Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias
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Tiger09
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A couple of books I've read on the case make me flip flop. I'm like eh innocent then no guilty. I'm honestly confused, but Raffeale is innocent. I'm leaning towards innocent, but there are so many books and I haven't read all of them. I do believe she was treated unfairly and I do see that JA copied her behavior on the interrogation room- head stands and oddities to claim stress. Hell, the intruders sounds like Kircher's murder. And both were sexually charged crimes. With money stolen, I think or involved. She would have heard of the case because Knox is from Seattle where Jodi supposedly traveled - she resided in North Cali. The murder happened in 2007 which was one year before Travis was killed. She was stabbed in the throat. With all the controversy of Americans protesting the charges and abuse by the Italian police, I'm sure that got the wheels turning. She probably didn't count on it being filmed, which is why I think the judge didn't allow it yet. It's a waste of time and possible bs. She's doing anything to not take responsibility.
I get the same way. There are websites where they believe in her total innocence, and when I read there, I am convinced she is innocent.
Then I read the Knox-is-Guilty sites, and after reading all their posts, I begin to waver.
MeeBee: Unfortunately Italy has a system where not only can the defendant appeal, but the prosecutor can appeal that appeal!:notgood::notgood:
ETA: Interesting, yes, the Knox crime would have been very much in the headlines when Arias was moving toward murder: Knox was arressted November 2007 so 6 months before TA was killed!
Meebee: tried to respond to your exact quote of always fearing ASPD. ASPD is a disorder that should not always to be shunned. Some are capable of close relationships with small groups of family and friends. Though their emotional traits are not wired like others does not make them unworthy of compassion. There are those extremely dangerous and should be removed from society. However, there are many people we encounter that lie, steal, rape, murder, manipulate and control that don't have a personality disorder. If people automatically fear and shun those with ASPD. Would those asking for treatment while living with a personality disorders stop for fear of society labeling them. Lumping people into groups because of a disability or illness is unethical. Everyone deserves a chance to participate in society unless their acts find them devoid of rehabilitation. Giving my compassion to others is how I would hope to be treated if I was on the other side.
Tiger09
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I also was like wtf when Guede got 16 yrs when he was all over that crime scene and fled to Germany. Dude also had a knife. The prosecutor was being investigated for another crime during the trial. I also think the wm3 are innocent and that one of the stepdad's did it- not the crazy stereotype from the first documentary but the other one. Prejudice is a dangerous weapon so I'm glad this judge is being thorough. Give Jodi a bologna sandwich or a coke and a smile as long as Travis Alexander gets justice. Those poor kids in wm still don't have justice and may never, at least Meredith Kirscher's killer is behind bars- though the victory is tainted. No more tainted convictions. Get the right killer and stop letting the paps play judge and jury. Let the evidence speak because forensics doesn't lie. Hell, watch some Dexter lol.
I think you should learn a little more about ASPD. You don't know what they are like. Your compassion is completely misplaced. I am a deeply compassionate person, but not for sociopaths. They are the evil that lives among us. I am completely against lumping people together. But sociopaths are a completely different animal. Their brains are not wired correctly. There's no curing them. There's no understanding them. Your way of thinking is what turns people into tools and victims of sociopaths. It's what got Travis Alexander killed. Learn what they are so it never happens to you. They are devoid of the ability to feel compassion. That is the very definition of ASPD. That's what it is. There are varying degrees, but the way psychologists define whether the person in front of them is a sociopath is whether or not they have the capability to feel empathy/compassion. If they don't, they are a sociopath. ASPD is another word for sociopath. They don't WANT treatment. They don't WANT help. They like the way they are. I explained this.
shelley921
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i had a frightening experience last month.
a neighbor/friend was sick with a bladder infection and a cold.
she is my age--we are both over 50. i am tall and thin
and physically fit. she is not and she must weight 200 pounds.
so i went over to her home to help her. i brought her some soup.she had the soup and said she was cold.
why not take a hot bath i asked. she wanted to do that so i ran the tub for her and after she got in i kept checking on
her asking if she was ready to get out. i wanted to be able to help
her as she was weak. she kept saying no she wasn't warm enough yet.
after 25 min i insisted she get out. she just stayed in the tub - she wasn't trying to get out and she began talking nonsense. she was delusional.
she kept saying " i can't play the piano part" and i have to tell jerry i can't
play the part".
i kept saying it's ok you can play the piano part later. but i was really frightened.
i thought maybe she had had a stroke. i said come on let's get out of the tub but it was not good--she could not get out of the tub even with me trying to help her. i could not lift her up by myself ! i tried!
and i know i am an older person but i am strong for my age. i was afraid to let go of her to go get the phone and call 911.
christ -what to do- ? i let the water drain out. then with one hand i grabbed a big towel nearby and i wrapped this big towel
around her and told her to hold on to the grab bar in the tub. i got the phone--called my sis-in-law who
lives around the corner and luckily she was home and came right over and between the 2 of us we got my friend out of the tub,
dried off and into bed. she fell asleep and we let her sleep for about a half hour then woke her up. fortunately she was making sense again. extreme exhaustion combined with illness and too long a time in a hot bath can affect people over age 50 in adverse ways!
so this is how i know that is is hard to get a person weighing 200 pounds UP and move them somewhere else. i am 5'8" and I weigh 118 pounds.
OMG, what a horrible experience, am so glad it worked out alright. Wow :what:
I guess with Jodi her adrenaline kicked in - imagine if a roommate or neighbor had come in and discovered her in flagrante delicto !!!
I grew up with one so that is my education and yes I can give compassion to those that may not understand or reciprocate compassion. My understanding is that not every ASPD is a psychopath/ sociopath but every psychopath/sociopath has ASPD. But then I am not as enlightened with knowledge as you .
I DO agree that there are people like this: I have one in my family and another was a man I got involved with. All you say here is true: They are cold as ice to the core.
I do however harbor a real FEAR of labeling because I am afraid someone will get labeled with ASPD who does not really have it (a therapist tried to say that my son, who has Aspberger Syndrome, "does not have emotions". He has always, always been kind, empathetic, caring, giving: Moreso than many so-called "neuro typicals" in my family.
But because she had been schooled to believe that neuro-atypicals have no emotions - she applied it ruthlessly to him, and in flagrant contradiction to the facts.
It harmed him immeasurably to have her as a therapist. Just trying to explain my fear of labels.)
lil_buddy
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Well, I would never label someone I didn't know a lot about. I am labeling Jodi because she shows text book signs of a sociopath. Now, not having emotions is not the only sign of sociopathy. So when I say that, I am not saying anyone who doesn't show emotions is a sociopath. Quite the contrary, sociopaths do show emotions, inappropriately, they just don't really have them. I would never ever look at someone with Autism or Aspergers and think sociopath. It just does not even match.
There was a boy in our neighborhood in Montreal. I could tell he had Autism. But when I told my MIL and husband they just laughed at me and told me I was imagining things. He was just too smart and bright and intelligent. I took the opportunity to try to educate them on Autism and explained that having Autism does not mean you are dumb or mentally retarded. Autistic people are often very intelligent and sweet. This boy is so much fun to talk to. Loe and behold, he does have Autism. I feel I often have a very good read on people (not to toot my own horn lol). My MIL still insists he was misdiagnosed and told him this. He didn't like that. He knows he is different and it offended him because he wears his diagnosis as a badge and feels people should accept him the way he is not the way they think he should be. He was very bright.
My dad's new wife is a sociopath. I hate her. They are life ruiners. That's why I began my many many hours of reading about them. I am not saying to not have compassion. Our ability to feel compassion can not just be turned off. That is why they prey on that ability. Sometimes I feel sorry for them that they will never feel love or empathy. Then I remind myself they don't care about my compassion for them and probably find it stupid and disgusting. They would just as sooner kill me as look at me. They feel superior in their lack of compassion. So I don't care anymore. Society at large should be warned about people like this.
ETA: I also feel I have myself in the past been accused of misplaced compassion. I knew a man once whose wife he was becoming upset and frustrated with. She was laying in bed all day, not cleaning, not taking care of the children properly. He made her sound like a lazy bum. But I felt pity for her. She sounded depressed to me. Very depressed. And probably never got help for it. I told him she sounds like maybe she could be depressed. He told me his wife's mother had died a couple years before and she was having trouble getting over it. It never computed for him. Even after I told him that. He was too busy focusing on her shortcomings to care or try to help her. They are divorced now. So please don't mistake my words for callousness.
I have spent so many hours reading and reading about this stuff it fascinated me and it helps me understand myself too. I have spent so much time in my life trying to understand other people and how and who they are. That's why I feel nothing for Jodi and people like her. They are almost inhuman. You have to use your ability to discern to know who is deserving of your compassion and deserving of you. That's all. I hope you weren't offended by my words. I just wish people could know early on to know what they were dealing with so they don't end up like Travis or any of the other millions of people who have been taken advantage by them. This would have been so avoidable if he knew what Jodi was.
Yes. You are the kind of person with astute powers of insight and I believe likely would not easily slap a label on someone unless you saw a whole constellation of traits. ( If Jodi is anything like a certain family member of mine, then yes, I would grant that she is probably pure cunning with a human mask : A pretense behind which a shrewd ego hides. )
Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad clinicians and diagnosticians out there, and they spoil it for everyone. None of my mistrust of labels is aimed at you; rest assured.
Sorry to hear about your dad's wife. Hopefully he will see as you do and run.
I am Canadian too so :truce:
I am sorry too that you had to grow up with one. It must have been hard I know that you probably still love that person no matter what.
I don't mean to sound pushy. I'm just so passionate about this because I feel if more people knew about people like Jodi, they could better guard themselves against them and being taken advantage of killed by them. Travis should never have been killed. People do have to learn and understand that there really are people out there that do not have a human soul. Travis wanted to see the good in everyone. By the time he realized what she it was too late. It shouldn't happen to anyone. That's why I think sociopaths are people to be feared. Locking them away is the only way to protect society.
We could have a thread on how to cope with a psychopath in your life. I've never really come across information on how to deal with run except to run and this is not always an option.
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