Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[katydid23]

If she had bought them in a market, it would be strange that no one else bought any and also became sick. JMO

 

[otto]

I cannot for the life of me see any possible advantage to killing them all.
She had nothing to gain.
She is independently wealthy.

Divorce/separation, where she felt unsupported by his family? Separate meals for her children, poison for her husband's family. Wasn't her husband supposed to be there?

I'm thinking intentional poisoning and murder. It's too unusual to be an accident.

"Erin Patterson, 48, served lunch for her mother- and father-in-law and two of their relatives at her home in Victoria on July 29. Her two children were also present, but they were given a different meal and they, as well as Patterson, did not get sick, police said.

Patterson’s husband, whom she is separated from but is said to have an amicable relationship with, was not present, Homicide Squad Detective Inspector Dean Thomas said at a press conference Monday"

Australian Woman Probed In In-Laws' Death After Possible Toxic Mushroom Meal

Three people died, including Erin Patterson's mother- and father-in-law, after possibly eating death cap mushrooms. A fourth person was in critical condition, police said.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Neet_Mc]

I cannot for the life of me see any possible advantage to killing them all.
She had nothing to gain.
She is independently wealthy.

While financial gain is probably one of the most common reasons for committing a murder (and who’s to say there aren’t other financial things going on that haven’t been considered here), it isn’t the only motive. Relationships and family dynamics can be toxic.
Speaking personally, I absolutely can’t stand my ex or a number of members of his family. And while it sounds completely wrong, there are definitely more than a few fibres of my being that would get a certain amount of satisfaction hearing that any of them, but particularly him, were either diagnosed with a terminally illness or dead.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I agree. We need to consider that what happened is not exactly what EP was trying to achieve. It may have been an attempted murder suicide, which at the last minute she backed out of by eating less. Also her younger age and higher body mass may have provided a degree of protection.

I hadn't considered murder suicide but that is a good point.

 

[JLZ]

Sorry JLZ, I’ve been doing a lot of non-mushroomy things this week and have missed some of the discussions.

So where does one find a while variety of death cap? Are they located in Victoria or Australia in general?

TIA

It was a UK video. I don't know.

 

[NeverPersonal]

Ex-husband of woman who cooked lethal mushrooms nearly died last year

Erin Patterson, 48, invited her former in-laws, Gail and Don Patterson, Gail's sister and her husband, Heather and Ian Wilkinson, for lunch at her Leongatha home, in Victoria's Gippsland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So, between the different articles y'all have listed, and this one, as well as this youtube video, i learned a lot.

1. her in-laws didn't think she was good enough for their son
2. i think her parents deaths should be re-examined - she inherited their money as well as the expensive house she lives in
3. her husband was indeed supposed to be there, cancelled last minute
4. her husband fell ill around erin and she "nursed him back to health" - he almost died the year before.
5. the story changed from the kids being at the movies to the kids being present for the meal, or vice versa
6. extremely suspicious she drove not even to the nearest landfill but one further away to throw away the kitchen appliance
7. didnt she claim she used woolworth mushrooms as well as a "packet of asian mushrooms purchased at an asian market" (she conveniently doesnt recall the location)

 

[Oona]

I am leaning towards the cook being guilty.

I think she originally planned to kill her ex and his family. I know people say she had no motive--but I think that is something we might not understand, unless we had gone through a divorce.

There is an often a lot of anger, resentment and toxic energy brewing during a divorce. Especially with children involved. Maybe she wanted to be rid of her ex and his family and to start a new life with the kids, with no interference?

Then her ex cancelled and for some odd reason she went ahead with it?

That part puzzles me. But I don't see any other credible explanations for those poisonous mushrooms being in the meals that she cooked.

She fed the mushrooms to her ex-in-laws , but not to her kids or herself? I think that makes it less likely that she was 'set up' by someone. JMO

I can imagine a scenario where EP‘s children are wanting to live with their father and she wants to punish SP by showing him how it feels to have your family taken away. It’s pretty extreme but motivations for murder are rarely based on rational thinking.
Just pure speculation.

 

[Charlot123]

The thought came to me that maybe he has moved on...

I would agree. Logically, if they are divorced, or planning to, people move on with their lives. SP is orphaned and lost his aunt, hence, is in a very difficult moment of his life.

Regarding the ring, though, the meaning would be hard to interpret IMHO. Whether people wear it or not might depend on when it was made and whether they lost/gained weight. Some rings won’t fit. In modern world, for certain people a wedding ring is a huge symbol, for others, not at all. On what hand married/divorced people wear a ring, depends on the country/culture.

I would assume, the ring could well be the dad’s, especially if this was the most he’s gotten from the coroner so far.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Ex-husband of woman who cooked lethal mushrooms nearly died last year

Erin Patterson, 48, invited her former in-laws, Gail and Don Patterson, Gail's sister and her husband, Heather and Ian Wilkinson, for lunch at her Leongatha home, in Victoria's Gippsland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So, between the different articles y'all have listed, and this one, as well as this youtube video, i learned a lot.

1. her in-laws didn't think she was good enough for their son
2. i think her parents deaths should be re-examined - she inherited their money as well as the expensive house she lives in
3. her husband was indeed supposed to be there, cancelled last minute
4. her husband fell ill around erin and she "nursed him back to health" - he almost died the year before.
5. the story changed from the kids being at the movies to the kids being present for the meal, or vice versa
6. extremely suspicious she drove not even to the nearest landfill but one further away to throw away the kitchen appliance
7. didnt she claim she used woolworth mushrooms as well as a "packet of asian mushrooms purchased at an asian market" (she conveniently doesnt recall the location)

Just an idea, say she's innocent -but- three people who had recently eaten in her home have died and one is in a life and death situation. As soon as you found out, you'd feel too scared to be in your own home.

If you were assured by medics that these deaths were caused by some kind of ingested toxin as opposed to an environmental hazard (like gas leak or such), you'd be unsure where and when the poisoning happened but you'd surely include your own home and the meal you'd all eaten as being possible.

Surely, firstly, in a state of terror and anxiety you'd maybe consult with experts, or try to, and carefully clean out the entire contents of your kitchen. Everything... everything you'd touched in preparation of that meal and everything used on the day, all the leftover food, all the crockery the cutlery, the pots and pans, the dehydrator.

You'd be going out of your mind. You'd be worried the tap water is poisoned or that someone has maliciously targeted your home. You'd be too scared to touch anything or eat or drink anything. Of course you'd immediately send your kids to a place of safety and then probably refuse to enter back into the property. Surely?

Me personally, I'd have isolated the kitchen contents off somewhere so that forensics could test them if need be. Maybe she thought there wouldn't be any forensics? And that everyone would just say 'my gosh this is awful how people can die so easily from poisoning' and that she's lost half her nearest and dearest and nobody cares to even try to find out if she's at risk herself. That would feel very vulnerable.

Why would LE and health and safety not say 'we cannot allow you near that house until we've established the cause of death of these people' and tape the home up?

 

[JLZ]

Ex-husband of woman who cooked lethal mushrooms nearly died last year

Erin Patterson, 48, invited her former in-laws, Gail and Don Patterson, Gail's sister and her husband, Heather and Ian Wilkinson, for lunch at her Leongatha home, in Victoria's Gippsland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So, between the different articles y'all have listed, and this one, as well as this youtube video, i learned a lot.

1. her in-laws didn't think she was good enough for their son
2. i think her parents deaths should be re-examined - she inherited their money as well as the expensive house she lives in
3. her husband was indeed supposed to be there, cancelled last minute
4. her husband fell ill around erin and she "nursed him back to health" - he almost died the year before.
5. the story changed from the kids being at the movies to the kids being present for the meal, or vice versa
6. extremely suspicious she drove not even to the nearest landfill but one further away to throw away the kitchen appliance
7. didnt she claim she used woolworth mushrooms as well as a "packet of asian mushrooms purchased at an asian market" (she conveniently doesnt recall the location)

1. Can you cite a reliable source for that?
2. She did inherit from her parents. Many people do. All Australian houses are expensive. Hers looks to be a nice-enough house in a moderately cheap district. The parents are reported as having died of cancer.
3. "Last minute" is disputed.
4. Unclear where Erin was when her husband fell ill--they were separated. Unclear how much if any nursing she did if they were indeed living apart.
5. Fair comment.
6. The video you link says the opposite.
7. Yes, except I don't think she ever said it was a market.

 

[Charlot123]

I don't disagree with you. I can't understand it either. People do get sick to different degrees sometimes, but if she ate that particular poison-strength beef wellington - enough to kill 3 people and make another critically ill - she 'should' have been critically ill too.

imo

I also note that she wasn't treated with all of the drugs they administer for Death Cap poisoning.
They also use activated charcoal, penicillin, and if they have enough supply they use milk thistle. Link
.

From what I have read about amanita phalloides poisoning, there are three phases

“The clinical course of amatoxin poisoning is described in three phases: delayed gastroenteritis with significant body fluid volume loss (after a postingestion latency of 6–24 hours), symptomatic recovery (24–36 hours after ingestion), and fulminant hepatic and multiorgan failure”

Amanita phalloides Mushroom Poisonings — Northern California ...

Amanita phalloides, colloquially known as the “death cap,” belongs to the Phalloideae section of the Amanita family of mushrooms and is responsible for most deaths following ingestion of ...

www.cdc.gov

So assuming EP survived the first state and entered the “symptomatic recovery one”; it still did not imply that she was cured. Could be calm before the storm. Usually, in such cases of suspected poisoning, the doctors would keep a patient for observation. So, either EP discharged AMA (citing leaving young kids alone at home, for example), or, her initial symptoms looked nothing like gastroenteritis caused by amatoxin, and this is why she was let go.

 

[jepop]

Ex-husband of woman who cooked lethal mushrooms nearly died last year

Erin Patterson, 48, invited her former in-laws, Gail and Don Patterson, Gail's sister and her husband, Heather and Ian Wilkinson, for lunch at her Leongatha home, in Victoria's Gippsland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So, between the different articles y'all have listed, and this one, as well as this youtube video, i learned a lot.

1. her in-laws didn't think she was good enough for their son
2. i think her parents deaths should be re-examined - she inherited their money as well as the expensive house she lives in
3. her husband was indeed supposed to be there, cancelled last minute
4. her husband fell ill around erin and she "nursed him back to health" - he almost died the year before.
5. the story changed from the kids being at the movies to the kids being present for the meal, or vice versa
6. extremely suspicious she drove not even to the nearest landfill but one further away to throw away the kitchen appliance
7. didnt she claim she used woolworth mushrooms as well as a "packet of asian mushrooms purchased at an asian market" (she conveniently doesnt recall the location)

RE 2: It's been widely reported that her parents died years apart from cancer. Father in 2011, mother in 2019. It can be googled and was discussed on previous thread. Imo it's pretty hard to disguise stage 4 cancer as poisoning. Imo that didn't happen. And I have never read any reputable source that gives an inkling of that happening. Cancer is, Imo, a leading cause of death in Australia and many western countries. Moo

ETA: 1. 3. 4. 6. are far from being verified facts and shouldn't be stated as fact. Moo

 

[kittythehare]

I can't remember who posted before about this lady Rajvir Kaur who sued Woolworths in Canberra in 2014 after she said mushrooms purchased there gave her Death Cap poisoning.

I stumbled on the outcome of her lawsuit against Woolworths. She was unsuccessful. It is in the last paragraph of this link.

Death Cap Mushrooms kill three - Australian food history timeline -

2012-Two people died after eating Amanita phalloides, or Death Cap Mushrooms at a New Year’s eve dinner in Canberra. Another later died.

australianfoodtimeline.com.au

i am curious for the full story.

was anybody else affected?, only 9 years ago, must be other records available.
I'll search.

 

[Charlot123]

Just to remind the timeline of the lunch - illness

Saturday, July 29

Don and Gail Patterson and Heather and Ian Wilkinson gather at Erin Patterson's home in Leongatha for lunch.

Sunday, July 30

All four lunch guests present to hospital feeling ill. It is initially thought they have gastro. Erin Patterson also goes to hospital but is discharged.

As their condition deteriorates, they are transferred to hospitals in Melbourne.

*(NB: the time interval between finishing the lunch and the hospital admissions was probably more than 6 hours; likely, 12 or more. However, the GI symptoms could have started at night, but maybe the guests hoped they would recover by the morning). *

To me, it is interesting when EP went to ER. If she presented after the relatives (maybe they called her), it makes sense. Her symptoms are probably minimal, but just in case.

If she came in earlier than her relatives, with minimal symptoms, and was not kept in the hospital, this is concerning.

Continuing: Friday, August 4

Gail and Heather die in hospital.

That would be day 4-5 post-injestion

Saturday, August 5 day 5-6 post-injestion

Don dies in hospital.

From what I understand, Erin is totally fine by then and has no symptoms typical of phase 3.

So, four guests have symptoms of poisoning with (some toxin, allegedly, amatoxin) which follows, time-wise, the typical course for the illness, and they die from it.

The hostess presents, within the same time, with complaints, but either no symptoms or symptoms so mild that she is discharged. Still, if she had phase 1, she should have phase 2 and 3 when the illness is more severe. She totally bypasses phase 3. If she “ate less”, or “were younger”, she’d probably still show some symptoms, although milder. It is very unusual that she has none in phase 3.

As to motives, either she convinced herself that her in-laws were standing in the way of her reunification with SP, and removed them, or…

Could it be possible that she sent a piece of her famed “Beef Wellington” to Simon, with her guests, some people do it if someone missed the event? Only cautious Simon didn’t eat it?

 

[Forest_Wood]

Setting her up would not be hard as she was the only consumer of mushrooms in her house.
She should have been the only person there to consume the mushrooms.
Anybody that knew that about her family and also had access to her home, friends, relations, whoever, could have done that at some time in the past.

They could not have imagined that she would cook a meal for sharing with the possibly substituted pack.

That would have made her the target.

Impossible to even take an educated guess at this one.

I've been wondering the same thing. What if someone who knew that the kids did not eat mushrooms, substituted or added to the bag of mushrooms she thought were from the Asian store. They could have sat in that container for some time until she made a meal with them. I haven't been able to find any info if she had used the mushrooms from that container previously before this meal. It was reported by a neighbour that the entire family foraged for mushrooms, not just her. MOO.

 

[kittythehare]

I've been wondering the same thing. What if someone who knew the kids did not eat mushrooms substituted or added to the mushrooms in the bag she thought were from the store. They could have sat in that container for some time until she made a meal with them. I haven't been able to find any info on if she had used the mushrooms in that container before this meal. It was reported by a neighbour that the entire family foraged for mushrooms, not just her. MOO.

Yes.

 

[Oona]

Just to remind the timeline of the lunch - illness

Saturday, July 29

Don and Gail Patterson and Heather and Ian Wilkinson gather at Erin Patterson's home in Leongatha for lunch.

Sunday, July 30

All four lunch guests present to hospital feeling ill. It is initially thought they have gastro. Erin Patterson also goes to hospital but is discharged.

As their condition deteriorates, they are transferred to hospitals in Melbourne.

*(NB: the time interval between finishing the lunch and the hospital admissions was probably more than 6 hours; likely, 12 or more. However, the GI symptoms could have started at night, but maybe the guests hoped they would recover by the morning). *

To me, it is interesting when EP went to ER. If she presented after the relatives (maybe they called her), it makes sense. Her symptoms are probably minimal, but just in case.

If she came in earlier than her relatives, with minimal symptoms, and was not kept in the hospital, this is concerning.

Continuing: Friday, August 4

Gail and Heather die in hospital.

That would be day 4-5 post-injestion

Saturday, August 5 day 5-6 post-injestion

Don dies in hospital.

From what I understand, Erin is totally fine by then and has no symptoms typical of phase 3.

So, four guests have symptoms of poisoning with (some toxin, allegedly, amatoxin) which follows, time-wise, the typical course for the illness, and they die from it.

The hostess presents, within the same time, with complaints, but either no symptoms or symptoms so mild that she is discharged. Still, if she had phase 1, she should have phase 2 and 3 when the illness is more severe. She totally bypasses phase 3. If she “ate less”, or “were younger”, she’d probably still show some symptoms, although milder. It is very unusual that she has none in phase 3.

As to motives, either she convinced herself that her in-laws were standing in the way of her reunification with SP, and removed them, or…

Could it be possible that she sent a piece of her famed “Beef Wellington” to Simon, with her guests, some people do it if someone missed the event? Only cautious Simon didn’t eat it?

We have to assume EP did not go to hospital until after the children had eaten the left overs on the Sunday evening, otherwise her feeding them to her children is unfathomable.

 

[Ellery84]

If she had bought them in a market, it would be strange that no one else bought any and also became sick. JMO

We had an issue here in Australia a few years ago where a strawberry picker in Queensland allegedly put few sewing needles into a strawberries, that were then purchased by an unwitting customer.

Strawberry needle contamination: Australian Federal Police and Border Force investigating - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

It started off as a one-off incident then it became a bit of a trend. Then, Australia-wide, some people started going into supermarkets and putting needles in the strawberry punnets in the supermarket.

Tampering with food in grocery stores is a bit of a weird thing that does happen in Australia from time to time. Imo

Recently a woman in Perth found a needle in her garlic bread.

Perth shopper chips tooth on NEEDLE in Woolies garlic bread

A woman claims her partner cracked his tooth on a sewing needle found in garlic bread bought from a Woolworths store in Perth — and little has been done to rectify the shocking find.

www.perthnow.com.au

A nefarious person could even potentially put some death caps into the big Woolworths mushroom pile, the one where customers “self-serve” and bag the mushrooms themselves…. Imo

I also came across this interesting article from the Washington Post.

Nearly half of all packaged food products on supermarket shelves can be opened and reclosed without detection, making them extremely vulnerable to tampering, according to a recent survey of five retail food stores in upstate New York.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...markets/4eaa9fdb-6531-4408-8901-5b1e335e9d3e/

For all we know, Erin may have just been very unlucky when shopping for mushrooms in the lead up to the fateful July 29 meal.

Jmo and I am trying to keep an open mind.

BBM

 

[SouthAussie]

It also says that a third guest recovered, having not eaten as much as the others.

Death Cap Mushrooms kill three - Australian food history timeline -

2012-Two people died after eating Amanita phalloides, or Death Cap Mushrooms at a New Year’s eve dinner in Canberra. Another later died.

australianfoodtimeline.com.au

"It appears Liu Jun was a fan of foraging and fresh food and used his local finds to prepare a private dinner for friends after the official New Year celebrations ended. He and one of his guests died a few days later waiting for liver transplants at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney. A third guest recovered, not having eaten as much of the stir-fry that contained the poisonous fungi. Another man who died in hospital at around the same time was poisoned in a separate incident"

I wonder why no one suspected the one who recovered ?

That seems awfully suspicious. How can someone survive and not be affected as much.

These days it's totally suspicious if you're not affected as much, back then not so much.

Homicide Squad Detective Inspector Dean Thomas said that EP exhibited no symptoms of Death Cap poisoning. That is what I am relying on. Link

While police say that her ex in-laws did present with symptoms of Death Cap poisoning. Link

So, it seems that whatever made EP feel ill was likely not Death Cap poisoning that she needed to recover from.
They may know exactly what made her feel ill, from blood tests or other diagnosis.

EP went to Leongatha Hospital some time on the 30th, the day after the poisoning. Then was presumably immediately discharged, as she returned "later" (EP said on July 31st) and was transported to Monash for the precautionary treatment. Link

They don't seem to be releasing lab result info, they are only telling us that 4 had Death Cap poisoning symptoms, one did not.
.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I still think it all could very likely be accidental deaths from mistaking the mushrooms.

If so all the rest can be explained by trying to cover it up.

Yes it does sound stupid, but these days even for an accidental death people go to jail, sometimes for a long time.
And the fines when even one person dies accidentally are huge.

Then there are civil lawsuits. A person could lose everything even if it was just a terrible mistake.

And no I don't think she killed her parents, or made her ex sick.


When there is enough evidence to make me think otherwise, then I will think otherwise.