AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #3

[Bohemian]

Key points that I've noted from yesterday's media conference with Detective Des Bray. This is straight from the horse's mouth and not printed in MSM so I think it's safe to say that it is accurate and factual.

https://www.facebook.com/sapolicenews/videos/948059551938054/

• It can be confirmed that Karlie and Khandalyce were killed in mid to late December 2008 and the last confirmed reported sighting was in Charnwood in Canberra.

• Karlie and Khandalyce were killed at different times and at different locations.

• A significant development in the investigation has been that people who are believed to be the offenders and others have taken over Karlie's identity, her telephone, her bank accounts, her Centrelink and family payments.

• In relation to Karlie's mobile phone, those involved in her murder retained her phone and it was used until mid 2011. It is believed that the phone was kept and used to provide some proof of life and to mislead family, friends and law enforcement by suggesting that Karlie was still alive because of activity on her phone.

• From time to time the message bank of Karlie's phone was accessed. Offenders sent some replies to those text messages confirming that Karlie was alive and well and elsewhere. Some of those SMS messages were sent to family members to again suggest that Karlie was still alive.

• On a couple of occasions maybe more, a female falsely represented herself to be Karlie in communication with either family or friends. Some of these communications induced someone in Karlie's family to forward some money and that money was later withdrawn by offenders in this matter.

• Karlie's phone was used to help those involved in this crime to perpetuate other frauds and obtain money.

• Karlie's bank account was accessed in at least four different states, NT, SA, NSW and ACT. Centrelink and family allowance payments and other money was taken from Karlie's account. There is still a lot of material to go through and records to obtain.

• A large amount of money also went into Karlie's account. That was from wages of a person, fraud and other unknown sources. All up it is believed that over $90,000 was transacted through Karlie's account.

• On 24 June 2010 a female in a wheelchair accompanied by a male person attended the Australian Central Credit Union in Elizabeth to update banking records and engage in conversations with the bank. Those people were in possession of identity documents and were able to convince the bank that in fact the female that was present was Karlie.

• Karlie's bank card was also used several times at the Royal Adelaide Hospital in 2010 and was last used in March 2012 in Charnwood in Canberra.

• There is a significant focus on the financial investigation in Charnwood, Canberra and also in South Australia.

• Karlie's bank account was finally closed in 2015 after a lengthy period of inactivity.

• In relation to the Centrelink and family benefit payments, on 15 December 2010 a female attended Centrelink at Salisbury and falsely represented that she was in fact Karlie and produced identity documents for herself and Khandalyce. It's yet to be determined if this female is the same as the one in the wheelchair.

• The last payments through Centrelink were in 2011.

• In respect to what is known about the suspects involved in the financial aspects of the bank account transactions, Centrelink fraud and use of the phone, at least one offender is a male, there may have been more and at least two are females and those suspects either resided at or associated with or were listed in connection with properties at Devlin Park, Hillbank, Holden Hill and Charnwood in Canberra.

• Most of the bank transactions in South Australia were in the northern and north eastern suburbs except for those that were done en route between Alice Springs and the eastern states.

• It needs to be determined if those involved in the frauds were involved in the murders. It's clear that some of those people involved in the frauds knew without doubt that Karlie and Khandalyce were dead and continued with their role. The focus of the financial investigation is to determine the role of those people who were involved in those frauds and to see whether they were involved before the deaths, during the deaths or after the deaths.

• Anyone who was involved in any way, or assists anybody involved in this terrible crime, or impedes the investigation or withholds information deliberately to help the offenders, faces a very lengthy term in prison.

Thanks so much for your post containing the sequence of events and the background surrounding them. I really appreciate it.

 

[Puggle]

WOW wow and wow...... think everyone is going to be truly disgusted when they find out who's involved.... there obviously is a young 20 ish girl involved to pull off this impersonation ..... Wicked!!!

I'd be looking at anyone who has Family ties to Alice Springs - or work related reasons to travel there.

Possibly having some close connection to or near Port Augusta - from the few transaction we have been shown - this is the one area, not repeated... why?...to distance themselves specifically from that area??

Associates Mmmm they live in Charnwood.. or some sort of business operation based there/employment.. transport company..
Just some thoughts...

 

[Anonamouse]

I just had a thought what if the person who took over karlies identity knew the centerlink system and was trying to get centerlink to change the payments from sole parent to disability . ( because as soon as Khandalyce was due to go to school there would be requirements to look for a job or study ) Hence the trips to the hospital and going to centerlink in a wheelchair . To try and get on a disability pension which asks less questions once your on it .

 

[KG1]

Is it possible that if photo id were required...to explain why you dont really look like your photo id...you could say you have been very ill? What better way to 'look very ill' than to be in a wheelchair?? Just a thought.

Possible, but I think the wheelchair may be a genuine requirement for that person, due to medical attendences. May be no more than a broken leg, foot, hip. I don't think these people have the intelligence to fake the wheelchair scenario. My thoughts again.

 

[Bohemian]

WOW wow and wow...... think everyone is going to be truly disgusted when they find out who's involved.

I'm already disgusted, puggs, and that's saying something. Heinous crime; absolutely heinous and to obtain advantages by deception after Karlie and Khandalyce had been murdered? I have no words.

 

[Panda]

Just wanted to add my thanks to Makara too. This is such a fast moving case and so many posts, I've had to turn off notifications on my phone or it would beep all night (I'm in the UK)! Don't think I'm the only UK follower of this thread either. I'm genuinely amazed at the speed at which this case seems to be moving now, kudos to Australian LE I think they're doing a sterling job right now. Some excellent sleuthing going on too imo.

Yes, I thought about that after I did my post - it's very easy to criticise the police, but when you think about the complexities and the amount of work involved in a case such as this, I think they are doing a fantastic job. The amount of organisation that must be required makes my head spin. And of course all the brilliant ideas from the sleuthers on here. :cheers:

 

[Korrigan]

I would think scamming someone's mother would be VERY VERY risky unless you really knew the woman and what she'd be apt to believe/not believe.......whoever is behind this had to know Karlie and her mother very well, IMO.

I've been thinking about this contact between mother and 'daughter'. Actual conversations could have been very terse, short and angry, and rare, if they were estranged. So impersonation more a matter of brief conversation, a few short words "yeah, we're fine, okay? Broke but fine. Khandles needs..." Then mostly texts between them, and I hate to say it, photos of Khandalyce in pretty clothes to make her grandmother believe all was well...

 

[silverau]

A new day and the clock is ticking down to arrests. If they haven't been arrested yet this morning.

:jail:

 

[plongi]

I would day the detectives know who these people are but they are trying to catch the "Gang" as they say by delaying arrests etc.
Releasing some info will drag the net tighter as more people come forward with peripheral info.

Having wages paid into that account will be the biggest clue to the identity of one of them.
On a single mothers pension maybe you can earn a certain amount and not loose benefits.
Also if caught out by ATO etc then you just abandon the identity.

Not a lot of money for the for two lives .. So sad that there are people who can be like this. And these are just the ones who have been caught out.
How afraid would a two year old be in the company of such filth. Makes me cry.

 

[they'll get you]

A man was with the woman in the wheelchair so was she being scammed as well. Was he there making sure wheelchair woman did what she was supposed to do? Was she a pensioner in a vulnerable position doing what they told her....were they her carers?
:thinking:

 

[Preye]

I've been thinking about this contact between mother and 'daughter'. Actual conversations could have been very terse, short and angry, and rare, if they were estranged. So impersonation more a matter of brief conversation, a few short words "yeah, we're fine, okay? Broke but fine. Khandles needs..." Then mostly texts between them, and I hate to say it, photos of Khandalyce in pretty clothes to make her grandmother believe all was well...

I'm finding the story hard to believe; that a stranger impersonated Karlie on the phone numerous times. Yet mum is not around to set the record straight unfortunately. To me it's "unfathomable". The one person a mother would recognise is her daughters voice IMO. Maybe there's some lying going on here at some point.

 

[inkpink]

A partner/associate of one of the others involved could have set up the ABN under KP Exploration Drilling, and worked under that ABN as a contractor (Sole trader), and then received payment via an invoice rendered to the principal (payer), who then deposited the payment for work into Karlie's bank account. Payer may only have been given the BSB and a/c number, not necessarily the name. If the name was required to be given, then the payee had to be female, as Karlie is not a male name. If ABN holder male, then could have said that payment was to go into 'wife's' or 'partner's' account. My thoughts only.

Karlie's account was last used in 2011 and I suspect this was because the Centrelink payments stopped or they knew they were about to be stopped.

I think that is why the KP business name was set up so that someone could continue to use a bank account that wasn't in there name. Although Karlie's ID would of had to be used to open a bank account, the bank account name would be in the business name not a person's.

 

[they'll get you]

How do we really know Karlie and her mum was estranged?
Was it the scammers pretending to be Karlie who told the mum she didn't want to speak to her. Maybe I've missed something.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm finding the story hard to believe; that a stranger impersonated Karlie on the phone numerous times. Yet mum is not around to set the record straight unfortunately. To me it's "unfathomable". The one person a mother would recognise is her daughters voice IMO. Maybe there's some lying going on here at some point.

I wondered that too, if it was just texts, but when pressured by other people if mum hadn't said 'oh I heard her voice, I spoke to her' or something, because it's hard to imagine a mother not knowing her own child's voice.

 

[inkpink]

When you are on a Centrelink payment your bank account isn't routinely checked. For that to happen a search warrant would have to be issued. However Centrelink can request a copy of your bank statement and if you don't produce it then they could cut you off until you do. I'm not sure how many months of statements they would require but I suspect 3.

I think it is only a risk to receive reportable additional funds into your account without declaring them unless you are on Centrelink's radar (someone could "dob" you in).

Maybe they were asked to produce a statement in a review and rather than do that they just cut their losses, stopped using Karlie's account and came up with the cunning plan of opening a new account so they could continue to receive employment wages or whatever else and still receive Centrelink payments into there own account without worrying about the risk!

 

[Korrigan]

How do we really know Karlie and her mum was estranged?
Was it the scammers pretending to be Karlie who told the mum she didn't want to speak to her. Maybe I've missed something.

"Ms Pearce-Stevenson’s mother, Colleen Povey, died in 2012. It is understood her family believed Ms Pearce-Stevenson was still alive but estranged." http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...e-pearce-murders/story-e6frg6n6-1227579117725

"People involved in the murder of Karlie Pearce-Stevenson texted her family from her mobile phone to reassure them she was OK years after she and her toddler daughter Khandalyce disappeared, police have said." http://www.theguardian.com/australi...earce-stevenson-phone-sent-family-years-after

 

[PainExpress]

WOW wow and wow...... think everyone is going to be truly disgusted when they find out who's involved.... there obviously is a young 20 ish girl involved to pull off this impersonation ..... Wicked!!!

I'd be looking at anyone who has Family ties to Alice Springs - or work related reasons to travel there.

Possibly having some close connection to or near Port Augusta - from the few transaction we have been shown - this is the one area, not repeated... why?...to distance themselves specifically from that area??

Associates Mmmm they live in Charnwood.. or some sort of business operation based there/employment.. transport company..
Just some thoughts...

Agree. I haven't done the sleuthing that you may have but this feels like its gonna shock further.

The way the deaths have been described sound brutal. There's passion and meaning behind that.

For at least 3 people to be involved they need to be like minded and have ties strong enough that would be willing to cover a murder.

 

[silverau]

How do we really know Karlie and her mum was estranged?
Was it the scammers pretending to be Karlie who told the mum she didn't want to speak to her. Maybe I've missed something.

I can't remember if the police have actually said so - someone here would surely be able to help - but it has been reported by people that knew Karlie that there had been trouble between the two of them from around 2005 - I suppose having a bub at 18 wouldn't of helped either. But - this is what was reported by those people and not officially from Karlie's family. What we do know from Karlie's family is that they had been trying to get her to contact her sick (possibly dying) mum in at least 2011.

Which leads me to another question. Do we know what year/when the fraudster's got money from Karlie's mum?

 

[reasypeasy]

With regard to payments rates for single parents, I was a single parent during those years and received just shy of 1200 per fortnight. This consisted of SPP, FTB and rent assistance. No deductions for earnings or child support, so this really was the maximum that was available. So if we are looking at 37 months, that's around 89000. I think it's plausible that the majority of the funds came from the Centrelink fraud.

This whole thing is just horrific. The idea that money (and let's face it, not a lot of money), could have been the motivation for these murders is just horrible. And their poor family. Her mother died thinking she didn't want to see her. I just don't understand people. I hope the investigations maintains momentum and these people are caught very swiftly. I'm not generally in support of incarceration for a variety of reasons, but these people need to be held to account, and prevented from harming anyone else.

The money may not seem much to people on decent wages, but to someone living on the single no-kids rate of any government support payment, it would be the difference between having to watch every penny and never do anything ambitious... and having the sort of options people on a decent wage do. Not excusing them of course it is a dreadful crime, but often it seems like Australia has forgotten how much of a hard grind life is for people who for whatever reason can't find work and haven't been able to for long enough that work seems an impossibility. $30,000 per annum clean and clear without reduction of government payments means as much comparative change in lifestyle to a poor person as embezzling ten million does to a person on good wages. It is a game changing amount of money, and game changing amounts of money are much more tempting than amounts of money that are just enough to buy a few luxuries.

 

[reasypeasy]

I just had a thought what if the person who took over karlies identity knew the centerlink system and was trying to get centerlink to change the payments from sole parent to disability . ( because as soon as Khandalyce was due to go to school there would be requirements to look for a job or study ) Hence the trips to the hospital and going to centerlink in a wheelchair . To try and get on a disability pension which asks less questions once your on it .

They probably wouldn't try that if they knew the centrelink system well enough. Disability support pension is very difficult to get onto.