ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 6

[R.U.Kidding!]

LOL, I know what you mean
I don't believe that GG is innocent of some involvement either and i too, hesitate to comment on my thoughts and questions about certain aspects of this.
It would seem that he has committed a perfect crime in as much as there is little evidence of value that we have seen.

As far as I know, these hearings have been closed so I do not know how much public accountability there is.

The system is different than we are used to.
If a judge decides there is enough suspicion of a crime, incarceration is extended while further evidence is gathered.

I can only hope there is much more evidence than we are privy to, however, the longer they go without bring charges, the less faith I have in that.

If I sit back and look at all sides of this.... well, I still don't know what happened :waitasec:

Aruba Judicial System

Aruba's legal system is based on the civil law system, as in use throughout most of the world. The main difference between our system of law and the common law system is the fact that we do not have juries or grand juries. In Aruba, the investigation by the police and prosecutor is checked and balanced by a judge of the Court of First Instance. The investigating judge conducts all interrogations of witnesses during the investigation of the crime. The trial itself is conducted and decided (including sentencing) by another judge, and the final verdict can be appealed. The suspect can appeal decisions made by the judge through the Court of Appeals.


Aruba criminal system is mirrored after the Dutch criminal justice system. It traditionally distinguishes itself from other criminal justice systems including the U.S. on many aspects including the severity of sanctions imposed.


http://www.aruba.com/explorearuba/islandfacts/law.aspx

:razz::gthanks:For the info on Aruba's Juducial System, and for "getting ME":seeya:

 

[Dushi]

We really know so little
I have always believed you can take the bits and pieces and make them fit whatever scenario you believe today

IMO, opinion,listening questioning things is good

If you ask one question, you get so many different opinions, answers, thoughts

 

[LambChop]

Thinking about the towel. There may have been a little blood on it. I would think a forensic expert would be able to tell the difference between someone using a towel to stop their toe from bleeding and one that was used to wipe your hand or splattered.

And how would he get rid of the towel without being suspicious. They were hotel towels and billed to your account if they were not turned in. Most hotels/condos charge $20 each if you lose them. And he couldn't just leave one towel on the beach. He would have had to have gotten rid of both of them. You usually have towels with you if you plan to go into the water. The towels can easily be identified as most of them are marked. I don't see him having time to dispose of them without someone finding them. jmo

 

[Dushi]

Thinking about the towel. There may have been a little blood on it. I would think a forensic expert would be able to tell the difference between someone using a towel to stop their toe from bleeding and one that was used to wipe your hand or splattered.

And how would he get rid of the towel without being suspicious. They were hotel towels and billed to your account if they were not turned in. Most hotels/condos charge $20 each if you lose them. And he couldn't just leave one towel on the beach. He would have had to have gotten rid of both of them. You usually have towels with you if you plan to go into the water. The towels can easily be identified as most of them are marked. I don't see him having time to dispose of them without someone finding them. jmo

JMO

But he could have put it in the trunk of his car which was not searched
I did not hear whether they were hotel towels
Some people bring their own
However, if Robyn packed so light, its doubtful she would bring her own towel, especially if it is also doubtful that she would go snorkelling

And yes, most places do charge for unreturned beach towels and I suppose if he took two out and brought one back, it could have been noticed

Which leads me to believe, it was very little blood and either he did not notice it or he was not concerned, because if it were a lot of blood, I think he would have gotten rid of it
Better to pay for a towel than have LE find one full of blood after your lady has just gone missing under suspicious circumstances

 

[LambChop]

JMO

But he could have put it in the trunk of his car which was not searched
I did not hear whether they were hotel towels
Some people bring their own
However, if Robyn packed so light, its doubtful she would bring her own towel, especially if it is also doubtful that she would go snorkelling

And yes, most places do charge for unreturned beach towels and I suppose if he took two out and brought one back, it could have been noticed

Which leads me to believe, it was very little blood and either he did not notice it or he was not concerned, because if it were a lot of blood, I think he would have gotten rid of it
Better to pay for a towel than have LE find one full of blood after your lady has just gone missing under suspicious circumstances

I believe it was mentioned on one of the media reports with the female reporter who was reporting shortly after she went missing. I'm pretty sure she said "the hotel beach towels." It is possible he did not notice. If RG had gotten a bloody nose she could have wiped it off on the towel when he got out of the car before she went missing and he just was not aware of it until he got back to Baby Beach. By then it was too late. He would have no way of knowing that the police would not search his trunk.

Plus how would he have gotten rid of the towel? He planned to use those towels in his story or why bother bringing them along. Another thing, the reporter thought it was strange because the towels were perfectly laid out on the sand but the dress was at a distance and looked like it was thrown on the rocks. It is windy but this was a favorite dress why wouldn't she just put it in the car. It appears this is the only dress she had with her. Not something a woman would do. The car was right there. If the dress had blown that far the wind would have also disturbed the towels.....and we do know how that is. The wind can easily flip the corners over and it can even roll them up a bit if there on the sand.

I don't think it is one great big discrepancy that stands out but a lot of little ones that add up to "this just does not make sense". We all know very few people get caught red-handed committing a crime but this has hinky written all over it. jmo

 

[concentric]

I don't get the towel
As a poster mentioned (sorry, don't remember who, Neesaki??) we have no idea about the amount of blood.

I keep thinking it must be a small amount because if not, I do not understand why he would leave it behind. he had time to set everything up as nobody knew she was missing until he called the alarm.

--------

I have said before that I wondered if she was hit in the head with a rock. Maybe a rock wrapped inside the towel?

 

[Dushi]

I believe it was mentioned on one of the media reports with the female reporter who was reporting shortly after she went missing. I'm pretty sure she said "the hotel beach towels." It is possible he did not notice. If RG had gotten a bloody nose she could have wiped it off on the towel when he got out of the car before she went missing and he just was not aware of it until he got back to Baby Beach. By then it was too late. He would have no way of knowing that the police would not search his trunk.

Plus how would he have gotten rid of the towel? He planned to use those towels in his story or why bother bringing them along. Another thing, the reporter thought it was strange because the towels were perfectly laid out on the sand but the dress was at a distance and looked like it was thrown on the rocks. It is windy but this was a favorite dress why wouldn't she just put it in the car. It appears this is the only dress she had with her. Not something a woman would do. The car was right there. If the dress had blown that far the wind would have also disturbed the towels.....and we do know how that is. The wind can easily flip the corners over and it can even roll them up a bit if there on the sand.

I don't think it is one great big discrepancy that stands out but a lot of little ones that add up to "this just does not make sense". We all know very few people get caught red-handed committing a crime but this has hinky written all over it. jmo

Yes, I agree, a lot of little things that could mean a number of things
The favorite dress? Well I feel it would have been much lighter than the towels

But... If you think she was thrown over a cliff, why would she have not been wearing the dress?
Did he convince her to take it off? Give it to him?
So many things don't make sense. I think we all agree on that
Perhaps she had a bloody nose, that is all assumption
Perhaps she cut her foot, thats his story

I have never read where the towels came from
But, if she had a nose bleed, don't know why you would assume that, I think he would have noticed?
Oh well, who knows
And really, why would he think the police would search his car? there was nothing that pointed to a crime at that time, only a missing woman who may have drowned
I want to try to stick to what I know, which is very little at this point
There could be any number of scenarios which have nothing to back them up
Imaginations tend to run wild when there are no answers to all of the questions
And rumor gets mixed in with fact and it seems to become fact
We can all speculate, its what we do

A very sad mystery which I hope will be solved soon

 

[Dushi]

--------

I have said before that I wondered if she was hit in the head with a rock. Maybe a rock wrapped inside the towel?

Anything and everything is possible
She may have actually cut her foot on a rock!
Who knows

 

[Dushi]

I do not believe that Gary Giordano is an innocent man
That is based on what i am reading and on my opinion only

But I am open minded enough to realize that everything we know could be used to show an accidental drowning or involvement by both parties

There are many arguments for and against all scenarios

One of the very few determining factors as to his guilt or innocence is Gary Giordanos past, his history with the law and with women

Obviously something that was not of great concern to Robyn Gardner, or she would not have dated and travelled with him

Go figure

 

[LambChop]

I think presently all we can do is speculate because we are not sure that the stories of witnesses are even true. I said bloody nose because it was reported he was punching her while they were in the car. I don't think she cut her toe. I don't think she ever took her shoes off to walk in the water. It's hard enough walking through those rocks with sneakers on so her taking off her shoes to get to the water, I don't see her doing that. If she had been drinking a lot that day, I see her navigating that rocky area even less without falling down and really getting hurt.

There isn't enough information coming out of Aruba to keep this thread open if we were only discussing facts. But the fact that the dogs checked out the pet cemetary tells me the couple who said they saw them could be true or why would they have checked out that area around the time the story broke.

I have to laugh when JB claims GG has told his story 16 times and it's never changed. Does he not realize that not everyone is KC who could not tell the same story twice if her life depended on it. jmo

 

[Dushi]

Police searched the area not because witnesses reported that they saw Gardner abused there, as The National Enquirer is reporting this week, but because “it is an area that one could get rid of a body,” Stein said Friday.
The National Enquirer’s Oct. 10 story quoted an anonymous source who said that two witnesses told police they saw Gardner fighting with her travel companion, Gary Giordano of Gaithersburg, and then saw him bury her alive in a dog grave.

Other media have now republished the information, citing the Enquirer.

But Stein said police did not hear this from any witnesses

http://www.gazette.net/article/2011...in-in-jail-past-thanksgiving&template=gazette



Oct3 or 4 was the NE story about the witnesses seeing her being brutalized
The dog grave story came out Oct 26

BBM

 

[Dushi]

The shoes she was wearing, if they are the ones in the pictures, would be impossible to wear walking the beach IMO

 

[Dushi]

As far as JB goes, he seems to play a very unimportant part in all of this
Both other Aruban lawyers are reporting the same thing.. that GG has not changed his story

Whether or not he has changed his story doesn't mean much to me
Its probably easier for most people to stick to one story
Last report i read about his interrogations said he wasn't talking at all
I believe(and I can't find the source) that it was reported that he said he would answer new questions, but refused to answer any questions that he had already addressed

 

[Harlow]

two witnesses told police they saw Gardner fighting with her travel companion, Gary Giordano of Gaithersburg, and then saw him bury her alive in a dog grave.

So if these alleged witnesses saw GG assaulting and then "burying her alive", why did they not intervene? :waitasec: Very strange story indeed.

 

[Blueskies]

Giordano has the best lawyer in Aruba,Jose Baez,Lopez and a full team working for him..What does Robyn Gardner have? A corrupt justice system that put's tourism above all?

<mod snip>

 

[Blueskies]

Police searched the area not because witnesses reported that they saw Gardner abused there, as The National Enquirer is reporting this week, but because “it is an area that one could get rid of a body,” Stein said Friday.
The National Enquirer’s Oct. 10 story quoted an anonymous source who said that two witnesses told police they saw Gardner fighting with her travel companion, Gary Giordano of Gaithersburg, and then saw him bury her alive in a dog grave.

Other media have now republished the information, citing the Enquirer.

But Stein said police did not hear this from any witnesses

http://www.gazette.net/article/2011...in-in-jail-past-thanksgiving&template=gazette



Oct3 or 4 was the NE story about the witnesses seeing her being brutalized
The dog grave story came out Oct 26

BBM

You probably have already posted but the story about him threatening to kill her at the Marriott on CCTV footage is also 100% not true. The National Enquirer is putting out complete lies

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...disappearance/2011/09/07/gIQA1l7j9J_blog.html


Posted at 01:31 PM ET, 09/07/2011
Gary Giordano held in Robyn Gardner’s disappearance
By Dan Morse
Three appeals court judges in Aruba have just ruled that a Gaithersburg man must remain in custody, rejecting a request from a lawyer for Gary Giordano that he be released, prosecutors said early Wednesday afternoon.

Giordano, 50, has been detained on the island resort since Aug. 5. His traveling companion, Robyn Gardner, 35, went missing three days earlier. Giordano told police she drowned while the two were snorkeling, but Aruban authorities have questioned his story. Gardner remains missing, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Ann Angela, a spokeswoman for the Aruban public prosecutors office, said authorities are still trying to piece together what Giordano and Gardner were doing in the days before her disappearance, and how they were getting along. She said police have reviewed surveillance video from the hotel where they stayed, and examined images of Giordano and Gardner, but didn’t see anything unusual.

“We have the video and we don’t see anything,” Angela said.

 

[Dushi]

Giordano has the best lawyer in Aruba,Jose Baez,Lopez and a full team working for him..What does Robyn Gardner have? A corrupt justice system that put's tourism above all?

JMO but I don't understand why RF is referring to it as a corrupt justice system
Gary G is in Kia. Where would Richard like him to be?
That comment makes no sense to me at all

 

[Blueskies]

JMO but I don't understand why RF is referring to it as a corrupt justice system
Gary G is in Kia. Where would Richard like him to be?
That comment makes no sense to me at all

He didn't say that I did. Gary is in the KIA until the end of November and unless they have hard evidence and can bring this to trial he is going to walk. He may not immediately go free because there was a grand jury indigment and also the investigation by the FBI..But thing's are not looking good and Robyn needs your support and she needs to be brought home.

 

[Dushi]

He didn't say that I did.

Thank you for clarifying that
May I ask why you feel it is a corrupt system?
Do you believe Gary Giordano is not guilty of some crime?

 

[Dushi]

He didn't say that I did. Gary is in the KIA until the end of November and unless they have hard evidence and can bring this to trial he is going to walk. He may not immediately go free because there was a grand jury indigment and also the investigation by the FBI..But thing's are not looking good and Robyn needs your support and she needs to be brought home.

I agree, this needs to be solved and bring peace to all involved

However, if there is no evidence that will stand up in a court of law what can be done.
As you have said "unless they have hard evidence"
At this point, I do not know what they may have
And I firmly believe LE is doing everything they can to bring closure to this


How would they benefit from another unsolved mystery?