ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#23

[factfinda]

Yes, I totally sympathise with that. I think the hardest thing for any journalist to do is condense all of their information down to a specific - and very limited - word or time limit. And what's worse is when someone else (producer or sub-editor) makes that decision for you and you have no control over the final story. Some news organisations (particularly the ABC) will upload the full interview or transcript later, but I think they should all do this.

This is one reason I rarely do media interviews these days. The editorial decisions, regardless of what motivates them, can lead to misconceptions.

 

[YoureNicked]

I agree with this - and I would be facing that courtroom with my head held high if I knew I was innocent - I would be furious, indignant and visually pleading for support from those who I could make eye contact with! (but I know it is easy to say this when I'm not in the situation)

Hi everyone...my first post but have been following this case (and forum) since the beginning. Another one here who has had dealings with a narcissist, unfortunately and I can relate to so many people who have seen their lack of emotional responsiveness and empathy, first hand.

Hi Thinking (re: your quote above) - yes, a normal, innocent person would face the court, indignant that he/she was being charged falsely...but, if Gerard, is a narcissist/sociopath (as many of us suspect), he thinks of himself as a King and the rest of us as 'subjects/slaves' only here to pander to him.

We, the 'servants/underlings/peasants' have effectively engaged in revolt against 'The King', accusing him of being a murderer...Therefore, in his mind, we are not worthy of even seeing his face.

Hence the turned back in the courtroom. I don't think it's shame he feels but intense anger at, what in his eyes, is the total injustice of the situation.

MY OPINION ONLY

 

[Thinking]

I live in hope that he will eventually plead guilty - only way to spare everyone else trauma of drawn out trial. But then he isn't renown for thinking of others, is he?

I wonder if he thinks about Allison at all? Or does he just think about himself and the awful situation he is in and how it is impacting on him and his future. Interesting from a psychological perspective - I do really wonder what he is thinking.

 

[bikerchick]

One thing that is making me feel sick is that if GBC murdered his wife in cold blood, why release pictures drawn by the girls, saying "come back Mum" and "you're awesome Mum". Why have the girls do such things if he knew she was long gone - it seems so wrong.

Were those pictures voluntarily drawn or were the girls forced to do them? (by GBC) . It makes my heart heavy to think of either scenario.

Just my opinion here, but I am filled with unspeakable sadness for Allison's daughters.
*these drawings were released to the media early on in the search. I'm not sure of a link I can provide.

 

[CaseClosed]

Hi everyone...my first post but have been following this case (and forum) since the beginning. Another one here who has had dealings with a narcissist, unfortunately and I can relate to so many people who have seen their lack of emotional responsiveness and empathy, first hand.

Hi Thinking (re: your quote above) - yes, a normal, innocent person would face the court, indignant that he/she was being charged falsely...but, if Gerard, is a narcissist/sociopath (as many of us suspect), he thinks of himself as a King and the rest of us as 'subjects/slaves' only here to pander to him.

We, the 'servants/underlings/peasants' have effectively engaged in revolt against 'The King', accusing him of being a murderer...Therefore, in his mind, we are not worthy of even seeing his face.

Hence the turned back in the courtroom. I don't think it's shame he feels but intense anger at, what in his eyes, is the total
injustice of the situation.

MY OPINION ONLY

Welcome! ... and thanks. Considering what you have indicated above, are you of the opinion that he will fight the charges? ... or is there a possibility characters like these could just give up and plead guilty?

EDIT: Love your tag name!!

 

[Limaes]

Hi again. Allison picked the girls up from school on the Thursday afternoon. She spoke to one of the other mums at that time who has given a statement to the police.
I have a point to discuss though I am not sure if it has already discussed in early threads. It's about her clothes and GBC story of either Allison going for a late night walk or watching tv. I agree with other locals that have posted that no one in their right mind would walk around Brookfield late at night because there are not many street lights. If she went for a walk at night to get out of the house because of an argument it is unlikely that she would go and get changed into walking clothes first. I am not sure but she may have had different clothes on when she picked up the girls from school. I was wondering if the clothes she was found in might have been put on her after she was murdered. If GBC had not seen her go out for this supposed walk how would he know exactly what she was wearing when he reported her missing on the Friday? I have been trying to think of flaws in his story to the police. Has anyone else discussed this?

I have suggested before about the whereabouts of the clothes she wore to the hairdressers (hairdresser said different clothes to what she was found in) and someone replied that it wasn't important I think it is very important especially if she was wearing them when she died! They could contain important evidence.

It's possible she changed her clothes herself when she got home, but why would she put on walking shoes/joggers if she was just sitting around watching tv?

 

[Fuskier]

IMO the surprise visit at Toowong to detain GBC was a very strategic move by QPS..
...IMO custody of the children and the ability to allow questioning ( probably involving TV programming) will form part and a major part of the DPP s brief and the strategic move without informing the Lawyers, GBC moving back to Brookfield and the subsequent “care and control “ of the children’s best interests have resulted in QPS and DPP “outplaying, outlasting and outwitting” GBC and his legal team. IMO very poor advice to move back home, a fatal error.
IMO IMO IMO IMO

... and good on the QPS I say. Allison has been brutally murdered, cut down in the prime of her life, her right to live a normal life expectancy and to parent her own children tragically ended at the hands of her alleged killer.

 

[Nads]

How about if GBC did do the murder, and then called on his trusty army-trained sister OW. O, O, you have to come over straight away, something terrible has happened. O comes, not knowing what is the problem, then he convinces her to help him. My kids will have no parents if I give myself up, it would kill mum and dad etc etc. O says ok we need to make it look like A killed herself. She is a bit smarter than him, though extremely panicked, and comes up with the idea of changing her clothes etc. Extremely fuzzy on the details of cars, deciding on body disposal etc.

Anyway, it's possible that N and E didn't know what happened. O eventually decides to spill her guts in exchange for immunity from prosecution, and N and E are still none the wiser.

A possibility.

 

[Limaes]

Hi everyone...my first post but have been following this case (and forum) since the beginning. Another one here who has had dealings with a narcissist, unfortunately and I can relate to so many people who have seen their lack of emotional responsiveness and empathy, first hand.

Hi Thinking (re: your quote above) - yes, a normal, innocent person would face the court, indignant that he/she was being charged falsely...but, if Gerard, is a narcissist/sociopath (as many of us suspect), he thinks of himself as a King and the rest of us as 'subjects/slaves' only here to pander to him.

We, the 'servants/underlings/peasants' have effectively engaged in revolt against 'The King', accusing him of being a murderer...Therefore, in his mind, we are not worthy of even seeing his face.

Hence the turned back in the courtroom. I don't think it's shame he feels but intense anger at, what in his eyes, is the total injustice of the situation.

MY OPINION ONLY

Agreed

 

[YoureNicked]

Welcome! ... and thanks. Considering what you have indicated above, are you of the opinion that he will fight the charges? ... or is there a possibility characters like these could just give up and plead guilty?

EDIT: Love your tag name!!

Thanks CaseClosed for your welcome. Lovely to be amongst some fantastic, kind and smart people!

Regarding your question (above), I think, if Gerard truly is the sociopath (major delusions of grandeur!) then he will never admit to guilt. He will secretly be loving the attention (whether positive or negative, it's all the same to them...to me, his pre-arrest photos always showed a smug expression).

Then, if he is convicted and sent to gaol then he will begin founding his new 'kingdom/empire/sphere of influence'...Finding new 'fans' and sycophants to serve him.

MOO MOO!

 

[wakeskate]

I agree with this - and I would be facing that courtroom with my head held high if I knew I was innocent - I would be furious, indignant and visually pleading for support from those who I could make eye contact with! (but I know it is easy to say this when I'm not in the situation)

And if he did that everyone would be saying how cocky he thought he was with his top notch lawyer thinking he was going to get away with it.

People can comment all the like on how he has acted through this entire thing, but everyone acts differently and to me it means nothing. Bring on the hard evidence I say.

 

[Fuskier]

Yes, and I wonder who has access/manages his account?? You cannot have more friends unless someone is accepting the friend's requests .. and we know it is not GBC!

Very good point. Who is managing his FB account?

 

[Limaes]

Thanks CaseClosed for your welcome. Lovely to be amongst some fantastic, kind and smart people!

Regarding your question (above), I think, if Gerard truly is the sociopath (major delusions of grandeur!) then he will never admit to guilt. He will secretly be loving the attention (whether positive or negative, it's all the same to them...to me, his pre-arrest photos always showed a smug expression).

Then, if he is convicted and sent to gaol then he will begin founding his new 'kingdom/empire/sphere of influence'...Finding new 'fans' and sycophants to serve him.

MOO MOO!

Speaking of loving the attention, every piece of footage showing OW talking to the media has given me the gut feeling that she enjoyed the attention. When GBC did that interview in front of his parents house (the one where she bites her lip and moves her head closer to hear what he is saying) he eventually walks away and instead of following him (she had the opportunity to walk away too) she chose to engage the reporter in further conversation. I am thinking that GBC shouldn't be the only one sitting in jail for this crime. jmo

 

[Mothergoose]

Thanks for that post seeking. I understand what you are saying and I believe what you are saying is well and truly complete and utter unconditional love. Agreed it does not mean you agree with or approve of what they have done.. The saying something along the lines of 'Hate the action, or be appalled by the action, not the person' But I know and understand there would be many who could not bring themselves to that point. thanks for your perspective.

I agree completely. Hating /disowning a loved one for whatever reason would accomplish what? As human beings we are ALL capable of bad things under certain circumstances. Thank God we are also capable of remorse ,regret, rehabilitation and change, but not without someone loving you. If everyone/parents turned their backs on those who are considered evil by others, what good could come from it. If GBC is found guilty he will truely suffer not only in this life but the next. I would hope that we all love our children unconditionally.Having said that though, if my son were convicted of harming/molesting a child or premeditated murder,I would really really struggle with the position I would take.I thank God I am not in that position .I personally don't think this tragedy was planned but was the result of emotions gone out of control. If GBC was having an affair that was known to all ,they should not have been living under the same roof. A situation like that is bound to explode and would have been an unhealthy environment for all concerned.
I think IMO GBC struck ABC and when he realised she was deceased he decided to cover his tracks. If anyone helped him (NBC?) I think it was unwillingly participation and has been given immunity.I pray that Allison rests in peace and that his parents and siblings are innocent decent people and most of all that those three girls find some peace and eventual happiness in their innocent lives. In their eyes, their Daddy is still innocent I'm sure.I believe GBC loves his daughters and they him. If he says he is innocent and continues to do so regardless of being found guilty in a court of law I think they will believe him because they love him and he is their daddy ........that in itself would be a tragedy if he is in fact not innocent. That's unconditional love I guess....IMO

 

[Limaes]

IMO the surprise visit at Toowong to detain GBC was a very strategic move by QPS. IMO they could have alerted his highly respected and learned Lawyer to have GBC attend voluntarily with him. Why do I think it was strategic, well IMO the QPS need to question / interview the children and they were not able to, so the best way was to wait for GBC to move back into the residence at Brookfield. Why is this important, because of the Procedure needed to gain access to the children.
I ll explain further, DOCS would have been informed of an arrest/detention and would have taken custody of the children if there was concern for their welfare. If they were with the BC s then I assume that that arrangement should have been suitable for them to remain with them during this assessment period. DOCS would have to Apply to a Magistrate immediately for a TAO (Temporary Assessment Order) which places the “care and control” of the children with DOCS for 3 days in order to make a proper assessment of where the children should be placed. They can apply for an extension of assessment however they should be following the Family Court Principles which usually is causing as little disruption to their routine, what they are familiar with and used to, where their friends are, school etc, and in the absence of any danger / threat or unsuitability, then they should be placed with their best interests at the forefront of any decision. Why is this important, well ultimately the Family Court could/should decide where the children reside and who should make decisions about their short and long term welfare. Any decision that is made in the Family Court will override any decision made by any State Qld Dept.
Why is this important, because whoever has “care and control” of the children could allow QPS to interview them, I am assuming Dickies will, BC s wouldn’t, a massive difference to any relevant evidence.
However, it is interesting to note here that if and when any Application is made to the Family Court by the BC s, normally you need a strong case to alter the status quo ie where the children currently are comfortable, with willing and able carers, amongst other things such as assessments made previously etc until a proper determination/ Application could be made, which could be some 2 years away. I think the subsequent abuse of the Police by the BC s in informing them of an arrest would form part of this assessment as to “unsuitability” and thus allowing QPS access to the children s evidence. If the children were still living at BC s, then the Dept would not (in a normal world) have any reason to alter their custody. However the media seemed to have played their part in this, how do they justify camping out at the BC s where the children are previously, but now leaving them alone while they are at the Dickies, DOUBLE STANDARDS.
As we operate in an Adversarial Justice System, applications/complaints have to made by people, evidence presented and determined by that evidence. Decisions are not made just because they should or everyone thinks they should. This process is for everyone’s protection, not just for this case. Put yourself in similar shoes to try and grasp the severity of the process. Who should determine where your children are placed if you are sick, hurt etc and couldn’t t care for them. Should the media camp outside your place because it makes them money until such time as they are placed somewhere else. If you can grasp this, then you will see similarities to the stolen generation of indigenous where improper manipulation and process and opinion was used to alter their rights.
IMO custody of the children and the ability to allow questioning ( probably involving TV programming) will form part and a major part of the DPP s brief and the strategic move without informing the Lawyers, GBC moving back to Brookfield and the subsequent “care and control “ of the children’s best interests have resulted in QPS and DPP “outplaying, outlasting and outwitting” GBC and his legal team. IMO very poor advice to move back home, a fatal error.
IMO IMO IMO IMO

Thank you for this post They really did take him, his family & legal team by surprise.

I hope the media stays away now from Allison's children & family.

 

[Thinking]

Hi everyone...my first post but have been following this case (and forum) since the beginning. Another one here who has had dealings with a narcissist, unfortunately and I can relate to so many people who have seen their lack of emotional responsiveness and empathy, first hand.

Hi Thinking (re: your quote above) - yes, a normal, innocent person would face the court, indignant that he/she was being charged falsely...but, if Gerard, is a narcissist/sociopath (as many of us suspect), he thinks of himself as a King and the rest of us as 'subjects/slaves' only here to pander to him.

We, the 'servants/underlings/peasants' have effectively engaged in revolt against 'The King', accusing him of being a murderer...Therefore, in his mind, we are not worthy of even seeing his face.

Hence the turned back in the courtroom. I don't think it's shame he feels but intense anger at, what in his eyes, is the total injustice of the situation.

MY OPINION ONLY

Thanks YoureNicked (love the name too ) - this is very interesting and I'm sorry you had to deal with someone like this.

So from your experience, do you think that in his own mind he believes he is innocent (even if he isn't)? Do you think he has convinced himself it didn't happen, or has he convinced himself that somehow Allison deserved it?

Also, do you think he is genuinely surprised that the police and general public believe he did it? I have wondered if he seriously thought that, given his "standing" in the community etc, noone would ever in a million years suspect he would do something like this.

 

[YoureNicked]

Very good point. Who is managing his FB account?

I would think/hope the police (go QPS!) would have control of just about every aspect of his life, right now.

MOO

 

[Greg]

How about if GBC did do the murder, and then called on his trusty army-trained sister OW. O, O, you have to come over straight away, something terrible has happened. O comes, not knowing what is the problem, then he convinces her to help him. My kids will have no parents if I give myself up, it would kill mum and dad etc etc. O says ok we need to make it look like A killed herself. She is a bit smarter than him, though extremely panicked, and comes up with the idea of changing her clothes etc. Extremely fuzzy on the details of cars, deciding on body disposal etc.

Anyway, it's possible that N and E didn't know what happened. O eventually decides to spill her guts in exchange for immunity from prosecution, and N and E are still none the wiser.

A possibility.

Quite possible nads, lucky she was around that night.

 

[Trooper]

Surely bail would not be granted on the charge of interfering with a corpse??


I can cope with a murderer walking around , yapping on his cell phone, but I draw the line at a corpse interferer strolling around. Beyond the Pale.

 

[Greg]

Speaking of loving the attention, every piece of footage showing OW talking to the media has given me the gut feeling that she enjoyed the attention. When GBC did that interview in front of his parents house (the one where she bites her lip and moves her head closer to hear what he is saying) he eventually walks away and instead of following him (she had the opportunity to walk away too) she chose to engage the reporter in further conversation. I am thinking that GBC shouldn't be the only one sitting in jail for this crime. jmo

Your not the only one thinking along these lines...