Without the makeup and blonde hair she presents as a different type.

In a sense she presented a false persona which Travis fell for.

Her Latino heritage is apparent now and there is nothing bad in that, but perhaps she thought so and sought to downplay it with the blonde hair.

On the other hand millions of women dye their hair blonde or get blue contacts , etc. so maybe she felt that is how she wanted to present herself....

 

[SMK]

I just wanted to say, not all diagnosed sociopaths are psychotic crazy killers. And not all crazy killers are psychopaths/sociopaths. Some are just real nasty people or people who get caught up in a rageful moment and kill someone.

I met a man at work several years ago. He did the IT when I was working in education policy and procedure (instead of teaching). He's an odd man. Unusual.

3 years down the track, I am great friends with his wife and him. BUT I happen to know that this man has been diagnosed with ASPD (Antisocial Personality Disorder), sociopath, Bi polar and possibly some other things over the years. He has been an involuntary inpatient in a mental health facility more than once in his teenage years. He was expelled from lots of schools. He has a juvenile history of blowing stuff up. He is quick to violence with people outside his circle and can justify to himself why it was ok, and actually finds it amusing.

This man is 30, and whilst an unusual man, with a VERY bad history and a terribly abusive childhood, he holds down a well paying professional job in senior management. He has been married 10 years (his wife is a few years older and a saint of a owman). He is a dad to a delightful 6 year old girl.

And according to the diagnostic criteria, he is a sociopath. But he loves "his people". I am one of "his people" (thank God). But other people, he really doesn't give a toss about. He is also incredibly intelligent. But he's not a criminal (as an adult), or a murderer. Although I have no doubt he could kill someone if he decided to. He partakes in risky behaviours. But he's not a bad guy.

I don't think JA is a psychopath or sociopath. I think she is more likely bipolar with extreme emotional surges. I do think her killing of TA was premeditated - but I also think it was a crime of passion. She was so angry at how he treated her that she was going to kill him.

But I DON'T think that makes her a psychopath/sociopath. I think she's nuts...there is defiantly something not quite right about her, but I tend to think it's more based on having HUGE uncontrollable emotions than having ASPD....it just doesn't add up to me.

Of course I am more than happy to be wrong. My experience of a man with ASPD is one of a man who is VERY much about himself, but not a bad person, at least, not to me. A good provider and who loves his family and friends.

This of course probably clouds my judgement.

But I just don't think JA a sociopath/psychopath because she killed someone in a fit of rage.

I think she's guilty as hell, and crazy as a cut snake. But I just don't think there is enough evidence, anecdotal, presented in court, in the videos.... to prove she has ASPD.

And as for sticking to her crazy story that doesn't make sense - to get off a death sentence murder charge, and this was your story and you had to stick to it...wouldn't you? I mean, would you really just roll over and decide to die? I think her defence has just been appalling towards TA and so painful to his family BUT (I can't imagine killing someone, I dont even feel comfortable with the death sentence for people like JA)....but if I was in her position and all I had between me and possible death was a crazy story, I think I'd stick to it and hope to hell someone believed me. I don't think her sticking to the story shows she's crazy, just uncreative.

Yes, in the end all that matters is , is she guilty of premeditated murder rather than self-defense?

 

[aussiegirl]

I think there has been enough evidence submitted to show that she is guilty of premeditated murder.

But boy oh boy would I love to be a fly on the wall of any ongoing therapy sessions and assessments she (hypothetically) could have. Wouldn't it be interesting to talk to a really TOP specialist who had sessions with JA over a long period of time? And see what they thought.

 

[TexMex]

I think there has been enough evidence submitted to show that she is guilty of premeditated murder.

But boy oh boy would I love to be a fly on the wall of any ongoing therapy sessions and assessments she (hypothetically) could have. Wouldn't it be interesting to talk to a really TOP specialist who had sessions with JA over a long period of time? And see what they thought.

Absolutely. I heard one talking head say there is certainly a reason the defense team has not had her examined by a top psychiatrist. Would be hard to defend a client with "our client, the psychopath, drove 1,000 miles with a stolen weapon and killed her ex lover who was moving on in self defense" :banghead:

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

But we do not know what he was talking about. He said she scammed him and hurt him. This can mean any number of things. We don't know if he was chastising her for things he participated in. Maybe she stole from him. Maybe she threatened to black mail him. He also alludes to a person who knew things about his life that Jodi lied about. I think it stands to reason Travis was provoked at least as much as Jodi (thinks she) was.

IIRC, didn't Travis sell a car to Jodi? I don't know what the terms of the sale were, but maybe she stopped making payments to him; or gave him a bad check or something of that nature. That could the the scam he was referring to.

 

[SMK]

But we do not know what he was talking about. He said she scammed him and hurt him. This can mean any number of things. We don't know if he was chastising her for things he participated in. Maybe she stole from him. Maybe she threatened to black mail him. He also alludes to a person who knew things about his life that Jodi lied about. I think it stands to reason Travis was provoked at least as much as Jodi (thinks she) was.

Yes. And I've also always thought that Travis was truly shocked when Jodi did the tire slashing, the emails, the gossip: He wasn't expecting her to act like this, and believed she was content to be a friend who had a kind of background sexual adventure thing going with him. She misrepresented herself to him and wasn't honest about her intentions to marry him.

Thus, Travis was in the dark as to what was motivating her: He wasn't a mind reader and like most males took her at her word.

 

[pip]

In terms of her plotting his murder so carefully as to renting a car, dying her hair, setting up RB as a love interest visit alibi, the license plates, the Ninja in the night style visit to Arizona, no bank trail in Arizona, the gas cans, the stolen gun... etc. Do you really believe she had intentions of leaving his murdered body to be found in his house or do you think she had every intention to take his body with her and dispose of it?
My theory is that she attempted a clean kill in the shower and had pulled her car into the garage where she would wrap him in something she brought and to drag his body down and put him into the trunk. 3 cans of gas was multipurpose for a trip out to the desert after the killing. I think she is more than smart enough to have known that if they found him dead, she would be the immediate and only suspect with everyone pointing fingers at her. (EXACTLY what did happen) But if Travis is just simply never seen again, no body no crime, and she has an alibi and was never seen or tracked in any way thru Arizona they would have a hard time pinning it on her. He could have just taken off and is still alive.
The clean kill in the shower went wrong when he was able to get out. The subsequent stabbings created alot of blood that she could not clean, despite her attempts. I always thought it was so weird that she drug him back to the bathroom and put him in the shower. While yes, her DNA on him would be an issue, I also wonder if she was trying to stick to her first plan. Wash him off to eliminate blood transfer, wrap him and take his body. She had to abort the plan due to the impossible clean up. Why in the heck would she even attempt to clean up the evidence as she did? I think because she was desperately trying to stick to her first plan (no body, no evidence, no crime) and she came to realize it would be futile and quit the clean up effort.
I just really feel her original plan was to take him and leave no evidence of a killing. It makes more sense to me, in terms of how her plotting mind would work.

 

[zebraland]

(Dance like no one is watching...post like no one is reading it...)

When she says "And this just shows how vain I am.." I'll tell you what all I could think of was this chick missed her calling. She should have either been a televangelist or a salesperson.

I'm thinking pole dancer. ; )

 

[Chester_from_THM]

That's what I have been thinking. Did the police really check his computer? If he had deleted items, did they go that extra step to recreate the deletions. No one has addressed that. But why would they? They had everyone telling the police that JA had something to do with it, they had a gruesome crime scene.I doubt they did that. Also we are asked to beleive he was so sexually pure that he never masturbated, let alone had sex. If JA awakened all this desre is it possible that he was on the verge of exploring sexuallty and that included an awakening for sexual feelings for boys/girls? And is it possible that in that awakening, he has just one photo and not a cache? The talking heads, Nancy Grace, Dr. Drew in particular, keep saying you would have found ooodles of photos. But what if this was just the beginning and he had not graduated to the next level?

I seem to recall from early on in the trial, the State's computer forensic guy said there were no pictures, no *advertiser censored* at all on TAs computer.

And the Defense had a computer guy who found the "Stronger, Faster, Louder. . whatever" video link in the browser cache, that TA was watching on the morning of 4 Jun, and Juan made it clear this was not *advertiser censored* at all, it was a music/dancing video. Granted, it was girls in underwear with words painted on various body parts, but nothing showing anything even remotely lewd.

So I think the State did a good job of shooting down and pedo/*advertiser censored* evidence from his computer.

In fact, HER computer was the only one with anything *advertiser censored*-related with the d*ck pics. She said they were from TA, but that hand sure looked like Darryl's to me!

I also recall something about supposedly TA sent her a d*ck pic to her phone, but I don't know if she was claiming that was the one that ended up on her hard drive, or if there was any other evidence to back that claim up.

 

[shelley921]

In terms of her plotting his murder so carefully as to renting a car, dying her hair, setting up RB as a love interest visit alibi, the license plates, the Ninja in the night style visit to Arizona, no bank trail in Arizona, the gas cans, the stolen gun... etc. Do you really believe she had intentions of leaving his murdered body to be found in his house or do you think she had every intention to take his body with her and dispose of it?
My theory is that she attempted a clean kill in the shower and had pulled her car into the garage where she would wrap him in something she brought and to drag his body down and put him into the trunk. 3 cans of gas was multipurpose for a trip out to the desert after the killing. I think she is more than smart enough to have known that if they found him dead, she would be the immediate and only suspect with everyone pointing fingers at her. (EXACTLY what did happen) But if Travis is just simply never seen again, no body no crime, and she has an alibi and was never seen or tracked in any way thru Arizona they would have a hard time pinning it on her. He could have just taken off and is still alive.
The clean kill in the shower went wrong when he was able to get out. The subsequent stabbings created alot of blood that she could not clean, despite her attempts. I always thought it was so weird that she drug him back to the bathroom and put him in the shower. While yes, her DNA on him would be an issue, I also wonder if she was trying to stick to her first plan. Wash him off to eliminate blood transfer, wrap him and take his body. She had to abort the plan due to the impossible clean up. Why in the heck would she even attempt to clean up the evidence as she did? I think because she was desperately trying to stick to her first plan (no body, no evidence, no crime) and she came to realize it would be futile and quit the clean up effort.
I just really feel her original plan was to take him and leave no evidence of a killing. It makes more sense to me, in terms of how her plotting mind would work.

seems to me it would be very hard for a woman jodi's size to get a 200 pound man's dead body into a car trunk.

 

[pip]

seems to me it would be very hard for a woman jodi's size to get a 200 pound man's dead body into a car trunk.

She got him into the tiny shower, why not a trunk? I think a determined Jodi would have no problem.

 

[SMK]

In terms of her plotting his murder so carefully as to renting a car, dying her hair, setting up RB as a love interest visit alibi, the license plates, the Ninja in the night style visit to Arizona, no bank trail in Arizona, the gas cans, the stolen gun... etc. Do you really believe she had intentions of leaving his murdered body to be found in his house or do you think she had every intention to take his body with her and dispose of it?
My theory is that she attempted a clean kill in the shower and had pulled her car into the garage where she would wrap him in something she brought and to drag his body down and put him into the trunk. 3 cans of gas was multipurpose for a trip out to the desert after the killing. I think she is more than smart enough to have known that if they found him dead, she would be the immediate and only suspect with everyone pointing fingers at her. (EXACTLY what did happen) But if Travis is just simply never seen again, no body no crime, and she has an alibi and was never seen or tracked in any way thru Arizona they would have a hard time pinning it on her. He could have just taken off and is still alive.
The clean kill in the shower went wrong when he was able to get out. The subsequent stabbings created alot of blood that she could not clean, despite her attempts. I always thought it was so weird that she drug him back to the bathroom and put him in the shower. While yes, her DNA on him would be an issue, I also wonder if she was trying to stick to her first plan. Wash him off to eliminate blood transfer, wrap him and take his body. She had to abort the plan due to the impossible clean up. Why in the heck would she even attempt to clean up the evidence as she did? I think because she was desperately trying to stick to her first plan (no body, no evidence, no crime) and she came to realize it would be futile and quit the clean up effort.
I just really feel her original plan was to take him and leave no evidence of a killing. It makes more sense to me, in terms of how her plotting mind would work.

Yes, you make an excellent point because without a body, it is far more difficult to make a case against anyone for murder.

Travis would have simply "gone missing" and she likely would have added to the gossip mill that "he had been worried about some trouble and probably fled the country". She might have even said as some murderers do when no body is found, "I heard from him."

The only other thing I had thought is that she may have originally planned for a clean shoot and kill, and planned to make it look like a simple home invasion or robbery and left his body there. But your theory makes a great deal of sense, too.

 

[pip]

Yes, you make an excellent point because without a body, it is far more difficult to make a case against anyone for murder.

Travis would have simply "gone missing" and she likely would have added to the gossip mill that "he had been worried about some trouble and probably fled the country". She might have even said as some murderers do when no body is found, "I heard from him."

The only other thing I had thought is that she may have originally planned for a clean shoot and kill, and planned to make it look like a simple home invasion or robbery and left his body there. But your theory makes a great deal of sense, too.

Nothing was stolen though. She sure didn't do anything to make it a home invasion/robbery type of scene to cover her tracks. If that was her original intention, I think she would have still tried to set up that scene, despite the bloody massacre. I think her plan went horribly wrong and she knew she would have to live with it and left. She tried a clean up but soon gave up.