Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #1

[suzihawk]

BBM. IMO, it is Mama VDS placed it to be found.

IMO, I believe she has known all along and now that her husband has passed away, which I think she was afraid of (he always appeared to be a wife abuser to me) and she has realized her son is not coming home from prison and perhaps has come to terms he is a psycopathic murderer and never coming home.

With both Joran and his father gone, perhaps she isn't afraid anymore and actually has some empathy for Beth & Dave.

She is a mother and maybe she saw the video of Beth w/ Joran and realized now she is in Beth's shoes (so to speak), but she at least KNOWS where her son is, unlike the Holloway's.

IMO, I have always thought she was buried under the VDS's house.

Again, JMO and still anxious for the results.

I've always had a nagging feeling that Natalee was buried on the VDS property. The property was never searched to my knowledge. In fact, I think the Vandersloots refused to allow the property to be searched, but I can't swear by that.

BUT, I certainly don't think Anita has suddenly grown a conscience or empathy toward Beth Holloway. Nope, I don't buy it. It's my opinion that Anita has known every single detail of what happened five and half years ago and everything that has subsequently took place - right up to the present. Moreover, I believe she was just as instrumental (if not more) in steering this case in the many directions it's taken.

I have no doubt this mandible (if Natalee's - and I believe it is) was planted. From the very beginning, Aruba and the powers that be (including Anita) just wanted all this to go away. And it might very well have been but a mere blip in the news if it weren't for the tenacity of Natalee's mother. They got way more than they expected or bargained for and found that, indeed, this was NOT going to go away. By that time, it was too late for them to backtrack without losing face. "In for a penny, in for a pound." The charade continued and escalated.

Now is the perfect time for them to save what little dignity and reputation they have left (which is precious little - zero, IMO,) by allowing this sudden discovery to come to light and attempting to put to rest any further speculation.

If this jaw doesn't belong to Natalee, they would have released that information already, IMO. I predict they're going to announce it's Natalee sometime late Wednesday or Thursday when everyone is busy with their holiday festivities. The Arubans are consistent and predictable in the handling of this case. Gotta give 'em that.

 

[passionflower]

Susihawk
oh yes you may be right on the timing............we may have a long wait.
Media has us all on alert..........

 

[Carrington]

IF (big if) I remember correctly, the VDS property was searched.
I see this picture in my mind of LE-Search dogs- A white van type truck being towed away. There was also something to do with a well on the property, and a monkey that lived next door.

Not to say they just didn't want to find anything, I do think they searched in a untimely manner, after much prodding.
IMO

 

[nola]

Any chance that this is a ploy -someone close to Joran planting the jaw bone- to get Joran extradited back to Aruba and out of the jail in Peru?

 

[suzihawk]

IF (big if) I remember correctly, the VDS property was searched.
I see this picture in my mind of LE-Search dogs- A white van type truck being towed away. There was also something to do with a well on the property, and a monkey that lived next door.

Not to say they just didn't want to find anything, I do think they searched in a untimely manner, after much prodding.
IMO

A full search was never done, IIRC. They only searched JVS's 'apartment'.

It was ten days before the Kalpoe residence was searched and another six days before the VDS apartment was searched. This was well after the arrest of the two security guards, which wasted much precious time. Judge Jacob Robert Wit and justice official Ben (Voc) King were (conveniently) at the VDS home when the authorities arrived for the search. Although the warrant was granted for a FULL search of the building and grounds, Judge Wit changed the order on the spot to limit the search to only JVDS's apartment. A full search was again denied when PVDS was arrested in June 2005.

I remember speculation that Natalee was put in the well on the VDS property, but it was never searched to my knowledge. I remember the monkey in the cage on the property as well. Greta and her staff would go feed the monkey, which looked all but abandoned at the time.

 

[Carrington]

Any chance that this is a ploy -someone close to Joran planting the jaw bone- to get Joran extradited back to Aruba and out of the jail in Peru?

Yes, IMO a very real possibility. It won't fly.

 

[3doglady]

A full search was never done, IIRC. They only searched JVS's 'apartment'.

It was ten days before the Kalpoe residence was searched and another six days before the VDS apartment was searched. This was well after the arrest of the two security guards, which wasted much precious time. Judge Jacob Robert Wit and justice official Ben (Voc) King were (conveniently) at the VDS home when the authorities arrived for the search. Although the warrant was granted for a FULL search of the building and grounds, Judge Wit changed the order on the spot to limit the search to only JVDS's apartment. A full search was again denied when PVDS was arrested in June 2005.

I remember speculation that Natalee was put in the well on the VDS property, but it was never searched to my knowledge. I remember the monkey in the cage on the property as well. Greta and her staff would go feed the monkey, which looked all but abandoned at the time.

I remember that as well, but 2 or 3 years later the yard was searched and some areas were dug up. Sorry I can't remember what new info initiated the search but I remember pictures of the Dutch on site with chunks of cement. This case has had so many ups and downs I can't keep up with everything.

 

[Nova]

Any chance that this is a ploy -someone close to Joran planting the jaw bone- to get Joran extradited back to Aruba and out of the jail in Peru?

I don't understand why anyone would assume Peru will release JVDS to Aruba regardless of what evidence surfaces on the island. In any case I can recall, the jurisdiction holding the defendant gets first crack at trial.

With this exception: in cases where another jurisdiction has stiffer penalties (usually the death penalty), the holding jurisdiction may be willing to cede control in order to secure a harsher penalty. IIRC, this happened in the DC sniper cases where jurisdiction was ceded to Virginia because it has the d.p. and the District of Columbia does not.

If I'm wrong (and keep in mind that international law would prevail here), I hope someone will correct me with contrary examples.

 

[Nova]

I know this mystery has frustrated all of us for a long time, and passions about the principals run strong.

But the image of Anita Van Der Sloot rooting through her private trove of Natalee Holloway's remains to find the mandible with the single tooth to plant on the beach...

Am I the only one who finds this image a tad far-fetched, not to mention ghoulish?

 

[3doglady]

I know this mystery has frustrated all of us for a long time, and passions about the principals run strong.

But the image of Anita Van Der Sloot rooting through her private trove of Natalee Holloway's remains to find the mandible with the single tooth to plant on the beach...

Am I the only one who finds this image a tad far-fetched, not to mention ghoulish?

I always thought that AVDS was kept in the dark about what happened. She was in the Netherlands the night Natalee disappeared. I think she was used to looking the other way.

 

[suzihawk]

I know this mystery has frustrated all of us for a long time, and passions about the principals run strong.

But the image of Anita Van Der Sloot rooting through her private trove of Natalee Holloway's remains to find the mandible with the single tooth to plant on the beach...

Am I the only one who finds this image a tad far-fetched, not to mention ghoulish?

I believe there are several (if not many) people on that happy little island that have known the whereabouts of Natalee's remains for a long time. Any of which that would be quite relieved to have distance placed between themselves and the case. Having her body (or parts thereof) identified while JVS is safely tucked away in Peru would be pretty convenient at this time.

Or, as some others have suggested, it may be an ill concieved plan to attempt to get him back on his own turf.

Ghoulish? Yes. Not so far fetched when you look at the history.

JMO

 

[georger]

I do believe the jawbone will be Natalee's.
I also think it was planted, in an attempt to free Joran from Peru.
(which will never happen IMO).
If it does turn out to belong to Natalee, who would keep such evidence for 5 years?
Blackmail, personal safety from Joran or family love is my guess.

IMO

How would you "plant" the bone and have it "surface" at the appropriate
time? The Bone Fairy must be busy! Any plant must consider the odds of
the article staying on the surface, or just under the surface, not washing
away, etc etc etc. How many (Natalie) jaw bones are there to potentially
squander on a no-discovery plant? If that failed what would you plant next -
a rib? The Bone Fairy must be an expert planter.

 

[georger]

BBM. IMO, it is Mama VDS placed it to be found.

IMO, I believe she has known all along and now that her husband has passed away, which I think she was afraid of (he always appeared to be a wife abuser to me) and she has realized her son is not coming home from prison and perhaps has come to terms he is a psycopathic murderer and never coming home.

With both Joran and his father gone, perhaps she isn't afraid anymore and actually has some empathy for Beth & Dave.

She is a mother and maybe she saw the video of Beth w/ Joran and realized now she is in Beth's shoes (so to speak), but she at least KNOWS where her son is, unlike the Holloway's.

IMO, I have always thought she was buried under the VDS's house.

Again, JMO and still anxious for the results.

Not realistic. The people who found this bone should have left it in
place, taken photos, and notified security. The placement of the bone
was very important (that evidence now lost).

If Natalie was deposited at sea then the bone washed in - period.
The description of the discovery scene is consistent with that.
Planting any evidence on a beach risks it being washed out ....

 

[Carrington]

How would you "plant" the bone and have it "surface" at the appropriate
time? The Bone Fairy must be busy! Any plant must consider the odds of
the article staying on the surface, or just under the surface, not washing
away, etc etc etc. Only the Bone Fairy can do that.

This particular Bone Fairy went out of her way and placed it on the beach.
See first posts.

 

[georger]

This particular Bone Fairy went out of her way and placed it on the beach.
See first posts.

Quote: The jaw was found Friday on the beach at the Phoenix Hotel, not beach at the Phoenix Hotel, not far from the Bubali Plas. This is one of the places that Joran van der Sloot pointed out in a confession, as he would have hidden her body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

why no excavation of the site(s) ?

evidence has appeared ...

What are they waiting for? (the case to go away)?

The lack of an excavation must mean "they" know this is NOT
Natalie's jaw bone?

Who would the Bone Fairy be that is in possesion of Natalie's skull?
How much of Natalie do they have? Or are they holding the skeleton
of some other missing girl or cadavar? How many cadavars in basements
are there on that Island? Do all Aurab authorities and citizens have a cadavar
to play with?

Do you see how nutty this can get?

 

[nomoresorrow]

I know this mystery has frustrated all of us for a long time, and passions about the principals run strong.

But the image of Anita Van Der Sloot rooting through her private trove of Natalee Holloway's remains to find the mandible with the single tooth to plant on the beach...

Am I the only one who finds this image a tad far-fetched, not to mention ghoulish?

(BBM) I was considering the idea... :waitasec: until I read your post.

 

[Carrington]

I can't answer your legitimate questions jwarner, this case has baffled and bewildered me from the beginning.
Aruba has done nothing by the book.....or they rewrote it.

IMO

 

[georger]

I can't answer your legitimate questions jwarner, this case has baffled and bewildered me from the beginning.
Aruba has done nothing by the book.....or they rewrote it.

IMO

attached is a Google map of the area. I see nothing
unusual about the area except for the presence of the bird sanctuary and a pond which I assume never exchanges flow with the beach.

What is the maximum size of an image I can attach here - anyone know?

Quote:
"The leeward side of Aruba is protected from the rougher winds and waves of the Caribbean Sea; visibility at the popular leeward side diving locations is excellent as a result. Visibility typically reaches between thirty to one hundred feet on the leeward side of Aruba. The leeward side is where you find all of the hotels."

(edit) also attached typical storm tracks by Aruba (NOAA TNC)

Thanks, J.

 

[georger]

I can't answer your legitimate questions jwarner, this case has baffled and bewildered me from the beginning.
Aruba has done nothing by the book.....or they rewrote it.

IMO

Here are some higher res maps. The find is in the beach area circled in green on the first map (low res) and somewhere in the beach area with red dots on the 2nd higher res map.

De Telegraaf said that tourists spotted the bone in the sand on Riba Beach which flanks the Divi Aruba Phoenix Restort (to the left and behind).

Note the two (wing dams ?) in this area and the island beyond.

The maps I have made fit well with other maps I have seen posted on the web...

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Coming up on Today EST Natalee segment! right now...

ETA There was really nothing new in the segment on Today. Explanation of how the tooth would be pulverized to retrieve the DNA. There was a written statement by Beth Holloway and this is not verbatim....

There are no good answers, whether the bone is Natalee's or does not belong to Natalee. The worst answer is knowing nothing.

Poor Beth.... this waiting must be awful for her and all Natalee's family and friends.

wm