Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #1

[suzihawk]

attached is a Google map of the area. I see nothing
unusual about the area except for the presence of the bird sanctuary and a pond which I assume never exchanges flow with the beach.

What is the maximum size of an image I can attach here - anyone know?

Quote:
"The leeward side of Aruba is protected from the rougher winds and waves of the Caribbean Sea; visibility at the popular leeward side diving locations is excellent as a result. Visibility typically reaches between thirty to one hundred feet on the leeward side of Aruba. The leeward side is where you find all of the hotels."

(edit) also attached typical storm tracks by Aruba (NOAA TNC)

Thanks, J.

Jean Cesarez said on either Jane Velez Mitchell's show or Nancy Grace (can't remember which) that the pond DOES flow into the ocean. I was surprised to hear that, but that's what she said.

As to there being no excavation or even cordoning off of the area where the jaw was found, it's possible it's because they already know there are no more remains to be found there. Or it could be further indication of the ineptness of the Aruban authorities to perform even the basic police protocol and/or their level of concern.

 

[nola]

The timing of discovery (5 year after NH disappearance and 6 months into Joran's jail experience) as well as not knowing exactly where this bone was found is what leads me to think "planted". Was it in a location that makes "washing up" the only answer, or are there other possibilities? If Joran is extradited from the Peruvian jail to Aruba, my instincts will scream that there's more to this discovery than what it appears. Just my opinion, but it comes after watching this case being mishandled -Joran & co being treated with kit gloves - as if they are above justice by Aruba's LE. People who are in denial that -even after two murders -this person is in deed a monster - will resort to the unthinkable to help him. Just as they (imo) assisted him in hiding NH's body the night of her death.

 

[Meagain]

I guess before I would even 'entertain' a 'plant'.... Which I don't and likely won't....
I want to know the details of that 'real bad storm' that occurred before the bone find.
Unless someone's already done this, I might look into that a bit later if I have time.
Was there some type of tropical storm/hurricane thing going on in the general area? etc.

 

[georger]

I guess before I would even 'entertain' a 'plant'.... Which I don't and likely won't....
I want to know the details of that 'real bad storm' that occurred before the bone find.
Unless someone's already done this, I might look into that a bit later if I have time.
Was there some type of tropical storm/hurricane thing going on in the general area? etc.

I have been reading a lot of boards, especially those where divers
familiar with Aruba currents & weather gather. Almost to a person they
'speculate' this is not a washup scenario, but something else. One comment
at another board claims Altez told Joran about the find and
Joran 'laughed and shook his head "No" '.

Given the politics and bipolar mentality on Aruba (prostitution legal but
toplessness not) what I expect is an "everything in its proper place and
nothing certain" response.

Maybe the Queen of Holland knows something! ? Maybe she will inform the
King of Saturn who will tell Earth?

 

[eachandevery]

I think they know by now whether or not the jawbone belongs to Natalee; if it weren't, they would be shouting it from the rooftops, perhaps telling us all it's just another darn animal bone. I'm not an expert, but come on. I'm so glad that Aruban authorities are most likely dragging their feet on this one, and I'm so glad to know they continue to keep the family in the dark. Gold stars for all.

If this were any other case, I would say certain theories are ridiculous, but when it comes to this one, I don't rule out anything.

I feel like I keep repeating myself, but I'm just so angry.

 

[otto]

I know this mystery has frustrated all of us for a long time, and passions about the principals run strong.

But the image of Anita Van Der Sloot rooting through her private trove of Natalee Holloway's remains to find the mandible with the single tooth to plant on the beach...

Am I the only one who finds this image a tad far-fetched, not to mention ghoulish?

No, you're not the only one to find this far-fetched. In fact, it's outrageously farfeched to think that Anita has Natalee's remains hidden in her house (or car, or tulip patch) and that she placed a bone on a beach. You are also correct in that Peru has clearly stated that Joran will remain in Peru until he has been tried, convicted, and served his sentence. Anita made some efforts to have Joran transferred to a mental hospital in the Netherlands shortly after his arrest, but that obviously was not successful.

 

[Meagain]

No news but... http://foreign.peacefmonline.com/entertainment/201011/107973.php

Dutch officials have had Natalee Holloway's DNA since Tuesday, a source told ABC, adding, "They almost certainly know by now the results.”

"There are mixed signals," the source said. "If it wasn't her I'd think they'd come out and say it wasn't her with all the fanfare."

 

[otto]

Quote: The jaw was found Friday on the beach at the Phoenix Hotel, not beach at the Phoenix Hotel, not far from the Bubali Plas. This is one of the places that Joran van der Sloot pointed out in a confession, as he would have hidden her body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

why no excavation of the site(s) ?

evidence has appeared ...

What are they waiting for? (the case to go away)?

The lack of an excavation must mean "they" know this is NOT
Natalie's jaw bone?

Who would the Bone Fairy be that is in possesion of Natalie's skull?
How much of Natalie do they have? Or are they holding the skeleton
of some other missing girl or cadavar? How many cadavars in basements
are there on that Island? Do all Aurab authorities and citizens have a cadavar
to play with?

Do you see how nutty this can get?

The story that Joran gave Terror Jaap in March 2010 was that he and a friend put Natalee in the water at the Bubali Bird Sanctuary after she fell over the balcony at the friend's house. The timeline for this story was not possible and so it was not given credibility. Joran drew a map showing how far he walked into the water to hide the body. This is the story that is now being compared to the location where the jaw bone was found, but the story Joran gave and the location of the bone don't really match - other than the reference to the Bubali Lake.

 

[otto]

I guess before I would even 'entertain' a 'plant'.... Which I don't and likely won't....
I want to know the details of that 'real bad storm' that occurred before the bone find.
Unless someone's already done this, I might look into that a bit later if I have time.
Was there some type of tropical storm/hurricane thing going on in the general area? etc.

Hurricane Tomas was in the area and caused high surf just before the bone was found.

 

[otto]

No news but... http://foreign.peacefmonline.com/entertainment/201011/107973.php

Dutch officials have had Natalee Holloway's DNA since Tuesday, a source told ABC, adding, "They almost certainly know by now the results.”

"There are mixed signals," the source said. "If it wasn't her I'd think they'd come out and say it wasn't her with all the fanfare."

Speculation that the NFI should have completed their analysis and could be withholding information appears to me to be nothing mor than irresponsible reporting. It seems that because isolated DNA can be analyzed in about 48 hours, reporters are expecting a result in 48 hours, but realisitically, the DNA has be to extracted from the tooth, and that could take much more time. Furthermore, the NFI probably has other work that has deadlines and priority. Another assumption that has been made by reporters is that all NFI work will stop because a bone was received from Aruba, and that bone will be given top priority even though there is no investigative urgency in testing the bone. Responsible reporting should inform, not get everyone riled up, but the reporting about this bone seems to be more about getting the public worked up, speculation, and finger pointing. I'm sure that the family will be notified as soon as the bone is identified as a match, or a non-match. There are no mixed signals. The only information that has been provided is that the NFI will analyze the bone and deliver the results to the Aruban authorities. Until then, all anyone can do is wait.

 

[cluciano63]

Can't it be determined if the jawbone has spent 5+ years in the water, vs. buried on land? That would be one way to determine if it washed up naturally...

 

[Scamperoo]

Whichever scenario one choses to believe they both sound improbable, the jaw washing up on the beach unburied at the feet of a couple of Americans sounds about as plausible as "persons who shan't be named," robbing a corpse of it's jaw and seeding it on the beach.

Things that don't make sense: The area was not isolated and further searched, the people who found the bone picked it up and carried it away from the scene, no pictures of the area where it was found....Where are the interviews with the tourists who found the bone, why was only a part of the bone sent for testing and why do the authorities say they will decide if they are going to make the findings public.

I guess some of this will be cleared up when the tourists are interviewed but I call shenanigans, or, it isn't her.:snooty:

 

[Carrington]

It very well might not be her. But, it's someones daughter.
Wonder if any other young white females are missing on the island?
Not that I know of, did I miss this news?

IMO

 

[twinkiesmom]

I know this mystery has frustrated all of us for a long time, and passions about the principals run strong.

But the image of Anita Van Der Sloot rooting through her private trove of Natalee Holloway's remains to find the mandible with the single tooth to plant on the beach...

Am I the only one who finds this image a tad far-fetched, not to mention ghoulish?

It's no more ghoulish than Anita describing Natalee's panties in great detail to Beth and Greta Van Susteren.

 

[Carrington]

It doesn't have to be AVDS, in person, that delivered the jawbone.
It could be any of her associates or Jorans.
IMO

 

[annalia]

Speculation that the NFI should have completed their analysis and could be withholding information appears to me to be nothing mor than irresponsible reporting. It seems that because isolated DNA can be analyzed in about 48 hours, reporters are expecting a result in 48 hours, but realisitically, the DNA has be to extracted from the tooth, and that could take much more time. Furthermore, the NFI probably has other work that has deadlines and priority. Another assumption that has been made by reporters is that all NFI work will stop because a bone was received from Aruba, and that bone will be given top priority even though there is no investigative urgency in testing the bone. Responsible reporting should inform, not get everyone riled up, but the reporting about this bone seems to be more about getting the public worked up, speculation, and finger pointing. I'm sure that the family will be notified as soon as the bone is identified as a match, or a non-match. There are no mixed signals. The only information that has been provided is that the NFI will analyze the bone and deliver the results to the Aruban authorities. Until then, all anyone can do is wait.

Yes this would qualify as an investigative urgency. If a part of a human body washed on shore or found on the beach then it's also conceivable that other parts of the body could be nearby. Determining if it is Natalee is urgent if there is a chance of finding other evidence. The more time goes on the more any other pieces of evidence could be lost.

Do you know for a fact that the NFI had other dealines and didn't make this a top priority?

Blanken came out and stated it was a female body part and then other reports stated they didn't know if it was human so there were mixed signals. And reports on the timeframe was coming from forensic experts not just reporters.

 

[annalia]

The story that Joran gave Terror Jaap in March 2010 was that he and a friend put Natalee in the water at the Bubali Bird Sanctuary after she fell over the balcony at the friend's house. The timeline for this story was not possible and so it was not given credibility. Joran drew a map showing how far he walked into the water to hide the body. This is the story that is now being compared to the location where the jaw bone was found, but the story Joran gave and the location of the bone don't really match - other than the reference to the Bubali Lake.

What official said that the timeline was not possible and not given any credibility? I don't recall any investigator saying that. I recall Japp's apartment was raided by police not long after and his things confiscated. Dompig also gave an interview afterwards and said that they believe that Joran disposing of Natalee in Bubali was very likely and that Bubali was never searched because it is protected.

 

[annalia]

Jean Cesarez said on either Jane Velez Mitchell's show or Nancy Grace (can't remember which) that the pond DOES flow into the ocean. I was surprised to hear that, but that's what she said.

As to there being no excavation or even cordoning off of the area where the jaw was found, it's possible it's because they already know there are no more remains to be found there. Or it could be further indication of the ineptness of the Aruban authorities to perform even the basic police protocol and/or their level of concern.

I was surprised to hear that the pond flows into the ocean too.

I really wouldn't be surprised by anything that they do. Although according to Jean they do seem to be making this a high priority, hopefully that's true and not just lip service.

Do you remember in the first year or two of the case there was a witness that said she saw four boys with shovels on the beach and then either Dompig or another official announced that they would be searching the area in two weeks? I remember thinking wow wait two weeks and alert everyone including all suspects of your plans.

I think the storms may have played a big part in this but I'm also a firm believer in Divine Intervention. God works in mysterious ways.

 

[~Lisa~]

Jean C. saying that she doesn't see a lot of debris (seaweed, shells)
washed up on the beach.
She said it's a really clean beach.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/11/19/exp.nr.casarez.holloway.cnn?iref=allsearch

 

[FLNY]

I doubt if at any time in history has the verse "oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive" had more significance than when applied to Aruba, Joran and the Van der Sloots!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Surely, at some point, the truth must come out...as least that's my prayer!!