Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[Karmady]

Hey guys - do you know the name of the state's expert on psychology or whoever they plan to call in that regard? I think I remember reading about her at one point. She interviewed JA, right?

Janine DeMarte. Not sure of the spelling of her first name.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/2...t-witness-in-arias-trial-has-home-burglarized

Dr. Janeen Demarte's laptop containing her profile of JA was stolen from her Phoenix home six weeks ago. Video above gives a glimpse of her.

 

[wing560]

I would like to have been a fly on the wall when TA and JA first met. What vibe did Jodi give off that would make Travis believe that she would agree to oral sex after knowing him for a few days only? If Jodi had kissed him and then thrown him the he!! out of her bedroom, maybe they would have started down a different path. As soon as she allowed sex of any kind in the Hughes house, I think she lost any chance with Travis of a serious relationship.

About ta's relationship with Lisa, maybe she thought he was a bit old for her? Twelve year different seems like a lot for an eighteen year old girl. JMO

 

[SMK]

I would like to have been a fly on the wall when TA and JA first met. What vibe did Jodi give off that would make Travis believe that she would agree to oral sex after knowing him for a few days only? If Jodi had kissed him and then thrown him the he!! out of her bedroom, maybe they would have started down a different path. As soon as she allowed sex of any kind in the Hughes house, I think she lost any chance with Travis of a serious relationship.

About ta's relationship with Lisa, maybe she thought he was a bit old for her? Twelve year different seems like a lot for an eighteen year old girl.JMO

Yes, Lisa was perhaps too young for TA.

As far as Jodi, yes, that would have been a smart move.

But to her thinking, she probably thought that since she would be the ONLY Mormon (or soon to become Mormon) girl who would be willing to do all of that upfront (she wanted to "prove" herself, no doubt, showcase her "talents", as it were). Probably thought TA would think he had struck gold, and she probably expected him to begin making plans to wed her right away.

How far off base she was , but often men do the opposite of what we think they will do (when I was young, I thought since I had good looks, I could really seal the deal with a scholarly guy by proving how smart I was. Like Jodi, I was way off base. The intellectual stuff turned him off and he went after a girl who had no scholarly interests at all. He reserved all that for his male friends. :furious: )

 

[slanda]

Just want to say thank you to everyone posting here. I had just about given up following this case onWeb Sleuth becuase so many of the other threads had become snarky. If you don't think Juan M can do no wrong..there is no mercyLOL. Everyone here has been so respectful of each other. Bravo!

Thanks :blushing: To err is Human... I personally have had to equivocate a few times but rational minds have prevailed, hopefully. I see no reason why there cannot be somewhat of an objective discussion. That's how we all learn. If everyone comes in screaming and are for the same thing, that's not learning, it's not productive, IMO.

IMO, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and we can sort it out like rational adults. I don't see why it has to be so difficult. :banghead:

Hope to hear your opinion too

 

[slanda]

And I do suggest to anyone, to watch her interrogation tapes, from 07/15-07/16. Long but very telling.

Yes. A lot is frustrating. But purely from a psychological standpoint it is interesting and informative, especially knowing what we know now. It's an interesting study.

 

[all4justice]

Clearly people are passionate in the emotion connected to this case. Discussion of anything against Travis sparks temper. However, to jump into a forum and not take the time to understand the nature of some of the posts is frustrating to me.

I think what we're dealing with is emotion on both sides. Since we're all human, we can't help but have opinions that flow from our own experiences and backgrounds. Speaking for myself, I have been victimized by someone who is at the least, a malignant narcissist, and at worst, a psychopath, so I identify with Travis. Others here may identify with jodi because of their own experiences with cheating and/or emotional abuse, as jodi has alleged, or simply want to understand how this could have happened to prevent it from happening to them in the future.

It pains me deeply that Travis' character is being scrutinized for what appears to be an effort to find some reason to justify jodi's actions. Of course Travis wasn't perfect. None of us is perfect. But he didn't deserve to be stabbed 29 times as he was naked in the shower, shot in the head and throat slit from ear to ear.

When I read the comments about Travis' imperfections, I can't help but imagine how people would view my own interactions with my abuser. What would be said about my decision to return to him because I was afraid that if I didn't he would kill me? Or about my decision not to file a restraining order for fear that it would only set him off and make him kill me before the cops could do anything about it?

In all fairness, I know that those who are scrutinizing Travis' actions are not doing so out of malice. I know that you care about Travis as a victim and are simply trying to understand how this tragedy could have happened. However, for me, and probably others who have had similar experiences, this case resonates to our very core. We identify strongly with Travis and can't help thinking, "that could have been me."

Please understand though...I'm not saying that one side's opinion is more valuable than the other. I'm just explaining why I , and perhaps others like me, tend to have such strong emotions about protecting Travis' memory. IMO, JMO

 

[Tiger09]

Ted Bundy was a charismatic, good looking guy who managed to get a job at a crisis line, work on political campagnes, become engaged to a woman with a young child, lure tons of young women into his car and slaughter them, and escape across the country. He even married someone on the stand and impregnated her while on death row. He went down claiming abuse and blaming *advertiser censored* and everything else. Everyone's forgotten his victims, but he lives in everyone's minds. I'd rather Travis Alexander, handsome motivational speaker to live on than Jodi Arias- stalker/murderer. The talk of abuse and sex is just a histrionic way of Jodi to throw the blame off her misdeeds and cast shade on Travis. Society deifies victims. You're perfect or evil- especially with male and female. She's taken Travis's life, man good, reputation, and broke his families hearts. So, she gets no sympathy from me. I will always believe she giggled because I believe the FB rumor of her tossing the murder weapons in the casket with Travis. Supposedly. She threw a Boquet of roses on the casket as they were throwing dirt on the casket. Hence why DT isn't looking for them.

 

[SMK]

I think what we're dealing with is emotion on both sides. Since we're all human, we can't help but have opinions that flow from our own experiences and backgrounds. Speaking for myself, I have been victimized by someone who is at the least, a malignant narcissist, and at worst, a psychopath, so I identify with Travis. Others here may identify with jodi because of their own experiences with cheating and/or emotional abuse, as jodi has alleged, or simply want to understand how this could have happened to prevent it from happening to them in the future.

It pains me deeply that Travis' character is being scrutinized for what appears to be an effort to find some reason to justify jodi's actions. Of course Travis wasn't perfect. None of us is perfect. But he didn't deserve to be stabbed 29 times as he was naked in the shower, shot in the head and throat slit from ear to ear.

When I read the comments about Travis' imperfections, I can't help but imagine how people would view my own interactions with my abuser. What would be said about my decision to return to him because I was afraid that if I didn't he would kill me? Or about my decision not to file a restraining order for fear that it would only set him off and make him kill me before the cops could do anything about it?

In all fairness, I know that those who are scrutinizing Travis' actions are not doing so out of malice. I know that you care about Travis as a victim and are simply trying to understand how this tragedy could have happened. However, for me, and probably others who have had similar experiences, this case resonates to our very core. We identify strongly with Travis and can't help thinking, "that could have been me."

Please understand though...I'm not saying that one side's opinion is more valuable than the other. I'm just explaining why I , and perhaps others like me, tend to have such strong emotions about protecting Travis' memory. IMO, JMO

Yes, of course I (and likely others) can understand that. I appreciate your post, and it is true that in cases of abuse like yours and others( and like Travis') the victim , though having flaws like any other human being, should not be the one being questioned. I have had similar in my own past, and it was infuriating ( "Didn't you know not to trust him?, Why did you allow that ? etc. , etc. Yes, it is maddening.)

Also, I agree: Maybe Travis did not file a restraining order because he figured that would only inflame JA more, or make her go after Lisa or others. Also, would a restraining order have even stopped Jodi? She snuck in any case...

 

[franquerolane]

Really? Tell us more please...

Here's my theory. She planned to shoot him in the head in the shower, and then, with the knife, cut him into pieces, putting him in plastic bags, clean the shower easily, taking him with her to wherever to burn the body. No traces, just everyone asking,"Where has Travis disappeared to?" Things went very wrong with her plan when the head shot didn't drop him and he staggered from the shower to the sink, spurting blood everywhere. The knife was used to finish him off. She is stealthy enough to stay hidden from any roommates and could carry him to the car a piece at a time and drive away noticed.

 

[SMK]

Ted Bundy was a charismatic, good looking guy who managed to get a job at a crisis line, work on political campagnes, become engaged to a woman with a young child, lure tons of young women into his car and slaughter them, and escape across the country. He even married someone on the stand and impregnated her while on death row. He went down claiming abuse and blaming *advertiser censored* and everything else. Everyone's forgotten his victims, but he lives in everyone's minds. I'd rather Travis Alexander, handsome motivational speaker to live on than Jodi Arias- stalker/murderer. The talk of abuse and sex is just a histrionic way of Jodi to throw the blame off her misdeeds and cast shade on Travis. Society deifies victims. You're perfect or evil- especially with male and female. She's taken Travis's life, man good, reputation, and broke his families hearts. So, she gets no sympathy from me. I will always believe she giggled because I believe the FB rumor of her tossing the murder weapons in the casket with Travis. Supposedly. She threw a Boquet of roses on the casket as they were throwing dirt on the casket. Hence why DT isn't looking for them.

I actually once saw a movie where someone did that (hid the evidence in the casket). :what: If true, they ought to have looked (investigators).

Actually, driving back through the desert, they could be anywhere. And she had plenty of time prior to her arrest to dispose of them.

 

[SwampMama]

To me, Jodi learned long ago that sex was her key to attracting men, she used it and gave her sexual favors freely. I know women like that and they are not the kind of women who have good relationships with other females, not that they care. Other women are just competition to them or people to use to get to the man they want.

I think Jodi would agree to play whatever role would keep a man interested. She seem way more than willing and happy to go along with sex acts that she now protests that she didn't enjoy. Just listen to how eagerly and easily she says to Travis about one such sex act " That is so debasing! I like it!!!".

So obviously she was giving him vibes that such stuff pleased her. She knows that some men like that stuff so she gets their attention by being that kind of girl. She doesn't just along with an idea, she revels in it and encourages it!! She lets him know she likes when he does that. She gives him ideas on what else he can do to her. She wanted him to keep coming back for more.

She needs to just own it and stop playing like she was abused. She asked for it, she let him know she enjoyed it and did not consider it abuse.

Then, aside from that, she freaking slaughtered him brutally, complete overkill. There is NO excuse for that, NONE. She was NOT defending herself, she was brutally attacking him relentlessly.

Oh this case gets to me and I just want her put away for life in a jail, whether she gets the death penalty or not. She is guilty by her own admission, WTF is there even to try and defend?

I am horrified at how Travis is continuing to be slaughtered by her. Bad enough she killed him, now she is going after his family, ripping their hearts out daily, acting like SHE is the victim.

No Travis wasn't perfect, who is? We do stupid things and live and learn. Not get killed for it.

She needs to remember her words "If I did this, I would ask for the death penalty" (paraphrased, not sure exactly how she said it). You did it Jodi, own it and spend the rest of your life paying for it. STOP trying to blame everyone else for your choices that you made and continue to make.

Sorry, I just need to rant every once in a while.

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

Yes she misrepresented herself to Travis - once Jodi realized she was not closing the deal with Travis she tried this strategy: "It's OK that I am not your girlfriend, Travis. But you know, we have such freaky, amazing sex! And we have great fun traveling! Let's keep on doing that, and I'll agree that you are free to date others. I'm ok with it".

Then Jodi puts all her effort into becoming sexually accessible and irresistible to Travis under the guise of being OK with just having a friends with benefits relationship.

The whole time she is doing this, she is getting more and more upset. Travis is dating "good girls" who don't have sex with him, and he prefers them-! He's taking one to Cancun! Once Travis gets married, Jodi realizes she will be OUT of his life entirely and she can not stand this. She flips out.

I pretty much agree with all you posted here. May I just add my own little tidbit that helps me understand a woman in a situation like this.

She has met the man of her dreams, who could have given her the "rock star" life she wanted. She tried so hard to be the "one" he chose. After all she did to please him, kinky sex, etc., be the perfect girlfriend for him, she finally realized she would never be his wife. This crushed her ego but she pretended all was well with her. She moved back to where she came from - a tiny town nobody ever heard of - back to her grandparents little house, without many prospects job wise or man wise. To me, that would feel like failure. Back home with my tail between my legs, 27 years old, not married, and no job. Back living with Grandma and Grandpa. A failure! But Jodi is a different kind of woman. She won't admit any of this was her fault. She turns it all around, in her mind, and blames everyone else! It was Travis fault! His friends rejected me! She gets so angry and resentful and broods about it obsessively. She has to make him pay for her pain! For her failures. With his life.

 

[SMK]

To me, Jodi learned long ago that sex was her key to attracting men, she used it and gave her sexual favors freely. I know women like that and they are not the kind of women who have good relationships with other females, not that they care. Other women are just competition to them or people to use to get to the man they want.

I think Jodi would agree to play whatever role would keep a man interested. She seem way more than willing and happy to go along with sex acts that she now protests that she didn't enjoy. Just listen to how eagerly and easily she says to Travis about one such sex act " That is so debasing! I like it!!!".

So obviously she was giving him vibes that such stuff pleased her. She knows that some men like that stuff so she gets their attention by being that kind of girl. She doesn't just along with an idea, she revels in it and encourages it!! She lets him know she likes when he does that. She gives him ideas on what else he can do to her. She wanted him to keep coming back for more.

She needs to just own it and stop playing like she was abused. She asked for it, she let him know she enjoyed it and did not consider it abuse.

Then, aside from that, she freaking slaughtered him brutally, complete overkill. There is NO excuse for that, NONE. She was NOT defending herself, she was brutally attacking him relentlessly.

Oh this case gets to me and I just want her put away for life in a jail, whether she gets the death penalty or not. She is guilty by her own admission, WTF is there even to try and defend?

I am horrified at how Travis is continuing to be slaughtered by her. Bad enough she killed him, now she is going after his family, ripping their hearts out daily, acting like SHE is the victim.

No Travis wasn't perfect, who is? We do stupid things and live and learn. Not get killed for it.

She needs to remember her words "If I did this, I would ask for the death penalty" (paraphrased, not sure exactly how she said it). You did it Jodi, own it and spend the rest of your life paying for it. STOP trying to blame everyone else for your choices that you made and continue to make.

Sorry, I just need to rant every once in a while.

I completely agree with all you say, just one theory I have (and it does NOT make Jodi any less guilty nor point to self-defense, BTW):

I believe she wanted to shoot him in the shower, clean and simple, be done with it. She had to get out of there quickly as she knew the room mate was due home. I think the gun jammed and he lunged out of the shower - she had to grab the knife and slaughter him, and create a mess, for fear he would run to the neighbors and her goose would be cooked.

I think this is where the "overkill" comes in. I think she was calm and calculated and beyond, well beyond rage, when she killed him. It was cold and premeditated, but I am sure she did not want to be bothered with a blood bath. :moo::moo:

 

[lil_buddy]

Does Jodi Arias Have Borderline Personality Disorder?
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...di-arias-have-borderline-personality-disorder

 

[shelley921]

I would like to have been a fly on the wall when TA and JA first met. What vibe did Jodi give off that would make Travis believe that she would agree to oral sex after knowing him for a few days only? If Jodi had kissed him and then thrown him the he!! out of her bedroom, maybe they would have started down a different path. As soon as she allowed sex of any kind in the Hughes house, I think she lost any chance with Travis of a serious relationship.

About ta's relationship with Lisa, maybe she thought he was a bit old for her? Twelve year different seems like a lot for an eighteen year old girl. JMO

I too would have liked to have seen the way she presented herself to Travis in the beginning. But I actually do not believe Jodi's story about Travis coming into her bedroom [ at the Hughes' home] and kissing her and forcing her to allow him to perform oral sex on her. I think it is MUCH more likely she went into HIS bedroom and kissed HIM and asked him to do down on her!
SHE was the instigator and the aggressor sexually !

 

[shelley921]

I pretty much agree with all you posted here. May I just add my own little tidbit that helps me understand a woman in a situation like this.

She has met the man of her dreams, who could have given her the "rock star" life she wanted. She tried so hard to be the "one" he chose. After all she did to please him, kinky sex, etc., be the perfect girlfriend for him, she finally realized she would never be his wife. This crushed her ego but she pretended all was well with her. She moved back to where she came from - a tiny town nobody ever heard of - back to her grandparents little house, without many prospects job wise or man wise. To me, that would feel like failure. Back home with my tail between my legs, 27 years old, not married, and no job. Back living with Grandma and Grandpa. A failure! But Jodi is a different kind of woman. She won't admit any of this was her fault. She turns it all around, in her mind, and blames everyone else! It was Travis fault! His friends rejected me! She gets so angry and resentful and broods about it obsessively. She has to make him pay for her pain! For her failures. With his life.

yes--good - totally agree - she is a narcissist so of course she felt like a failure and it was all Travis fault! And the fault of his friends! yep - i imagine her there up in po-dunk yreka with her weird family and loser lifestyle. yuck.
it sure must have sucked to have been jodi back then but not as much as it sucks to be her NOW-! heh-heh

 

[shelley921]

Thanks :blushing: To err is Human... I personally have had to equivocate a few times but rational minds have prevailed, hopefully. I see no reason why there cannot be somewhat of an objective discussion. That's how we all learn. If everyone comes in screaming and are for the same thing, that's not learning, it's not productive, IMO.

IMO, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and we can sort it out like rational adults. I don't see why it has to be so difficult. :banghead:

Hope to hear your opinion too

several weeks ago, i said I thought that Travis had somewhat of a "jerk factor" about him [ if what jodi said was to be believed ] and if i was young and single he would not be my cup of tea. boy did people jump on me. this was on a different thread. recently on that same other thread, i said because of his chaotic childhood, Travis might have been attracted to "crazy". i got jumped on as if i was bad mouthing travis. i was only saying his childhood could possibly have been an explanation for why he kept on and on with crazy jodi.

i don't think Travis was all everyone says he was. He seemed to be somewhat immature for 30 years old.

i would not have put up with any sort of disrespect from any man.
but you can not believe anything jodi says - she lies all the time about everything. so how do we know he treated her disrespectfully. we can not know that for sure - can we?

 

[SwampMama]

I completely agree with all you say, just one theory I have (and it does NOT make Jodi any less guilty nor point to self-defense, BTW):

I believe she wanted to shoot him in the shower, clean and simple, be done with it. She had to get out of there quickly as she knew the room mate was due home. I think the gun jammed and he lunged out of the shower - she had to grab the knife and slaughter him, and create a mess, for fear he would run to the neighbors and her goose would be cooked.

I think this is where the "overkill" comes in. I think she was calm and calculated and beyond, well beyond rage, when she killed him. It was cold and premeditated, but I am sure she did not want to be bothered with a blood bath. :moo::moo:

I have to agree right back with you. I do think she was hoping to confine the crime to the shower and be able to wash down the scene and make a clean getaway so to speak. That didn't happen and she was desperate and furious, he was NOT going to walk away from her or send her away.

I think the overkill was because he didn't die as easily, quietly or in any way that she had planned. When she says that he said "F'ing kill you B@#%%" I can believe he said that. Now being a well spoken person, it leads me to believe his capacity to speak was impaired and those were the only real words he was able to get out and the rest was just the sounds of his anguish and pain and shock over being slaughtered.

He struggled to speak. He was dying, just not quickly enough and quietly enough for her.

It is just stunning to me that she thinks she was in anyway justified. She should have walked away from him long ago but instead she couldn't let him go and relentlessness perused him, stalked him and obsessed over him. It is creepy and terrifying to think that there are people like that out there but there are and she is a perfect example.

It was amazing to watch her behavior in the interrogation tapes. She was quite worried what everyone would think and know about her, yet she still continued her bizarre lies, behavior, primping and inappropriate comments such as telling the detective something like " You are so weird" but in a flirtatious way.

She obsessed over Travis and was obsessed with what others in his circle thought of her. It is just bizarre. She didn't fit in and it just ate away at her. They didn't care about her, just wanted her gone and they would have never given her another thought. But she couldn't walk away. She couldn't let them "win" (I guess).

And here she is, costing us millions in cost to "defend" her actions which are just inexcusable by any standards. If she thinks this is excusable then imagine all the creepy, stalking, manipulative she did to Travis and his friends. To her it was justifiable , she has no thoughts of other having a right to be left alone, or to have privacy or to not have to be forced to deal with her. In her mind, only SHE has rights and everyone else is supposed to just deal with it and let her have her way.

Umm, no, sorry lil miss sociopath, this is where you learn that this in NOT acceptable and you are put on a time out for the rest of your life so that others can live the lives without fear of what your psycho self will do the next time you feel "abused".

I'm just in a ranting mood today. I watch and read so much and absorb and then finally release it. Seriously I took my time writing this, walked away, did some cleaning and housework, reread my thoughts and added on. Ok, someone else's turn. I find everyone else's thoughts and contributions to this thread very valuable and insightful. Thanks everyone for speaking out.

 

[SMK]

I have to agree right back with you. I do think she was hoping to confine the crime to the shower and be able to wash down the scene and make a clean getaway so to speak. That didn't happen and she was desperate and furious, he was NOT going to walk away from her or send her away.

I think the overkill was because he didn't die as easily, quietly or in any way that she had planned. When she says that he said "F'ing kill you B@#%%" I can believe he said that. Now being a well spoken person, it leads me to believe his capacity to speak was impaired and those were the only real words he was able to get out and the rest was just the sounds of his anguish and pain and shock over being slaughtered.

He struggled to speak. He was dying, just not quickly enough and quietly enough for her.

It is just stunning to me that she thinks she was in anyway justified. She should have walked away from him long ago but instead she couldn't let him go and relentlessness perused him, stalked him and obsessed over him. It is creepy and terrifying to think that there are people like that out there but there are and she is a perfect example.

It was amazing to watch her behavior in the interrogation tapes. She was quite worried what everyone would think and know about her, yet she still continued her bizarre lies, behavior, primping and inappropriate comments such as telling the detective something like " You are so weird" but in a flirtatious way.

She obsessed over Travis and was obsessed with what others in his circle thought of her. It is just bizarre. She didn't fit in and it just ate away at her. They didn't care about her, just wanted her gone and they would have never given her another thought. But she couldn't walk away. She couldn't let them "win" (I guess).

And here she is, costing us millions in cost to "defend" her actions which are just inexcusable by any standards. If she thinks this is excusable then imagine all the creepy, stalking, manipulative she did to Travis and his friends. To her it was justifiable , she has no thoughts of other having a right to be left alone, or to have privacy or to not have to be forced to deal with her. In her mind, only SHE has rights and everyone else is supposed to just deal with it and let her have her way.

Umm, no, sorry lil miss sociopath, this is where you learn that this in NOT acceptable and you are put on a time out for the rest of your life so that others can live the lives without fear of what your psycho self will do the next time you feel "abused".

I'm just in a ranting mood today. I watch and read so much and absorb and then finally release it. Seriously I took my time writing this, walked away, did some cleaning and housework, reread my thoughts and added on. Ok, someone else's turn. I find everyone else's thoughts and contributions to this thread very valuable and insightful. Thanks everyone for speaking out.

:goodpost:
Sometimes a bit of 'ranting' helps calm you.