August 26th 2016 Motions Filed

[BigCityAccountant]

Yeah, I tend to agree... and I am very skeptical wrt Radant's testimony. Which is why I raised the "deer camp" bit some time ago. If you look at the larger map that I posted, it appears there's a burm between the camp and Avery property. Which, depending upon how high it is, could arguably obscure the so-called "fire" that Radant claimed he saw.

Now, if you read further down in the aforementioned thread, you'll see that they apparently confiscated several burn barrels from that camp, as well. To my mind, and in light of what I perceive to be a grossly sloppy investigation, I think a reasonable challenge could be made regarding the origination of the barrels containing Ms. Halbach's personal effects.

That said, I am still leaning to the Avery did it side of the fence. Why? Simply due to the forensic acrobatics required to frame him. And this is even after reading this recent (road-map) motion. I think the motion proposes way too many players, which in turn, and imvnsho, weakens the defense's case, as opposed to strengthening it.

Well, nice to see you again Shadow!!! :welcomeback:

You did mention this and it was bothering you. I think I took the discussion to that ice shack that has always bothered me.

Do you think that the burn barrels were switched from JR camp to SA's? That could be a real possibility since we know one was taken and then returned. Since fires in burn barrels need oxygen to burn, many people use a gun to make the wholes in the sides and bottom of the barrel. I suspect you could compare the pictures of both to determine if the holes are in the same place on the barrels. Add to that the R's were upstanding members of the community. Last but not least, the R's filed a lawsuit (2006) against Manitowoc for awarding a contract to another company for a Manitowoc County construction project. (I'll try to find the article to post later) In the article JR is threatened by Manitowoc to drop the suit or else. Well, low and behold shortly thereafter (2006), the EPA shows up at JR's door. The EPA settled the case with a $120k fine against the R's, which I believe ultimately ended bankrupting the company in 2014.

Why is that significant?? It appears MC likes to get their way at all costs, IYNWIM. There is a pattern here of I'll take you down.

In the first picture Missy posted, I believe you can see JR's camp thru the tree with no leaves because of the angle of the picture. HOWEVER, those evergreens would block someone from seeing that burn barrel from the JR camp.

 

[missy1974]

Yeah, I tend to agree... and I am very skeptical wrt Radant's testimony. Which is why I raised the "deer camp" bit some time ago. If you look at the larger map that I posted, it appears there's a burm between the camp and Avery property. Which, depending upon how high it is, could arguably obscure the so-called "fire" that Radant claimed he saw.

Now, if you read further down in the aforementioned thread, you'll see that they apparently confiscated several burn barrels from that camp, as well. To my mind, and in light of what I perceive to be a grossly sloppy investigation, I think a reasonable challenge could be made regarding the origination of the barrels containing Ms. Halbach's personal effects.

That said, I am still leaning to the Avery did it side of the fence. Why? Simply due to the forensic acrobatics required to frame him. And this is even after reading this recent (road-map) motion. I think the motion proposes way too many players, which in turn, and imvnsho, weakens the defense's case, as opposed to strengthening it.

Hi shadowraiths! :wave: Nice to see you back

I had always thought it was unlikely that he could see a fire, but not impossible. BUT, I also thought he was describing the fire in the firepit, not a barrel.

So if I put on my SA is guilty hat for a moment, if SA was burning her electronics in the barrel that they were reportedly found in, at 4:30 on the 31st, I believe it's near impossible for him to have been able to see that from the quarry. Not only was there a berm, but the trailer blocked the view of the barrel as well.

I went back to the old thread, and opened up the MCSO investigative report. Jost (who found the first bone) also heard about JR seeing a fire, but why be suspicious of the burn pit if it was in a barrel? I see now why JR didn't testify lol

Page 15 http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf


Earlier, when I had been in the command post area, I remembered someone mentioning that JOSHUA RADANDT had checked on his
hunting trailers on Monday evening. He saw there was a large fire burning near STEVEN AVERYS property. The fire was
described as being "larger than usual.,'

l,Sgt.Jost,started to piece all of this information together. I felt this area,if not alreacly looked at,should be checked for any type of
evidence. When Officer Mignon returned, I spoke with her about my feelings of the burn pile. She stated she also felt that something
was unusual with that area.

Page 79 of CASO http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf

RADANDT stated on Monday,10/31/05 at
approximately 4:30 p.m., he drove up to his deer camp off of Kuss Road through his gravel pit
and observed a fire in the proximity of STEVEN AVERY's residence or on the AVERY
property.

Officer Steier didn't quite get the statement right, he missed the "contained to a 55 gal drum" (like JR's written statement says)

As for the barrels at the deer camp vs barrels at the Avery property.... those barrels are near impossible to track. At least one went to the lab, back to Avery's and then back to the lab, it's brutal, and IMO that goes beyond incompetence.

 

[missy1974]

I am back to thinking that there was no fire in that firepit that night. I have had my doubts, but I'm back to thinking, nope, no way. JMO

JR said he saw a fire contained to a barrel.
Jost using his super investigative skills determines that the pit should be looked at after hearing that their was an usually large fire near Avery's (someone forgot to tell him JR said it was in a barrel)
3 days after JR makes the statement, the pit is checked, and bones are *reported* to be found. (No pictures of bones in the pit)
As time goes on, people start to magically recall seeing a fire?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

We can add those burn barrels to the fishy things found too. There are 2 holes in the rim of the burn barrel found in the front of SA's yard. Now, giving the benefit of the doubt...I guess LE's arm could be blocking the holes in the 2nd picture I posted, but I'm doubting it. Oh, and in the 2nd picture there are 5 burns barrels visible. How many were there supposed to be again?

 

[missy1974]

In the cartoon photo, it looks like 4 behind Janda's, 1 by SA's driveway.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I don't know...here is another photo. There looks to be at least 1, possibly 2 holes in the rim.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Sorry, I couldn't edit my post above. Here are the corrections...The lawsuit the R's filed was in 2005, not 2006 as I stated above.

Here is the link...

http://dailyreporter.com/2006/02/14/contractor-sues-manitowoc-over-award/

“Handlos said that, if Radandt followed through with the legal action … it could be devastating to all Radandt companies, and Handlos told Josh Radandt to have Radandt’s attorneys withdraw the legal claim,” the complaint said.

....and that my friends was no lie...Radandt filed b/k in 2014.

https://www.oig.dot.gov/library-item/31385

Excerpt from the 2nd link...This investigation, one of the largest DOT fraud cases in Wisconsin, was conducted jointly with the FBI and Department of Justice, with assistance from FHWA and the Wisconsin DOT.

DOJ should just rent office space in MC with the amount of time they spend there...

 

[krkrjx]

(I posted this over in the Zellner Tweets thread but it does not belong there so I am moving it here.)


Who knows if or in what vein the comments like "ewww" and "creeped out" may have been used by TH in reference to SA or anyone else?

I often say someone "gives me the willies" which means they have said or done something that made me a bit nervous but not to the point where I fear them. I mean, I wouldn't invite them into my home, but I would still be neighborly and not go out of my way to avoid them out in the community, etc. If I am repulsed by someone, it is a different story. I would do everything in my power to avoid contact with them. I would not go to their home or even on their property. I would cross the street or even walk around the block--far out of my way--to avoid them.

I believe that TH may have thought SA odd, maybe he gave her "the willies" but I don't think he repulsed her or scared her. If that had been the case, she would have declined that job. She would have gone nowhere near that salvage yard, not even to meet with another member of his family. I wouldn't have, and I do not scare easily.

I do not think SA had anything sinister on his mind when he asked for TH to take the photos. I think it was just that she had been there before taking photos and he liked her...maybe she did good work, or maybe she was pleasant and easy-going in his presence on previous occasions while hoping to finish her work asap and make her way out of there. I have behaved that way at times if it was fitting and I can't believe everyone has not had to at one time or another.

There are all kinds of personalities in the world and some may give us the willies, others make us say ewww, and of course some raise undeniable red flags. I don't think SA had raised red flags for TH. If he had, she would never have gone back. She would have asked that the job be given to someone else. IMO.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

oh waittttttttttt ... I wonder if they mean "Dropped"?

and uhmmm remember when Ryan said the cell coverage out there was not very good? :scared:

Here you go! I'm more awake this afternoon.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...do-the-initials-quot-CTH-quot-mean-on-my-bill

 

[missy1974]

THANKS BCA!!!!!

So, D = Delivered Call... what the heck does that mean?

Doing a quick google it's hard to find information, but I'm guessing at the moment that it is considered a "delivered call" because although it was blocked, it went through (delivered). And now that I'm thinking about it, I remember an option on our home phone years ago that would block all blocked calls or any unknown name/number calls, the problem was, back then, most cell phones didn't come up on the caller ID too, so it would block cell phones, it was easy to activate.

On another issue with RH's phone records.... one of the numbers that RH called right around those Unknown calls, was a phone card. Call the phone card... put in your number/pin, then dial the number you want to call. It was also used another day, the 3rd I believe. Interesting.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I going to post this, but if it is inappropriate Mods please delete the post. (No harm intended) The information is readily available in the Motion, so I don't see why it couldn't be posted..it's just in a different format.

 

[ElleElle]

All I can is wow. The call history of RH does not look good on him to me.

I am also on another MaM Netflix binge watch with fiance. opcorn:

 

[Wendy101]

holes shot in the barrels are to feed the fire it contains... we use them here as well.. some people just weld a hole thru as well.. so those holes mean nothing to me...

 

[BigCityAccountant]

holes shot in the barrels are to feed the fire it contains... we use them here as well.. some people just weld a hole thru as well.. so those holes mean nothing to me...

That is correct Wendy. I think the point we were discussing is whether or not the barrel could have been swapped out for a different barrel. That would make the holes relevant as I don't believe 2 barrels would have the holes in the exact same location.

 

[missy1974]

Oh and lets not forget there were 3 trailers at the Deer Camp, but when it was sold almost a year to the date of TH going missing, it was sold with only 2 trailers. Oh, and the fact that Radandt filed B/K in 2014. Did Radandt dislike the Averys and want to buy Avery land like Jaddie suggested, so very long ago??

1st picture Radandt Camp 2005
2nd picture Radandt Camp 2016

I can't take credit for this thought because I read it on reddit lol But what if Zellner has tracked down the missing red trailer? She easily could have done some testing if she did. Is there any way of finding out where the trailer went? And looking at this now that Zellner has pointed a finger sure doesn't look good lol And there is the report of a dog tracking to that cul-de-sac too.

 

[Karinna]

All I can is wow. The call history of RH does not look good on him to me.

I am also on another MaM Netflix binge watch with fiance. opcorn:

Agreed. And makes me wonder about what was deleted?

 

[Karinna]

holes shot in the barrels are to feed the fire it contains... we use them here as well.. some people just weld a hole thru as well.. so those holes mean nothing to me...

They might be bullet holes???

 

[dexter75]

I am back to thinking that there was no fire in that firepit that night. I have had my doubts, but I'm back to thinking, nope, no way. JMO

JR said he saw a fire contained to a barrel.
Jost using his super investigative skills determines that the pit should be looked at after hearing that their was an usually large fire near Avery's (someone forgot to tell him JR said it was in a barrel)
3 days after JR makes the statement, the pit is checked, and bones are *reported* to be found. (No pictures of bones in the pit)
As time goes on, people start to magically recall seeing a fire?

My thoughts all along

After a LOT of reading, and even more discussion ( didn't you & I discuss this before, Missy? Branden & the Halloween thing, ST finally being somewhat " convinced " that perhaps, ok, maybe there was a fire that day.. )

I do not believe there ever was a fire on the day in question.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

They might be bullet holes???

LOL. Karinna...in a burn barrel, the fire needs oxygen to "breath" otherwise it would just go out. Every fire needs oxygen to keep it going. As I mentioned early and Wendy confirmed, some people shoot holes in the barrel to allow the oxygen in. Wendy also mentioned that some people weld a hole in it. Knowing there were gun shot holes in the burn barrel isn't all that significant as mentioned it is common, most people do it for the reason stated above. Shadowraths proposed the idea the it is POSSIBLE the burn barrels may have been swapped out for the ones on JR's camp. I said, if that happened~~you could tell by the bullet holes in the pictures. That's all~~no smoking gun.

 

[Karinna]

LOL. Karinna...in a burn barrel, the fire needs oxygen to "breath" otherwise it would just go out. Every fire needs oxygen to keep it going. As I mentioned early and Wendy confirmed, some people shoot holes in the barrel to allow the oxygen in. Wendy also mentioned that some people weld a hole in it. Knowing there were gun shot holes in the burn barrel isn't all that significant as mentioned it is common, most people do it for the reason stated above. Shadowraths proposed the idea the it is POSSIBLE the burn barrels may have been swapped out for the ones on JR's camp. I said, if that happened~~you could tell by the bullet holes in the pictures. That's all~~no smoking gun.

Hi BigCityAccountant, i guess i should of been clearer on what i was saying, LOL. I wasn't thinking there was anything sinister about the holes in the burn barrel, just instead of weld holes someone could of just shot a couple of holes in it to do exactly what you say, or for shooting practice/accuracy?
We have had 44 gallon metal drums around where i live in people's backyards as an incinerator to burn rubbish in and keep it all contained, but don't seem to remember about having to place holes in them because they are an open drum and the rubbish burns pretty good in them when the flames get going good.