ATLANTIC CITY SK: possible link to LISK and GB4?

[Justiceforever]

:rocker: I'm there---just silent so far observing/collecting mental data

Me too. I'm still reading through the threads. See you there soon. Sorry TF OT my fault.

 

[CriminalMinds]

I'm sorry Peter. I just realized that I didn't fully answer your questions. When a native speaker of AAVE tries to mimic a caucasian speaker of American English, they either sound exaggeratedly flat or exaggeratedly nasal (or a combo of both). The calm state has nothing to do with mimicing an accent.

(assuming calm was just because that is exactly what he was, a calm controlled talker) then:

calm helps to be sure to enunciate how they are intending to sound(i.e. helping the mimic be convincing if they are trying to imitate)?

 

[Theforeigner]

Me too. I'm still reading through the threads. See you there soon. Sorry TF OT my fault.

Sorry about what Justiceforever?

 

[CriminalMinds]

Peter

I belive that you have misunderstod all along what people mean when they state that they belive there is a similarity between the victims.
As I understand it, when people here on WS say that, they are refering to the comparation I have made between the GB4 and the AC4 victims.

I have compared the GB4 and the AC4 victims facial looks, due to that I belive the killer is responsible for both clusters of victims, and indeed found that they IMO are striking lookalikes.

Here is the image where I have added red arrows between the victims, in pairs, that IMO, AND many others, are lookaliks.

I belive that the killer, after the AC4 murders, was trolling internet adds for prostitues that was lookalikes of his lates cluser of victims, the AC4 victims.

it has always been my contention, and IMHO, that each girl arrowed to her partner has similar/near identical "triangle" features--that is to say, each girl to her "facial mirror" has similar/near identical eye shape and spacing;nose shape and length, lip structure, and chin structure

 

[marie-chantal]

Are they in order? What I mean is, with the AC killings, was Tracy killed first, then Molly, then Barbara, then Kim? With the Gilgo victims, does the order go: Melissa, Megan, Maureen, Amber?

 

[Theforeigner]

Are they in order? What I mean is, with the AC killings, was Tracy killed first, then Molly, then Barbara, then Kim? With the Gilgo victims, does the order go: Melissa, Megan, Maureen, Amber?

Good question, and I did check it out when I realized that Kim Raffo and Amber Costell, who are lookalikes, was the last murder victim in each cluster.

But the rest of the victims, no.

AC: 1. Molly 2. Barbara 3. Tracey 4. Kim
GB4: 1. Maureen 2. Melissa 3. Megan 4. Amber

 

[Theforeigner]

Here is another GB4/AC4 facial lookalike comparing, with different pictures of most of the girls.
I have used som pictures, of some of the victims, when they were younger and the picture of GB4 victim Maureen BB I used a picture of her as a child.
I did this beacuse I wanted pictures with the same kind of facial expression, like a smile with open mouth, and I could not find any of MBB and MB as adults/ or at the age of death, so therefor pictures when younger or as a child.

I did this second comparing to show that it is not just a coincident in the first comparing I posted.

I also repost a comparing of Kim Raffo / Amber Costello mugshots.

 

[Justiceforever]

Sorry about what Justiceforever?

I thought I had gotten off track a little talking about the Jennings murder. It's so easy to do without even realizing. :blushing:

 

[Theforeigner]

I thought I had gotten off track a little talking about the Jennings murder. It's so easy to do without even realizing. :blushing:

Don't worry, I don´t think it was off track due to you included the Jennings case due to that you belived that HA might have posted comments to that case and HA is indeed part of this thread IMO.

By the way I belive those comments of his was about the AC episode. Other comments in that thread was also about other cases than the Jenning case.

 

[Justiceforever]

Here is another GB4/AC4 facial lookalike comparing, with different pictures of most of the girls.
I have used som pictures, of some of the victims, when they were younger and the picture of GB4 victim Maureen BB I used a picture of her as a child.
I did this beacuse I wanted pictures with the same kind of facial expression, like a smile with open mouth, and I could not find any of MBB and MB as adults/ or at the age of death, so therefor pictures when younger or as a child.

I did this second comparing to show that it is not just a coincident in the first comparing I posted.

I also repost a comparing of Kim Raffo / Amber Costello mugshots.

It's unreal how much they favor each other!

 

[CriminalMinds]

Good question, and I did check it out when I realized that Kim Raffo and Amber Costell, ****who are lookalikes, was the last murder victim in each cluster*****.

/QUOTE]



that is the TELLING part, IMVHO, if it is true a/c and gb4 are linked--there is your link -- twocents: ) some say coincidence---i tend not to believe in those

 

[marie-chantal]

Good question, and I did check it out when I realized that Kim Raffo and Amber Costell, who are lookalikes, was the last murder victim in each cluster.

But the rest of the victims, no.

AC: 1. Molly 2. Barbara 3. Tracey 4. Kim
GB4: 1. Maureen 2. Melissa 3. Megan 4. Amber

That would have been even creepier if they were killed in the order listed.

But I definitely see the match between the victims. There are so many similarities that it's hard to ignore.

 

[Theforeigner]

He was leading the calls, he kept an eye on time, he set his psychological anchors with precision ... he couldn't have done it, if he would have been drunk.
And the "white drunk dude" always made me think how would someone distinguish race in a phone call. Only by speech patterns, right?

So as I understand it; You belive that the caller, who called MB's little sister Amanda and MB's mother, was a black man pretending to be white.

Well I doubt that very much due to that Amandas father is black.
And I presume that Amanda and Melissa has same mother, so MB's mother then also, as well as Amanda, would be able to recognize wheter it was a black man or a white man..

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-...-6/index3.html

"The voice was self-assured. “Is this Melissa’s little sister?” he asked. “I hear you’re a half-breed.” Amanda’s father is black. Whoever was calling knew what Amanda looked like."


Maybe Marie-Chantal would be so kind to give her opinion on this?

 

[Justiceforever]

I think the word "half-breed" as opposed to "mixed" is telling. The only time I have heard the word half-breed used (in reference to a person rather than an animal) is by racist white folks. The word breed implys controlled mating as is done with animals. This is the mentality of a racist for sure. IMO
White or Black? I don't know for sure but, I haver NEVER heard a black person refer to a mixed person as a half-breed. Probably because the word is derogatory. Unless this hypothetical black man grew up in a racist (overtly or covertly) white family then my guess (for what it's worth) would be that LISK is a white man with racist veiws. IMO

 

[NoviceSleuth]

it has always been my contention, and IMHO, that each girl arrowed to her partner has similar/near identical "triangle" features--that is to say, each girl to her "facial mirror" has similar/near identical eye shape and spacing;nose shape and length, lip structure, and chin structure

Also add to the above that they were all approximately the same age, same body/build and were petite in height. They also seemed to have similar hair lengths. MOO

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter

I belive that you have misunderstod all along what people mean when they state that they belive there is a similarity between the victims.
As I understand it, when people here on WS say that, they are refering to the comparation I have made between the GB4 and the AC4 victims.

I have compared the GB4 and the AC4 victims facial looks, due to that I belive the killer is responsible for both clusters of victims, and indeed found that they IMO are striking lookalikes.

Here is the image where I have added red arrows between the victims, in pairs, that IMO, AND many others, are lookaliks.

I belive that the killer, after the AC4 murders, was trolling internet adds for prostitues that was lookalikes of his lates cluser of victims, the AC4 victims.

Well, then lets have a look at it ...

Pair 1: Kim Raffo & Amber Lynn Costello
different apparent age (and in appearance, Raffo looks even older than she was), different face shapes, different eye shape and color. The only thing a little similar is the hair color, except that ALC has those blond lines (what are they called in English?) colored in.

Pair 2: Barbara Breidor & Maureen Brainard-Barnes
That's an entirely different face shape. Maureen's cheekbones are low, Barbara's high, hair color different, eyes different in shape and color. Hair color different, age group entirely different also in appearance.

Pair 3: Molly Jean Dilts & Megan Waterman
Well, the hair color is as different as it can be, but at least those two have about the same face shape up till the cheek bones. Except that the upper part, forehead and therefore the eye brow line is entirely different.

Pair 4: Tracy Roberts & Melissa Barthelmy
Different hair color, but at least both in the blond range. Entirely different face shapes, caused by entirely different width and position of the cheek bones, Melissa has a much higher eye brow line also.

So, honestly, four pairs and in eahc and everyone different face shapes, different eye colors and shapes, in at least two of the pairs visible big age differences ... where are the striking similarities? Maybe you should have added that those similarities only exist in your opinion? Because I can't see them. But you are presenting your opinion as fact here? Even against measurable differences. Because the face symmetry is on those pairs also different.

 

[marie-chantal]

I think the word "half-breed" as opposed to "mixed" is telling. The only time I have heard the word half-breed used (in reference to a person rather than an animal) is by racist white folks. The word breed implys controlled mating as is done with animals. This is the mentality of a racist for sure. IMO
White or Black? I don't know for sure but, I haver NEVER heard a black person refer to a mixed person as a half-breed. Probably because the word is derogatory. Unless this hypothetical black man grew up in a racist (overtly or covertly) white family then my guess (for what it's worth) would be that LISK is a white man with racist veiws. IMO

IMO, that term also tends to imply that the speaker is of a certain generation. Americans in their twenties typically don't use that phrase. It was used widely until the 80s.

He might also be a Cher fan. She had a song called "Half Breed" that was widely played in the 70s.

 

[marie-chantal]

So as I understand it; You belive that the caller, who called MB's little sister Amanda and MB's mother, was a black man pretending to be white.

Well I doubt that very much due to that Amandas father is black.
And I presume that Amanda and Melissa has same mother, so MB's mother then also, as well as Amanda, would be able to recognize wheter it was a black man or a white man..

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-...-6/index3.html



"The voice was self-assured. “Is this Melissa’s little sister?” he asked. “I hear you’re a half-breed.” Amanda’s father is black. Whoever was calling knew what Amanda looked like."

Maybe Marie-Chantal would be so kind to give her opinion on this?

Based on the words that he used and two people reporting that he sounded white, I think he's white. I think that if he had been an African-American trying to sound white, he wouldn't have stated that he heard she was a "half-breed". I think he would have said something entirely different, or he would have left race out of it. If he was trying to play white, I honestly think he would have used the n word or some other slur. Think about it...if you were going to stereotype a white guy, and you wanted the caller to believe that you killed someone, you'd throw out the most vile language that could be used by a white person.

 

[Peter Brendt]

So as I understand it; You belive that the caller, who called MB's little sister Amanda and MB's mother, was a black man pretending to be white.

Well I doubt that very much due to that Amandas father is black.

And you know, the killer knew that? Because unless you have secret information, we don't have, this is just an assumption and you shall not draw conclusions from it without marking it as your opinion. Well, you shouldn't in my opinion.
Because the killer could have this knowledge only from the victim or gained it by stalking. Unless of course, your next theory will involve telepathy.

And I presume that Amanda and Melissa has same mother, so MB's mother then also, as well as Amanda, would be able to recognize wheter it was a black man or a white man..

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-...-6/index3.html

Well,, as Marie-Chantal said: Someone not growing up too long in that subcultural influence may not have that accent that strong or has the skill to suppress it. But then, you are free to believe what you want as long as you add, it's your opinion. What you try here is to present your beliefs as facts, which borders to, how did you call it earlier? Regular misinformation, right?

"The voice was self-assured. “Is this Melissa’s little sister?” he asked. “I hear you’re a half-breed.” Amanda’s father is black. Whoever was calling knew what Amanda looked like."

So? I try to make clear since two years, that, in my opinion, we deal here with a stalker, who gathers information about his victims and their environment. So ... shall I be grateful the message reached you finally?

Maybe Marie-Chantal would be so kind to give her opinion on this?

As I said before, and before you can bury it again, Foreigner:
The voice is not the only reason for my opinion, that this offender is more likely an African-American male than the rubber stamp Caucasian basement-dweller. There is victimology (and putting pictures together till they aboutish fit and even then not really is no real argument, in my opinion. And the permanent return to the lifestyle subject indicates to me (therefore in my opinion) also a certain kind of sermon heard regularly.
The kind, the GB4 dump site was made up (a drive-by re-visitable trophy yard) indicates, in my opinion, also, that the single victim didn't mean a thing to that killer, the meaning was in the collection as such. It's like a hunter. The single head on the wall has not much meaning, however, all together, they show his success, his power, his domination. Well, in my opinion. So, if you try to dismiss my theory, try at least to work through ALL the arguments and mark your opinion as your opinion please, because someone believes, we all here consider comparisons of blondes with high cheek bones and brunettes with low ones as "striking similar".

 

[Peter Brendt]

I think the word "half-breed" as opposed to "mixed" is telling. The only time I have heard the word half-breed used (in reference to a person rather than an animal) is by racist white folks. The word breed implys controlled mating as is done with animals. This is the mentality of a racist for sure. IMO
White or Black? I don't know for sure but, I haver NEVER heard a black person refer to a mixed person as a half-breed. Probably because the word is derogatory. Unless this hypothetical black man grew up in a racist (overtly or covertly) white family then my guess (for what it's worth) would be that LISK is a white man with racist veiws. IMO

Come to the midwest for example. African-Americans call mixed kids with one part African-American and the other part anything else (Hispanic, Caucasian, Asian) all the time "half-breeds". They also call African-Americans working together with Caucasians "Uncle Toms" and, that was stroke me the weirdest when I came to this are years ago, they use the n-word all the time on each other.
And about the question black or white racist? Well, white racists normally would kill black girls (well or boys, for example in Atlanta). It's what racist motivated killers do, they kill victims with "the other" skin color. Well, in my opinion, of course.

A little trivia about the same subject. Lemuel Smith tried to kill another inmate and when asked why, he told the warden, because the other guy was a half-breed (according to the warden back then). I heard that story second hand, so I can't be entirely sure whether it's true. Interesting case, you should occasionally look it up.