ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#24

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HOW ON EARTH would anyone know this detail?

Further, Brisbane is quite a small town. Lawyers will be clamouring over this one, and quite likely are acting pro-bono for the publicity. The payoff will be when they get him released.

Alternatively...watch and wait for GBC to change legal representation mid-stream. IMO this is likely to happen when the details of the prosecution case are revealed and even blind freddy is forced to admit GBC's involvement. The high priced lawyers will drop him in a heartbeat.

People with access to databases can retrieve this type of info about mortgages over properties, dates, etc.

Someone explained several weeks ago (I think it was Hawkins) that if a lawyer knows a client is guilty because he has confessed this to them, they cannot represent them in Court as being "not guilty". They would need to advise pleading guilty. What I believe may happen, is that this high flying Barrister may not actually represent him and he may get Legal Aid considering his business has gone down the tube.
 
I believe his family is wealthy...also, bail is without cost in Australia.

He would be released to a certain address and whoever has bailed him will be guarantor, but no money will actually change hands unless he absconds.

This is an extract from Queensland court website re: Bail http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/courts/district-court/bail

Bail
You can apply for bail if you are a defendant and you want to be released from custody while waiting for trial or sentencing. Bail is a written promise to return to court.
Both the Supreme and District Courts can grant bail.

All bail orders are processed as a matter of urgency and will often include conditions such as lodging a sum of money.

The money will be refunded:

after the court has dealt with the charges
if the defendant complies with all the bail conditions
 
People with access to databases can retrieve this type of info about mortgages over properties, dates, etc.

More often than not, such an access is restricted and controlled based on the need to know policy.
 
Thanks for this info KG1.

My concern about this type of evidence (pollen, soil etc) from Kholo Creek and similar evidence being found on the vehicle, would be that, when Allison died, from memory there were at least nine Anstead properties listed with Century 21 Westside. I worry that the defence will say that the cars were often out at that area anyway.

I guess it would be harder to explain the pollen etc if found on particular items of clothing (not work related clothing) or non-work shoes etc.

Perhaps they've found pollen or soil which is specific to Kholo Creek only....or a certain section of the creek...even somthing like grass seeds from grass which only grows in that particular location where Allison's body was found.
 
Anybody with some level security clearances could track ISPs down to a particular address, person, etc.

For users with dynamic address allocation it is not possible. It's possible to identify a server though, that is at least the first 16 bit of the actual address. One needs a special application to identify a computer identification number, but I do not think it's available to individuals. JMO.
 
Hi all - woke up worrying about the girls. I have been trawling through the last thread re bail/ access to the kids and I don't think we had a definitive hypothesis? (very well could be wrong...). I'll set out some scenarios - does anyone know if any of the last few are a remote possibility? Do we have precedents on access to children for (alleged) murderers, if they happen to get bail? (tummy turns). Please, please, let the girls be completely safe physically and mentally post-Thursday. ok - here goes:
a) ABC family get/keep full custody with no access to any adult BCs
b) ABC family get/ keep custody with some access to non-arrested BCs
c) ABC family get/ keep custody with some access by bailed BC
d) BC family get custody, with some access to ABC family
e) Bailed BC gets custody, with some access to ABC family
f) Bailed BC gets custody, with no access to ABC family

I guess there are other random options like Child Safety getting care for them from a 'neutral outsider', but I imagine one of the above will be the outcome on Thursday? Surely there are no instances of e) or f), especially where mental health appears to be in issue? Thoughts?

PS - have I told you lately that I luv u guys?? Love the ongoing vigil. Al deserves no less

When I watched the news last week and heard the Dickies had temporary custody, it was stated it was until yesterday only (Monday). If so, there must have been a further application to the Family Court yesterday. Someone also informed us that OW had been appointed guardian by GBC before he was arrested, but the Court had ignored this when awarding temporary custody to the Dickies.

My take is that if GBC gets bail (very slim chance IMO), the girls will not be placed in his care right from the word go but there will be a legal battle between him and the Dickies. I honestly don't think the BC seniors want to have the girls at this stage ... they have enough on their plate as it is (and who knows, maybe there will be more on their plates soon too!). The Dickies had the forethought of establishing the fund and with the fund raiser being held this weekend, I think financially they would look okay to the judge determining this custody issue. On the other hand, if GBC is kept inside, I think the Dickies have a good chance to have custody of the girls. But it's just my humble opinion.
 
Can you imagine the strain of being present at your (alleged) victim's funeral?

Maybe his actions hit home finally, when he saw his daughters faces.

Or maybe he was just overwrought because his plan was coming apart at the seams.

I have no doubt that GBC is a stupid, stupid man.

Maybe there was a bit of acting on his part too...he would have been well aware of the media/cameras surrounding him that day.

IF he is the one who killed Allison, the "little bit hurt" interview was one hell of an acting performance......followed up weeks later with the "business as usual".

....just my opinion.
 
I believe his family is wealthy...also, bail is without cost in Australia.

He would be released to a certain address and whoever has bailed him will be guarantor, but no money will actually change hands unless he absconds.

Similar to the Mokbel case, he was out on bail, fled, and his Sister (IIRC) had to come up with a heap of cash
 
Social media is a juggernaut. It's way too big and embedded to control or shut down. It can be regulated though, with the cooperation and common sense of everyone involved in it. I think internet communities have been given a huge amount of power and its largely up to them to consider how they use it. It has grown too quickly for the law to keep pace. Australians have always valued a fair go and as a culture I think we strike a pretty good balance between not letting ourselves be dictated to by authority but also respecting the rights of others. That's why I love the joint. We're not perfect but i think we do it better here than in most other places.

I know almost nothing about Mr Baden Clay except that the QPS believe he murdered his wife. As a fellow Aussie I reckon I owe him the right to a proper hearing based on the evidence that passes the court's test for fairness. I reckon his family and those who care about him, including his kids, also deserve some respect and consideration. It would be bad enough having lost one family member then having another one accused of killing her without every Tom, Dick and Harry suggesting all sorts of other horrific things without any regulation at all. If enough people repeat an allegation, no matter how little real evidence there is for it, it starts to acquire the trappings of 'fact'. People forget where the rumour started and it gets passed on as if it's true. That can be truly hurtful to the subject of the allegations but also totally devestating if the the subject is facing a serious criminal charge that could result in them having the rest of their life ruined and their family torn apart.

On the other hand, I don't feel any particular sympathy for the guy beyond that, for all the reasons that were discussed here before the arrest. And all the talk about permanent stays on indictments and aborted trials I reckon doesn't really help. It just confuses people further and it causes defensive reactions and perhaps even intensifies the level of animosity when people feel their right to have an opinion is threatened. I listened to the lunch break video on the CM yesterday and it all just sounded like confused waffle to me. All well intentioned but full of mixed messages and uncertainty about what they were actually trying to say.

I also reckon that most people are fair minded enough that when a judge tells them to make a decision based only on the evidence they hear in the court that they can and will do that. Presumably judges are fair and decent enough to follow that advice themselves, so why can't we extend the same assumption of decency to the members of the community who do jury service? So many people are on social media and internet forums now that there's little point in hoping that vague warnings about subjudice will just stop internet speculation. That would be just sticking our heads in the sand.

I've got no answers to any of this, but I think that each of us could at least pause for thought before we press 'submit' on a post and consider whether what we are doing or saying is fair to all concnerned. I don't reckon that the law can effectivley regulate, on its own, what happens in social media these days but we can all play our part by valuing the wider audience it gives to our thoughts and by continuing to question our own actions. Just MOO. I'd really like to hear other people's opinions about this.
 
I've got no answers to any of this, but I think that each of us could at least pause for thought before we press 'submit' on a post and consider whether what we are doing or saying is fair to all concnerned. I don't reckon that the law can effectivley regulate, on its own, what happens in social media these days but we can all play our part by valuing the wider audience it gives to our thoughts and by continuing to question our own actions. Just MOO. I'd really like to hear other people's opinions about this.


BBM

Couldnt agree more Hawkins, and ive been guilty of this and earned a little 2 days respite in the websleuth jacuzzi.

When a response/post may be contentious, I try to write 3 times... and post once. In doing this, my thoughts are captured in the right vein, and are seen to be measured and appropriate. But its now always the case as a few of us have found out.

Knowing that people involved in this closely could read our discussion (and probably have) should be enough of a catatlyst to approach things carefully and respectfully.
 
Social media is a juggernaut. It's way too big and embedded to control or shut down. It can be regulated though, with the cooperation and common sense of everyone involved in it. I think internet communities have been given a huge amount of power and its largely up to them to consider how they use it. It has grown too quickly for the law to keep pace. Australians have always valued a fair go and as a culture I think we strike a pretty good balance between not letting ourselves be dictated to by authority but also respecting the rights of others. That's why I love the joint. We're not perfect but i think we do it better here than in most other places.

I know almost nothing about Mr Baden Clay except that the QPS believe he murdered his wife. As a fellow Aussie I reckon I owe him the right to a proper hearing based on the evidence that passes the court's test for fairness. I reckon his family and those who care about him, including his kids, also deserve some respect and consideration. It would be bad enough having lost one family member then having another one accused of killing her without every Tom, Dick and Harry suggesting all sorts of other horrific things without any regulation at all. If enough people repeat an allegation, no matter how little real evidence there is for it, it starts to acquire the trappings of 'fact'. People forget where the rumour started and it gets passed on as if it's true. That can be truly hurtful to the subject of the allegations but also totally devestating if the the subject is facing a serious criminal charge that could result in them having the rest of their life ruined and their family torn apart.

On the other hand, I don't feel any particular sympathy for the guy beyond that, for all the reasons that were discussed here before the arrest. And all the talk about permanent stays on indictments and aborted trials I reckon doesn't really help. It just confuses people further and it causes defensive reactions and perhaps even intensifies the level of animosity when people feel their right to have an opinion is threatened. I listened to the lunch break video on the CM yesterday and it all just sounded like confused waffle to me. All well intentioned but full of mixed messages and uncertainty about what they were actually trying to say.

I also reckon that most people are fair minded enough that when a judge tells them to make a decision based only on the evidence they hear in the court that they can and will do that. Presumably judges are fair and decent enough to follow that advice themselves, so why can't we extend the same assumption of decency to the members of the community who do jury service? So many people are on social media and internet forums now that there's little point in hoping that vague warnings about subjudice will just stop internet speculation. That would be just sticking our heads in the sand.

I've got no answers to any of this, but I think that each of us could at least pause for thought before we press 'submit' on a post and consider whether what we are doing or saying is fair to all concnerned. I don't reckon that the law can effectivley regulate, on its own, what happens in social media these days but we can all play our part by valuing the wider audience it gives to our thoughts and by continuing to question our own actions. Just MOO. I'd really like to hear other people's opinions about this.

Great post, Hawkins. This seems to be both the fair and sensible approach to the whole 'social media and justice' debate. I agree entirely.

:aktion:
 
Alternatively...watch and wait for GBC to change legal representation mid-stream. IMO this is likely to happen when the details of the prosecution case are revealed and even blind freddy is forced to admit GBC's involvement. The high priced lawyers will drop him in a heartbeat.


I wondered the same thing.
 
My take is that if GBC gets bail (very slim chance IMO), the girls will not be placed in his care right from the word go but there will be a legal battle between him and the Dickies. I honestly don't think the BC seniors want to have the girls at this stage ... they have enough on their plate as it is (and who knows, maybe there will be more on their plates soon too!). The Dickies had the forethought of establishing the fund and with the fund raiser being held this weekend, I think financially they would look okay to the judge determining this custody issue. On the other hand, if GBC is kept inside, I think the Dickies have a good chance to have custody of the girls. But it's just my humble opinion.

I hope he doesn't get them, and, since he was in the medical ward at Wacol, I also hope the prosecutors can use his unbalanced state of mind as evidence at the hearing for why he shouldn't get them.

IMO, this is all technical. I really don't think bail will be successful.
 
HAWKINS - Thank you again for another great post! I particularly appreciate the fairness and balance of your input.
 
Just noticed a shopfront on the corner of Moggill Rd. (near the old Coffee Club, now Rosa Mexicana) with Century 21 Westside Real Estate Signage on windows. Doors were cello-d shut. Looks New? Hmmmm

can anyone verify the vacuum cleaner bag story?(Marly, link queen?) traces of pollen perhaps?

also, how will we know us @ cricket?
 
People with access to databases can retrieve this type of info about mortgages over properties, dates, etc.

Someone explained several weeks ago (I think it was Hawkins) that if a lawyer knows a client is guilty because he has confessed this to them, they cannot represent them in Court as being "not guilty". They would need to advise pleading guilty. What I believe may happen, is that this high flying Barrister may not actually represent him and he may get Legal Aid considering his business has gone down the tube.

That's right CC but the only information you can get re: Mortgages is if you do a title search and then it only states which bank holds the Mortgage and when it was lodged. There is no possible way of knowing how much the mortgage is so not sure where they would have gotten the figure of $300k.
 
Just noticed a shopfront on the corner of Moggill Rd. (near the old Coffee Club, now Rosa Mexicana) with Century 21 Westside Real Estate Signage on windows. Doors were cello-d shut. Looks New? Hmmmm

There's two listings for C21 Westside...one is Swann Rd,Taringa, the other Moggill Rd, Kenmore. Has there always been these two listed??

can anyone verify the vacuum cleaner bag story?(Marly, link queen?) traces of pollen perhaps?

Nothing that I know of has been released by media about vacuum bag....I think this mention came from member itsthevibe.

also, how will we know us @ cricket?

I hope no-one replies to that question on open forum....
 
I know almost nothing about Mr Baden Clay except that the QPS believe he murdered his wife. As a fellow Aussie I reckon I owe him the right to a proper hearing based on the evidence that passes the court's test for fairness.

:woohoo::rocker:

That would also apply to 99.9% of us here.
Everyone has draw to a conclusion regarding a whole heap of circumstantial evidence (not even evidence, but a string of rumours and talk about how he acted)
Give the guy his chance to be tried correctly and assess the evidence as QPS presents it.
 
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