Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #10

[Fuskier]

morning, had an early breakkie wi friends this morning, one being a legal eagle. As usual this case came up in conversation, and one of the people present innocently asked could it be that the QPS would move in on GBC (if involved) after allowing the children to get a little bit of normality back into their lives after such a traggic event for such young children?

I would like to hear from the likes of dark shadow, key boredom, hawkins etc if this could even be legally possible for the wheels of justice to work like this i.e someone signing off on 'delaying' an arrest when they have enough to be able to carry it out??? The Attorney General for example??

Excellent question. I look forward to their response too.

 

[mountainhigh]

Mountainhigh,

I don't know if you are from a law enforcement/legal backgound, but it sounds like maybe you have friends who are... IYO, if this case isn't 'wrapped' in the next couple of months, could it drag on for over a year before an arrest is made, if one is ever made?

ha ha, father (deceased) & wife & friends (Judge & solicitors respectively)
I have been told on this case incl from 'badges' in their opinion/gossip/etc that arrests are imminent but I will believe when I see it.
But to answer your question IMO, if its not wrapped up within the next 3-4 weeks then yes it may drag on for some time because they obviouslly wouldnt have sufficient forensic evidence and they may need to work on different theories and tackle it in a different way. They work through theories and evidence side by side and elimenate as they go along.
Surely for completeness however they are simply just waiting for toxicology results. At least this is what I am hoping.


Hawkins, dark shadow???? You will know more than I or my contacts will....

 

[Zorro]

Locality around Kholo Creek bridge on Mt Crosby Road.

 

[Fuskier]

Hi Kimster,

No, not at all - the creek is quite curved and accessible on east and west sides by Bunya and Wirrabarra Rds... however, both roads are only accessible (without trekking through scrub & national park) from the south being Mt Crosby Rd. The alleged location of the vehicles at Anstead is east along Mt Crosby Rd and thus east of the two suspected access points. The cars are exactly where they should be if that was their involvement.

The only other way to reach Kholo Bridge would involve a very circuitous route via main roads, highway and lots of cameras....

WOW! An important verification of the location of the cars given their speculated involvement.

 

[minni]

Bushchick - Hi and welcome there was definately "talk speculation" that Allsion had been a "target" of a hit and run. This was widly discussed on a well known "book" site as early as the helicopters flying over brookfield. However I have only seen and very recently by "new comers" posts on this forum relating to this. It wasnt mentioned in the mid threads and as I say only posted by posters with 1 or 2 "posts". Not sure where this information is coming from either very close to home or someone in the know. Could be a hit and run then realised she was not dead so then finished off the job all gone wrong so then dump body. Which is why a regular poster on here said that there would be some horrific details regarding Allsions death?

I find it very hard to imagine a hit and run leaving no blood evidence on the car, or in the car during transporting of the body, unless there was no blood, which could be possible but seems unlikely

 

[minni]

Bushchick - Hi and welcome there was definately "talk speculation" that Allsion had been a "target" of a hit and run. This was widly discussed on a well known "book" site as early as the helicopters flying over brookfield. However I have only seen and very recently by "new comers" posts on this forum relating to this. It wasnt mentioned in the mid threads and as I say only posted by posters with 1 or 2 "posts". Not sure where this information is coming from either very close to home or someone in the know. Could be a hit and run then realised she was not dead so then finished off the job all gone wrong so then dump body. Which is why a regular poster on here said that there would be some horrific details regarding Allsions death?

the results from autopsy MUST be back by now...at least preliminary findings..the poster who brought this up (it was either Gibbs, Brennan or Grissom) probably is hearing all sorts of whispers in inner circles...I hope its not true...I hope Allison did not suffer

 

[Fuskier]

respect any opinion and certainly the grandparents or neighbours won't be a consideration!!
And no doubt it will be based on secure evidence so the case is water tight in their opinion.
I do disagree that the children won't be a consideraton given the circumstances.
In spite of justice, the welfare of these children WILL be a priority for the authorities and whilst it may not effect the timing of an arrest (this is what I want someone experienced to answer of course i.e Legallly CAN an arrest EVEN be delayed) it will still be an issue and arrangements will have to be negotiated or discussions will take place as to who will become their legal guardian. I highly think an arrest would take place without this even being discussed by the authorities..
That is a fact...
They wouldn't just knock on the door and take 'the old man' away and leave the kids in the house on their own.
No doubt there are procedures already in place within our legislation for this very kind of situation.

IMO The Police and authorities will plan for the welfare of the children in advance of any arrest(s). They will be looked after. There will be loving family and professional support for them. Unfortunately, we cannot protect them from their reality. If they are attached to their father, then they will feel inevitable loss. They were attached to their mother and her death at the hands of an 'unknown killer'(s) is a major traumatic loss. But we can provide support and care for them. We can strengthen their attachment/belonging to alternative loving family members to create security. It may take many years to begin to deal with these traumatic losses. They will each take their own time to grieve in their own way. We can't protect them from this. We can support them through it. Good loving family and professional support can build resilience in them. They will most likely learn to survive this in time. MOO.

 

[laserdisc10]

The Police and authorities will plan for the welfare of the children in advance of any arrest(s). They will be looked after. There will be loving family and professional support for them. Unfortunately, we cannot protect them from their reality. If they are attached to their father, then they will feel inevitable loss. They were attached to their mother and her death at the hands of an 'unknown killer'(s) is a major traumatic loss. But we can provide support and care for them. We can strengthen their attachment/belonging to alternative loving family members to create security. It may take many years to begin to deal with these traumatic losses. They will each take their own time to grieve in their own way. We can't protect them from this. We can support them through it.

No truer word spoken

good post

 

[CaseClosed]

the results from autopsy MUST be back by now...at least preliminary findings..the poster who brought this up (it was either Gibbs, Brennan or Grissom) probably is hearing all sorts of whispers in inner circles...I hope its not true...I hope Allison did not suffer

I am right now watching a program on Foxtel called "Dr. G. Medical Examiner". Real life autopsies. She is the Chief Medical Examiner in Orlando, Florida. I have watched many of her shows. The body autopsy only takes a few hours, but the toxicology results can take upto 3 week (where she is). Then she has to analyse tissue samples under the microscope, taken from every single organ in the body. It is a slow process. Then compare and correlate these with what she observed when analysing the body itself and the toxicology report. Then, and only then, can she establish the Cause of Death (even if she has some theories beforehand of how the person died).

 

[minni]

With all the theories floating around, I can't help but think that this case is still a case of DV gone too far and not pre-planned. Was there a cover-up after the fact, IMO yes. Who helped him? IMO a member of his family and not the alleged mistress. My observations of the funeral photos still make me think that he was genuinely grieving that day, saying "sorry" to the girls and the coffin ... remorseful, but too late to make amends.

Whether he was at the school in one of the classrooms? I doubt it. He knows that the public is considering him the prime suspect and he probably can't wait to get out of there every day and back out of sight. Why he went to the show? Just because he has little kids who love that type of thing. I don't believe he went to big-note himself. Why he is going to the office? Because he needs to take care of his business, which is failing quickly.

Even reading the numerous threads here, I can clearly see that things get twisted slightly every time someone re-posts someone else's comments and it ends up being different to the original point being discussed. This is exactly what happens in real life. Gossip may have started, for example, as someone seeing him at the school, but ended being that he was actually helping in a classroom. Someone saw him at the shops last week without a beard, but yesterday someone else saw him at the show with a beard.

I am now taking a step back and just concentrating on what we know as reported by the police or the media. There are too many wild things being reported by people "in the know", which end up a few pages down the thread being taken as facts.

I may be proven wrong in the end, but I think this case is much simpler than we think.

chinese whispers

 

[minni]

Sorry just logged on about 15 minutes ago and trying to catch up on all the pages/posts so don't know if this has already been answered but YES there were reports of drag marks (can't find the article on this ATM) there are also properties in the area that back onto some of the creeks in question and another WS reported that one of these may be for sale at present and vacant ? I have to drive over that bridge to get to my sister's house and where they found ABC is only metres away from the Brisbane river. A bit of divine intervention me thinks on her body coming to rest where it did if it did indeed get washed down through one of the creeks.
The Tyamolum Scout Camp is situated North of where she was found. I would actually like to see a map of this area in more detail than what I can see on Google Earth if anyone has a link. Would be interesting to see how all the creeks connect and exactly where they run.
After her body was found and they were searching the area a sim card and gloves were found. The sim card was later announced as not being connected in any way but the gloves were never mentioned again. It does seem quite curious to me that she was dumped in this area ie the connection of the family to the scouting grounds. I live across the river from where this happened and the gossip is just soo full on. I also have family that lives in Brookfield and near to it.

you make an interesting point regarding the gloves... it would be logical for the police to state the sim card (and the gloves) were of no interest to the case...however they didn't. I have totally overlooked that but think they must be relevant...GOOD CATCH Xfiles!! the gloves will have DNA inside that will place someone right there at the body site and if it has any DNA of Allison on the outside of the gloves, then hello murderer!!!!

I think this takes a little time unfortunately to get a hit on DNA, they will also need DNA to match it against...fingers crossed

 

[minni]

My mother disappeared/went missing when I was a baby, I dont remember her.

My father was a suspect but no charges were laid against him, no body was ever found.

My father changed his name and moved interstate with us. We were raised with his new name as our last name. His family thinks he changed our names to start a new life and so that her family couldnt find him/us.

When I was an adult I found out that he had not legally changed our names only his, so when I got married I had to use my birth certificate name for the wedding, it was really strange.

thanks Bayside..this case must have a very personal connection for you

 

[minni]

A few days ago, someone with knowledge said that as soon as they have all the evidence they need, an arrest will be made regardless of the effect on children, etc. Therefore, one can conclude that if an arrest is not made soon, it's because they still don't have all they need to charge someone.

as much as I would like to think that the children come first...I can not under any circumstances imagine a situation where the police would allow a killer to go free when they had him nailed. They must deal with the arrests of men or women with children every day, all the time. we just don't hear about it. I strongly believe that when they gather all they need, the will arrest the killer

 

[brightspark]

Sorry just logged on about 15 minutes ago and trying to catch up on all the pages/posts so don't know if this has already been answered but YES there were reports of drag marks (can't find the article on this ATM) there are also properties in the area that back onto some of the creeks in question and another WS reported that one of these may be for sale at present and vacant ? I have to drive over that bridge to get to my sister's house and where they found ABC is only metres away from the Brisbane river. A bit of divine intervention me thinks on her body coming to rest where it did if it did indeed get washed down through one of the creeks.
The Tyamolum Scout Camp is situated North of where she was found. I would actually like to see a map of this area in more detail than what I can see on Google Earth if anyone has a link. Would be interesting to see how all the creeks connect and exactly where they run.
After her body was found and they were searching the area a sim card and gloves were found. The sim card was later announced as not being connected in any way but the gloves were never mentioned again. It does seem quite curious to me that she was dumped in this area ie the connection of the family to the scouting grounds. I live across the river from where this happened and the gossip is just soo full on. I also have family that lives in Brookfield and near to it.

Hi Xfiles, I also have wondered about the conection with the scout area. I think that perhaps if someone was in a hurry to dump something quickly, they would rely on prior knowledge of bushland, especially if panic did set in.

Here I make the presumption that said person has had close ties with Scouting movement, especially local group. (I think that the said person would not hold back on capitalising on the link with such a prominent figure). Perhaps said person drove blue (dark) car, then true to form, became the BOSS, took charge and met weaker panick stricken 2nd person on the road to scout grounds. 2nd person in panic state and perhaps shock, followed blue car closely. very closely as proximitly to Boss probably gave some comfort, head lights low due to glare and reflection from front vehicle. IMO

IMO body was found downstream to where it was dumped ... given the report by locals of amount of downpour that occurred.

Just my opinion ...

I tend to agree with CaseClosed and that the facts are probably much more simpler than we think.

 

[minni]

I am right now watching a program on Foxtel called "Dr. G. Medical Examiner". Real life autopsies. She is the Chief Medical Examiner in Orlando, Florida. I have watched many of her shows. The body autopsy only takes a few hours, but the toxicology results can take upto 3 week (where she is). Then she has to analyse tissue samples under the microscope, taken from every single organ in the body. It is a slow process. Then compare and correlate these with what she observed when analysing the body itself and the toxicology report. Then, and only then, can she establish the Cause of Death (even if she has some theories beforehand of how the person died).

Thanks CaseClosed....I've seen her show before too and I understand the time it takes..I just wonder what the examiner may have already divulged to police based on her early findings...surely he/she has some unconfirmed discoveries or thoughts on the body that can help eliminate or lend focus to specific people/scenarios/locations/possible COD? what I mean to say is I think that even without full toxicology and autopsy reports etc, the police have more to go on than 'she's dead somehow'

 

[Greg]

Only 4 properties now for sale left on Century 21 Taringa site.

he must be selling them fast!

 

[minni]

Thanks CaseClosed....I've seen her show before too and I understand the time it takes..I just wonder what the examiner may have already divulged to police based on her early findings...surely he/she has some unconfirmed discoveries or thoughts on the body that can help eliminate or lend focus to specific people/scenarios/locations/possible COD? what I mean to say is I think that even without full toxicology and autopsy reports etc, the police have more to go on than 'she's dead somehow'

because these guys (detectives) must speculate more than we do...it goes with the territory, and Im sure (before they ruled out most of them) they have probably mulled over the same theories as we have here on WS!

 

[Fuskier]

View attachment 22339

I wonder if this works. If it does it is a map of the key places. (2 cars within 2km - not sure which way from the bridge, hence two markers.)

Thanks Zorro for a really helpful post. Nothing like a visual map to demonstrate the proximity of the cars to the crime scene at Kholo Bridge. Probably casing for the best spot to put the body?

 

[minni]

he must be selling them fast!

:floorlaugh:

 

[Curiousasacat]

Thought I would post JUST the QPS media statements.
QPS Media links.

Missing person, Brookfield
April 20, 2012, 6:01 pm
"Police are seeking public assistance to help locate missing 43-year-old woman, Allison Baden-Clay.
Ms Baden-Clay was last seen at a residence on Brookfield Road at Brookfield around 10pm last night.
She is described being Caucasian, has blonde hair and is around 165cm tall with an average build. She was last seen wearing grey track suit pants and a grey/black top with white running shoes.

Police are urging anyone who may have seen Ms Baden-Clay last night or today to contact Crime Stoppers."
http://qpsmedia.govspace.gov.au/2012/04/20/missing-person-brookfield/


Mannequin to be used in search for missing Brookfield woman
April 26, 2012, 7:05 pm
The mannequin will be displayed from around 6am in clothing similar to what Allison is believed to have been wearing prior to her disappearance on April 19.
http://qpsmedia.govspace.gov.au/201...-used-in-search-for-missing-brookfield-woman/

Update: search for missing Brookfield woman
April 28, 2012, 12:06 pm
Police investigating the disappearance of Allison Baden-Clay have renewed their appeal for anyone that might have seen either of two vehicles (pictured) on the night Ms Baden-Clay went missing (last Thursday evening or early Friday morning), to contact them.
**snipped**
"Police investigating the disappearance of Allison Baden-Clay have renewed their appeal for anyone that might have seen either of two vehicles (pictured) on the night Ms Baden-Clay went missing (last Thursday evening or early Friday morning), to contact them.
“Today’s search includes resources from Metro South and Metro North police regions, Police Divers, the Police Mounted Unit and the State Emergency Service. "
emind residents in the Brookfield area, where there are a large number of acreage homes and former mining sites, to again check their properties, to remain vigilant and report anything unusual to police.

“It is essential that residents register searches of their properties by calling Policelink on 131 444 or by attending the Police Forward Command Post at the Brookfield Showgrounds.”"
Ms Baden-Clay was last seen at a residence on Brookfield Road at Brookfield around 10pm on Thursday, April 19.

Update: Search for Allison Baden-Clay
April 30, 2012, 4:41 pm
Police are searching the area where the body of a woman was located in a creek at Anstead this morning.
A canoeist reported the discovery to police about 11am.
A formal identification of the body is not expected today.
appealed to people who live in the area to come forward if they saw or heard anything suspicious in the past two weeks.

“There are a number of residences, particularly near the Tyarnolum Camp Site or on Bunya Street of Wirrabara Road, in the vicinity of the where the body was located."
Mt Crosby road from Hawksbury Road to Tandera Road is expected to remain closed for several more hours as police continue their investigations.

Update: unknown woman’s body, Anstead
April 30, 2012, 7:37 pm
The woman’s body has been transported from the scene for forensic examination.

Mt Crosby Road is expected to be open within the next hour.

The police forward command post has moved to the intersection of Bunya Street and Mt Crosby Road.
Detectives are appealing for anyone who lives near the Tyamolum Scout Camp, Kholo Creek Bridge, Mt Crosby Road or Bunya Street, Anstead to contact police if they saw or heard anything between 8.00pm Thursday April 19 and 7.30am Friday April 20.
Police continue to conduct searches of the area and appeal for information.

A major incident room is still in operation at Indooroopilly Police Station.
http://qpsmedia.govspace.gov.au/2012/04/30/update-unknown-womans-body-anstead/

Brookfield investigation continues
May 4, 2012, 1:11 pm
Police investigating the death of Brookfield woman Allison Baden-Clay are continuing to appeal for more information from the public.

Investigators would still like to hear from anyone who drove in the vicinity of the roundabout at the intersection of Brookfield and Moggill roads, Kenmore between 11.30pm on Thursday April 19 and 4am on Friday April 20.
“However, I’m sure many more people are out there who we haven’t heard from yet.

“We would like to hear from anyone who might have seen anything in that area between those times,” Detective Superintendent Ainsworth said.

There are no further updates in relation to the investigation at this stage.
http://qpsmedia.govspace.gov.au/2012/05/04/brookfield-investigation-continues/

Thought this might help???