Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #6 *Arrest*

[Ellery84]

Because he is a judgmental moron who already labeled the wall "the death wall".

You had me at “judgemental moron”! Very apt.

 

[RickshawFan]

This looks pretty nice for a prison cell. There is a window even. View attachment 470155

I was thinking that, too. Better than some college dorm rooms. It even has a curtained loo?

 

[RickshawFan]

Plus she now doesn’t have a TV, a vacuum cleaner or a car….

Not much to come back to at this point, is there….
Imo

Most importantly, Erin can’t hire someone to do her housekeeping, which she used to hold over Simon’s head. This is major ego-slaughter.

 

[Ellery84]

Most importantly, Erin can’t hire someone to do her housekeeping, which she used to hold over Simon’s head. This is major ego-slaughter.

Yeah, that’s hard. It’s hard to “adult” in general, without being able to hire a housekeeper - that makes life just that little bit more difficult, doesn’t it.

IMO

 

[DeDee]

Is it possible when EP finds out the vast evidence against her, she'll change her plea to guilty in order to keep the information from the public? There's motive, means and opportunity. imhoo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Alleged motive.
Means and opportunity.

<modsnip: sub judice>

 

[Lady Bug]

I'm still to see a "motive" to murder the four senior lunch guests, especially the aunt and the pastor.

 

[Lady Bug]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

EP's case is listed for a committal mention/hearing on May the 3rd...... (some charges might be dropped at the committal hearing imo)

Suspected mushroom poisoning: Erin Patterson fronts court on murder charges over deaths in Victoria, Australia

Patterson, 49, was charged with three counts of murder and five counts of attempted murder after family lunch in rural Australian town of Leongatha

www.theguardian.com

Committal hearing​

Different states and territories have different rules about whether committal hearings are needed.
During a committal hearing, a magistrate will consider the evidence the prosecution intends to use, and decide if there is enough to take the matter to a trial. Depending on where the trial takes place, it will be held in either the Supreme, County or District Court.
If the magistrate decides the prosecution does not have enough evidence, they will dismiss the matter and the defendant will be free to leave.
At a committal hearing, there is no jury and the magistrate makes all the decisions and judgments.

• If the magistrate decides there is enough evidence, the defendant will be committed for trial. This means the matter will be heard in one of the higher courts at a later date.
  
  
  https://victimsandwitnesses.cdpp.gov.au/prosecution-process/prosecution-process/steps-prosecution-process/step-4-committal-hearing

 

[Ellery84]

BBM

EP's case is listed for a committal mention/hearing on May the 3rd...... (some charges might be dropped at the committal hearing imo)

Which charges will be dropped, @Lady Bug ?

Suspected mushroom poisoning: Erin Patterson fronts court on murder charges over deaths in Victoria, Australia

Patterson, 49, was charged with three counts of murder and five counts of attempted murder after family lunch in rural Australian town of Leongatha

www.theguardian.com

Committal hearing​

Different states and territories have different rules about whether committal hearings are needed.
During a committal hearing, a magistrate will consider the evidence the prosecution intends to use, and decide if there is enough to take the matter to a trial. Depending on where the trial takes place, it will be held in either the Supreme, County or District Court.
If the magistrate decides the prosecution does not have enough evidence, they will dismiss the matter and the defendant will be free to leave.
At a committal hearing, there is no jury and the magistrate makes all the decisions and judgments.

• If the magistrate decides there is enough evidence, the defendant will be committed for trial. This means the matter will be heard in one of the higher courts at a later date.
  
  
  https://victimsandwitnesses.cdpp.gov.au/prosecution-process/prosecution-process/steps-prosecution-process/step-4-committal-hearing

 

[Lady Bug]

Which charges will be dropped, @Lady Bug ?

I'm not saying any charges will or won't be dropped. It was a general comment about what can happen at a committal hearing. I used imo as I added something which was not in the link I provided.

 

[Ellery84]

I'm not saying any charges will or won't be dropped. It was a general comment about what can happen at a committal hearing. I used imo as I added something which was not in the link I provided.

Ok but if some were to be dropped at committal, what would your best guess be? Which charges, in your opinion?

TIA

 

[Lady Bug]

Ok but if some were to be dropped at committal, what would your best guess be? Which charges, in your opinion?

TIA

There is no point guessing when we have no idea what's in the brief of evidence.

 

[katydid23]

Ok but if some were to be dropped at committal, what would your best guess be? Which charges, in your opinion?

TIA

I'm curious to see if they will drop any of the attempted murder charges for the suspected poisonings of her ex.

I wonder how much solid evidence there is for those incidents. Really curious to see what she's accused of giving him, since it wasn't death caps apparently.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm curious to see if they will drop any of the attempted murder charges for the suspected poisonings of her ex.

I wonder how much solid evidence there is for those incidents. Really curious to see what she's accused of giving him, since it wasn't death caps apparently.

SP thinks he was poisoned with nightshade. Possibly due to the kind of toxins that appeared in his hospital tests?

Simon Patterson believed his ex-wife Erin Patterson had tried to poison him through an 'ingested toxin' from nightshade plants ...... The consumption of nightshade plants containing poisonous alkaloids can be fatal. Link

I imagine this could be confirmed through SP's hospital urine and blood test results. Vets do urine and blood tests on dogs who are suspected of eating nightshade plants due to their symptoms - one would think that doctors would look similarly for signs of toxin in SP's blood and urine when he was so deathly sick.

Now that EP has been charged with poisoning other relatives, prosecutors can likely make a believable link between SP's poisoning and the poisoning of the others.

imo

 

[Ellery84]

I'm curious to see if they will drop any of the attempted murder charges for the suspected poisonings of her ex.

I wonder how much solid evidence there is for those incidents. Really curious to see what she's accused of giving him, since it wasn't death caps apparently.

Look, when @Lady Bug initially suggested charges can be dropped at committal hearings <in a general sense>, I actually started thinking, well ok - I wonder if the Crown will drop either the Death Cap lunch charges (including murder and attempted murder of various individuals known to Ms. Patterson) en masse or might they drop all of the historical charges of attempted murder relating to Simon Patterson?

To me, there’s no link between the alleged familial poisoning via beef Wellington and the historical charges of attempted murder (the ones alleged to have occurred before the lunch in question) of ex partner Simon, as you also have mentioned that the methodology was thought by police to be (allegedly) different, I. e. Not via death caps.

None of this makes any sense to me.

I do wonder: In the brief that the Crown put together for Erin’s charges: What did the Prosecution state was the alleged method of Erin’s attempted murders of Simon prior to the lunch incident?

Was it allegedly death by weapon or some kind of poisoning?

I’m going to play devils advocate here and go out on a limb and ask:

Does anyone think that maybe ex partner Simon might be a bit paranoid and be mistakenly (but not maliciously) be attributing his previous illnesses on Erin with not much proof?

All imo

I would really hate to see an innocent woman in prison, and I can’t see any motive she might have at all for anything that she has been charged with:
What am I missing, Sleuthers?

 

[Ellery84]

SP thinks he was poisoned with nightshade. Possibly due to the kind of toxins that appeared in his hospital tests?

Simon Patterson believed his ex-wife Erin Patterson had tried to poison him through an 'ingested toxin' from nightshade plants ...... The consumption of nightshade plants containing poisonous alkaloids can be fatal. Link

I imagine this could be confirmed through SP's hospital urine and blood test results. Vets do urine and blood tests on dogs who are suspected of eating nightshade plants due to their symptoms - one would think that doctors would look similarly for signs of toxin in SP's blood and urine when he was so deathly sick.

Now that EP has been charged with poisoning other relatives, prosecutors can likely make a believable link between SP's poisoning and the poisoning of the others.

imo

Oh. My. Goodness.

 

[Ellery84]

Simon Patterson believed his ex-wife Erin Patterson had tried to poison him through an 'ingested toxin' from nightshade plants ...... The consumption of nightshade plants containing poisonous alkaloids can be fatal. Link

Now that EP has been charged with poisoning other relatives, prosecutors can likely make a believable link between SP's poisoning and the poisoning of the others.

Wouldn’t that be a tendency evidence nightmare of sorts for the Prosecution?

I’m sure there are a couple of great tendency specialists (Barristers) out there in Victoria, imo they might just blow this case to smithereens.

IMO

 

[Charlot123]

Look, when @Lady Bug initially suggested charges can be dropped at committal hearings <in a general sense>, I actually started thinking, well ok - I wonder if the Crown will drop either the Death Cap lunch charges (including murder and attempted murder of various individuals known to Ms. Patterson) en masse or might they drop all of the historical charges of attempted murder relating to Simon Patterson?

To me, there’s no link between the alleged familial poisoning via beef Wellington and the historical charges of attempted murder (the ones alleged to have occurred before the lunch in question) of ex partner Simon, as you also have mentioned that the methodology was thought by police to be (allegedly) different, I. e. Not via death caps.

None of this makes any sense to me.

I do wonder: In the brief that the Crown put together for Erin’s charges: What did the Prosecution state was the alleged method of Erin’s attempted murders of Simon prior to the lunch incident?

Was it allegedly death by weapon or some kind of poisoning?

I’m going to play devils advocate here and go out on a limb and ask:

Does anyone think that maybe ex partner Simon might be a bit paranoid and be mistakenly (but not maliciously) be attributing his previous illnesses on Erin with not much proof?

All imo

I would really hate to see an innocent woman in prison, and I can’t see any motive she might have at all for anything that she has been charged with:
What am I missing, Sleuthers?

Well, for starters, he was in a coma in the ICU and had to undergo several unplanned procedures and a planned surgery. It seemed consistent with some bacterial infection at that time (C. Diff?), but a year later, he still had weakness in one arm. So paranoid or not, he had objective symptoms of a very serious illness.

I read only SP’s posts in a photographer’s journal when married to EP, and the eulogy he gave to parents. In the posts, he was not devoid of some funny, albeit slightly clumsy, sense of humor when complaining of EP’s anger. She didn’t like to be taken photos of, and his phrase “the reason I am still alive is because I don’t try” indicates the tendency to joke off when the situation is difficult. I can’t see much more, but I doubt he was that paranoid before he ended up on a ventilator for almost a month. This changes one’s outlook on life. And even after that, he wasn’t suspicious of EP, but then he felt unwell again. To me, EP seems rigid, unforgetting and overall, a “heavy person”, never letting things go. SP is sort of a lightweight compared to her. (BTW, in the “death wall” I see dad’s trait in the kids - using humor to deal with an uneasy situation.)

So of course, we don’t know much, but I think his suspiciousness developed over time. Whether validated or not, we don’t know, of course, and while I am very suspicious about the mushroom poisoning, SP’s case is 50/50.

 

[SouthAussie]

If we knew the alleged motive for the alleged poisoning of the others, it might all become crystal clear. That is where there might be a substantive link (prosecution-wise) between the deaths/illness of the others and the illness of SP.

Evidently, the timing of it all has been since EP and SP's separation (I think).

imo

 

[Ellery84]

Well, for starters, he was in a coma in the ICU and had to undergo several unplanned procedures and a planned surgery. It seemed consistent with some bacterial infection at that time (C. Diff?), but a year later, he still had weakness in one arm. So paranoid or not, he had objective symptoms of a very serious illness.

I read only SP’s posts in a photographer’s journal when married to EP, and the eulogy he gave to parents. In the posts, he was not devoid of some funny, albeit slightly clumsy, sense of humor when complaining of EP’s anger. She didn’t like to be taken photos of, and his phrase “the reason I am still alive is because I don’t try” indicates the tendency to joke off when the situation is difficult. I can’t see much more, but I doubt he was that paranoid before he ended up on a ventilator for almost a month. This changes one’s outlook on life. And even after that, he wasn’t suspicious of EP, but then he felt unwell again. To me, EP seems rigid, unforgetting and overall, a “heavy person”, never letting things go. SP is sort of a lightweight compared to her. (BTW, in the “death wall” I see dad’s trait in the kids - using humor to deal with an uneasy situation.)

So of course, we don’t know much, but I think his suspiciousness developed over time. Whether validated or not, we don’t know, of course, and while I am very suspicious about the mushroom poisoning, SP’s case is 50/50.

I agree…. I was quite suspicious over the alleged mushroom poisoning, and whether that was intentional or not, but I didn’t link it with Simon’s previous illnesses and hospital admissions until the police did, when they arrested Erin and laid all of those charges.

Obviously, the police know more than I do! <Maybe they’ve got it wrong!> And the police know more than the media know as they have custody of the actual evidence, but just as a regular person - I would never have drawn the connection between the two very different sets of situations. You have the (allegedly) fatal Beef Wellington lunch on one hand, and then a string of historical attempted murder charges on the other hand. The only common denominator that I can see between the two very distinct sets of (alleged) charges is: Simon Patterson the ex husband, who was supposed to be at the Beef Wellington lunch. IMO

To me it would have seemed like an outrageous conspiracy, and too fanciful to think anyone might have committed such a large amount of murders and attempted murders, some at a distinct point in time with a number of alleged victims and others over a period of time centred on only one victim, but outrageous things happen from time to time and I’m eagerly awaiting the upcoming matters that relate to this case.

I feel like the MO or psychological profile of a person who would poison a group of people at a lunch is different to the profile of a person who would attempt to kill their husband (or ex) many times over a period of time, as the Crown has alleged here. If this is real, if the judicial system does one day determine that these charges are legitimate, to me it would seem as if there were two people operating within one person, concurrently, if and when these horrific alleged events occurred.

IMHO

Just sharing some thoughts on the case. Ms. Patterson has presumption of innocence, and quite rightly so.