AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, Wynarka, Bones of a Child Discovered, July'15 - #7

[Korrigan]

It takes a lot longer if the skull is all smashed up... I think now they 3d scan all the bits and then try to assemble it on computer. Could be very difficult with a small badly damaged skull. Add to that the fact that little kids tend to all look similar (snub noses, undeveloped features) until they can get all the face bones where they are supposed to be there's very little point even trying.

Watched 'History Cold Case' yesterday, British TV show. They did indeed have a smashed up skull, and some of the skull missing. They were able assemble the skull to a point, they then used computer imaging to map in the missing parts. From this they then were able to do a facial reconstruction. So, yes, it looks as if it can be done. However if it hasn't been done, perhaps there are just too many missing parts (wince). Or for some reason the results have not been satisfactory enough to release. Or else the image is too good and the police know something and they do not want to spook suspects.

 

[Cagney&Lacey]

Going back to Mrs Dee's report of possibly giving several similar clothing items to neighbour who had since moved on, did the police come back to you on that? Are the current whereabouts of your old neighbours known? I believe you mentioned they had a young girl at the time. Do you (Mrs Dee) believe there may be a link or has it been ruled out?

 

[Freddo Frog]

Here is a very long-term unsolved murder. Very sad and one I've never heard about.

“The person who sent the child might have thought the father lived in Darwin; maybe he was a tourist, there are so many variables.”
Still haunted by the case, Mr Marchant holds onto hope that the mystery may one day be solved.
“Someone out there is carrying one hell of a burden,” he said.
“Some people can’t handle that and when they’re getting closer to the end of their life on this earth, some feel they need to cough up what they know about something.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/murdered-children-who-nobody-knows/story-fnq2o7dd-1227535293070

BBM - This bolded part reminds me very much of what we've theorised here, that the dumping of Angel's body could be an act of closure for someone involved in her death or who is covering up for another person.

 

[crabstick]

So, if your a tourist there is no stop checks that you have murdered a child?
Passport is check on the way in?
I know they check Aust passports on way out with children.

 

[symbah]

Here is a very long-term unsolved murder. Very sad and one I've never heard about.

“The person who sent the child might have thought the father lived in Darwin; maybe he was a tourist, there are so many variables.”
Still haunted by the case, Mr Marchant holds onto hope that the mystery may one day be solved.
“Someone out there is carrying one hell of a burden,” he said.
“Some people can’t handle that and when they’re getting closer to the end of their life on this earth, some feel they need to cough up what they know about something.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...who-nobody-knows/story-fnq2o7dd-1227535293070

BBM - This bolded part reminds me very much of what we've theorised here, that the dumping of Angel's body could be an act of closure for someone involved in her death or who is covering up for another person.

Yeah, on reading the part you bolded on this very sad, unsolved case that I'd never even heard of, prompted me to think that maybe the perpetrator or a witness of sorts to Angel's death was facing looking at the end of their own life & desperately felt the need to offload. Perhaps they were just getting on in years, maybe facing a terminal illness or even suffered from suicidal tendencies, who knows, but maybe the burden of the secret they held was just just way too much.

But, wow, to actually go through the process of removing Angel's remains from where she finally lay & bundle her up into a suitcase with clothes, a quilt & god knows what, then offload that suitcase & her precious remains to a place within public reach is so out there!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Here is a very long-term unsolved murder. Very sad and one I've never heard about.

“The person who sent the child might have thought the father lived in Darwin; maybe he was a tourist, there are so many variables.”
Still haunted by the case, Mr Marchant holds onto hope that the mystery may one day be solved.
“Someone out there is carrying one hell of a burden,” he said.
“Some people can’t handle that and when they’re getting closer to the end of their life on this earth, some feel they need to cough up what they know about something.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/murdered-children-who-nobody-knows/story-fnq2o7dd-1227535293070

BBM - This bolded part reminds me very much of what we've theorised here, that the dumping of Angel's body could be an act of closure for someone involved in her death or who is covering up for another person.

bbm red
I would think of witnesses (and if only rumours) not perpetrators who maybe would come up with their knowledge, when they get old.

 

[symbah]

bbm red
I would think of witnesses (and if only rumours) not perpetrators who maybe would come up with their knowledge, when they get old.

Agree, this scenario seems like perhaps more a witnesses's burden if to do with old age

 

[Eloise]

Its not recorded unless a school starts asking for paperwork? Education is compulsory.

Education is compulsory, but it doesn't have to happen in a school. And while in Australia you are supposed to register with your state's relevant body if you home educate, many people don't. There are thousands of unregistered homeschoolers.

https://www.homeschoolingdownunder.com/homeschooling-australia/homeschooling-statistics/

 

[MsDee]

Going back to Mrs Dee's report of possibly giving several similar clothing items to neighbour who had since moved on, did the police come back to you on that? Are the current whereabouts of your old neighbours known? I believe you mentioned they had a young girl at the time. Do you (Mrs Dee) believe there may be a link or has it been ruled out?

Have not heard anything. Link or ruled out? Well, anything is possible, and I could certainly envisage those neighbours in this sort of situation. They were fairly nomadic. Still hoping it isn't anything to do with them, because those little girls, especially the 2 yr old, were absolutely gorgeous. All she wanted was hugs and attention, and she was just the sweetest child. She would come up to me and stand there looking up with her arms outstretched, and as soon as I picked her up (she was light as a feather) she would wrap you up in a big hug. I do want her and her sisters to be OK.

When I see kids like that, belonging to scum like they did, it makes me wish adoption was more widespread and there was less money being doled out to families for kids. I'm sure all people like that don't necessarily have the kids for cash, but there is certainly no disincentive to give them up so they can have a better life.

* disclaimer - I was adopted at birth, and if I wasn't I am really not sure where or how I would have ended up. I'm so glad I was.

 

[JaneSA]

I don't know where this information is coming from, but in principle there are many things about a victim and family members that can be discerned from a DNA profile, and different possibilities regarding scenarios ruled in and out. This has been mentioned in previous threads with citations given.

What 'we' the public know is certainly not very much in this case, but SAPOL with the assistance of the geneticists will have managed to deduce a lot more.

I was talking about identifying her.
Sure, they can use the DNA to find a racial profile, but in a multiculturally diverse country like Australia, even if we knew (for example) that she had Scottish, Irish, Greek, Lebanese and Italian heritage, how does that bring anyone any closer to identifying her?

 

[Edinlass]

Still no news

Hope there is a breakthrough sooner rather than later...

 

[Rayemonde]

When I see kids like that, belonging to scum like they did, it makes me wish adoption was more widespread and there was less money being doled out to families for kids. I'm sure all people like that don't necessarily have the kids for cash, but there is certainly no disincentive to give them up so they can have a better life.

* disclaimer - I was adopted at birth, and if I wasn't I am really not sure where or how I would have ended up. I'm so glad I was.

Ditto! I was adopted at 4 months and it was the best thing that could have happened for me. It was a wonderful, selfless thing for my birth mother to give me up so I could have the good, stable upbringing that she was unable to give me!
I think that often social services are too keen to keep biological families together at any cost, and they give people who neglect or abuse their kids too many chances. MOO.

 

[MsDee]

I was talking about identifying her.
Sure, they can use the DNA to find a racial profile, but in a multiculturally diverse country like Australia, even if we knew (for example) that she had Scottish, Irish, Greek, Lebanese and Italian heritage, how does that bring anyone any closer to identifying her?

The thing is, no piece of evidence or clue ever works on its own. Instead, results like this can be used to just chip away a bit more..it can certainly rule out some lines of enquiry.

For example, let's just say that the police were actually looking to my ex neighbours, and maybe a lot of others similar to that they have been made aware of too.

If the DNA showed for example, that the child is of a non-anglo origin, then that would rule them out. I think they can do better than just identifying a heritage with the type of DNA profiling they would be using. What they uncover may not matter, but then again, it may. At least, it will knock out some lines, so that means more resources will be diverted to other areas.

An investigation like this is just chipping away. The more bits and pieces, the closer they will get.

 

[crabstick]

Any suspicious deaths in GAPA? He has cancer? He put the body out for a ceremonial burial? He knows police will find it hard to trace DNA?

The girl became too old. Started running and he killed her? There is a mother in captivity, immigrant, illegal visa, financial captive?

 

[Eloise]

Ditto! I was adopted at 4 months and it was the best thing that could have happened for me. It was a wonderful, selfless thing for my birth mother to give me up so I could have the good, stable upbringing that she was unable to give me!
I think that often social services are too keen to keep biological families together at any cost, and they give people who neglect or abuse their kids too many chances. MOO.

I agree with this. There is a very strong emphasis on keeping kids with their biological families. This is because of the history of children being forcibly adopted. However I think there is a happy medium. The physical health and safety of the child must come first. Worry about any psychological impacts that may or may not happen when they happen - in my opinion, better to have some attachment issues you can sort out with some therapy in adulthood but actually reach adulthood, than be beaten, abused or murdered by your bio family.

/soapbox

 

[AtaraMalka]

I was talking about identifying her.
Sure, they can use the DNA to find a racial profile, but in a multiculturally diverse country like Australia, even if we knew (for example) that she had Scottish, Irish, Greek, Lebanese and Italian heritage, how does that bring anyone any closer to identifying her?

As far as I understand, genetic info is not going to tell us specifically if a person is Scottish, Irish, or even Greek with the different halpotype there - it's not a narrow enough science yet. But I could be mistaken.

But an individual's DNA profile, even a partial one, will give us concrete information about the person's parents. That could be crucial, from an investigative point of view, in pursuing certain leads or theories and not others, and applies strongly in this particular case, where the parents' whereabouts are as much a part of the mystery as anything else.

I agree that that's not the same thing as securing a conviction - but it would be a very good start.

 

[AtaraMalka]

I should have been more specific about why parental DNA is important here.

It would give police more to work with in cross-referencing. They can look at criminal databases, for example, to match with the parents. The search is not then restricted to looking for unaccounted-for children.

The DNA profile of the child also tells us about the consanguinity of the parents, i.e. are the parents closely related? Duplicate information at different parts of the child's DNA tells us this, as would genetic disorders in the child.

Certain things about the grandparents could also be conjectured.

All these types of info could be very helpful here, bearing in mind who and what we have been discussing.

There are many more uses of a DNA profile - these just spring to mind in the context of our discussions on the possibilities involved in this particular case.

 

[SapphireSteel]

As far as I understand, genetic info is not going to tell us specifically if a person is Scottish, Irish, or even Greek with the different halpotype there - it's not a narrow enough science yet. But I could be mistaken.
But an individual's DNA profile, even a partial one, will give us concrete information about the person's parents. That could be crucial, from an investigative point of view, in pursuing certain leads or theories and not others, and applies strongly in this particular case, where the parents' whereabouts are as much a part of the mystery as anything else.

I agree that that's not the same thing as securing a conviction - but it would be a very good start.

You are.

Genetic science has come far enough that they can create a face merely by DNA.

What you are likely to look like...be Caucasian, say, have a big nose and closely spaced eyes because its in your genetic map.

Its in its infancy so restricted to research at the moment but it IS available.

In Baby Wynarkas case they have a skull. They could very well be reconstructing her face as we speak, the old fashioned way, with an artist and clay.

However I used to work with SAPOL and believe the resounding silence in the local press speaks volumes.

They have an ID imo, and a suspect.

This is a very small part of the world down here - SA especially so - Adelaide itself is famous for being the Worlds Biggest Village. You literally cant go anywhere without bumping into someone who knows someone you know - 1 degree of separation instead of 3 or 4 like more populated places. A stranger literally will be gawped at. Suitcase guy.

Its how they caught Ivan Milat, btw. People KNEW him, called up police and told them. Tip after tip all naming the same guy.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Education is compulsory, but it doesn't have to happen in a school. And while in Australia you are supposed to register with your state's relevant body if you home educate, many people don't. There are thousands of unregistered homeschoolers.

https://www.homeschoolingdownunder.com/homeschooling-australia/homeschooling-statistics/

Ahh but there's also the Baby Bonus, the Family Payment, the Family Tax Benefit and Housing Benefits, let alone Medicare.

Many people may prefer to home school but precious few go without claiming thousands of dollars for just giving birth.

Those babies are recorded with Centrelink, you can be sure of that!

 

[Rayemonde]

You are.

Genetic science has come far enough that they can create a face merely by DNA.

What you are likely to look like...be Caucasian, say, have a big nose and closely spaced eyes because its in your genetic map.

Its in its infancy so restricted to research at the moment but it IS available.

In Baby Wynarkas case they have a skull. They could very well be reconstructing her face as we speak, the old fashioned way, with an artist and clay.

However I used to work with SAPOL and believe the resounding silence in the local press speaks volumes.

They have an ID imo, and a suspect.

This is a very small part of the world down here - SA especially so - Adelaide itself is famous for being the Worlds Biggest Village. You literally cant go anywhere without bumping into someone who knows someone you know - 1 degree of separation instead of 3 or 4 like more populated places. A stranger literally will be gawped at. Suitcase guy.

Its how they caught Ivan Milat, btw. People KNEW him, called up police and told them. Tip after tip all naming the same guy.

:goodpost:
I hope you're right and LE have a good idea who this little girl was