Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #17

[UnfoldingTruth]

UT, this was exactly my point. If the police have no reasonable evidence, they can not make an arrest. Therefore, GBC has not been arrested for that same reason and not because the police are being busy to make it right.

This paper explains it
www.criminalcle.net.au/attachments/Arrest_paper__The_Measure_of_Last_Resort__June_2011.pdf

They do need to have sufficent evidence to make an arrest so that they can get a conviction. is what you quoted from my post. And that is the point a conviction, not just an arrest.

Grannie, we are going round in circles.. My point was they need enough evidence to get a conviction.. An arrest is one thing, but if they don't have alle the evidence they need to make it stick, they will not get the conviction, which is what they need. Police CAN NOT risk making an arrest for a murder, on the basis of reasonable suscpicion. Just quoting part of the paper you linked to...
'A reasonable suspicion involves less than a reasonable belief but more than a possibility. There must be something which would create in the mind of a reasonable person an apprehension or fear of one of the state of affairs covered by s.357E.' If Police went in an arrested on the basis of 'more than a possibility' that someone comitted a murder. The defence would shoot holes all though it and the perp would walk. Seriously, where is your fact that the police are not gathering evidence to mount a case, make an arrest and get a conviction? (I am not saying GBC is the culprit or not. But whomever committed the crime this applies to). MOO

Without knowing the law and how the police operate(I do not know if you do or not)..It is difficult for a lay person to get a full understanding of the ins and outs of a Criminal investigation, by looking in isolation at the various things you have linked to and quoted.

I don't really see the point in continuing back and forth on this topic.

 

[Nads]

I thought it was 3 cm.... Thanks everyone for outing my hopeless mathematical skills. Did ya ALL have to comment :/.

:fence::rocker::maddening::woohoo::what::truce::moo::jail::banghead:lease::woohoo::fence::moo::banghead:lease::jail::rocker::maddening::woohoo::truce:

Cos I know you love them.

 

[CaseClosed]

Can you provide a link for that :fence:

Back when I did my Uni studies, we used imperial inches (2.5416 cm), which is not exactly as the American inch (2.54 cm). ( I typed my original number wrong anyhow. :floorlaugh: ) However, I still calculate with 2.5416 when I want exact dimension conversions in a plan.

 

[mountainhigh]

The QPS have stated its a murder investigation, but not at first. Initially they told the public via the Courier Mail that they had hopes for finding ABC alive, and there seemed to be an inference that she could have fallen down an old mine shaft during her walk.

What puzzles me about this is that there have been many suggestions that the police knew they had a crime scene right from the word go, but police themselves stated initially they were treating it as a missing person case.

I still stick by the fact that what GBC told the police when he first contacted them must be entirely plausible; it was at least plausible enough for the police to state they had hopes of finding ABC alive.

Its a good point and one that has crossed my mind a few times. I think without a body they had no choice but to announce it as a missing persons case.
As for the story he gave, yea you're right it must have been entirely plausible on the day or the days after, but we still don't even know what that was yet!
1. watching TV as he went to bed at 10pm?

OR

2. didn't return from her morning walk?

I think they were even probably a little confused by the story/s to be honest!!

I might add that a crime scene doesn't necessarily mean a murder scene. IT was potentially her last known sighting so they have to shut it down and start looking for clues and as a result can't have people coming or going..

but yes I agree it was all a little 'different' to say the least.

 

[True]

I agree J-Diggerty, depression has no ultimate outcome. Depression runs deep in my family, I've had family members suicide and I have a couple of friends, one in particular who has been diagnosed with the worst mental illness known which is schizo effective bi-polar. There are people in my family that when Ill cry a lot and can't see a light, many of them deal with it logically, telling themselves it's the illness and it will pass. My friend who is very sick just got her journalism degree and she loves life so much. The amount of meds she is on is ridiculous. Peoples thresholds are VERY different and I don't think it's an issue here at all. One thing that also bewilders me about people relating the case to depression is.....3 adorable daughters and she never left a note.

If she had of, it would have been deemed a suicide fro day one.

Sorry but IMO depression has NOTHING to do with this.

 

[CaseClosed]

From what I've read in all these threads GBC is the most likely suspect but throwing a curve ball by a fellow sleuther isn't a bad thing. None of us know what happened...sadly that is only known by ABC & her killer.

Agree with throwing a curve ball, however sometimes those balls just spin out of control and they are hard to follow!

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Thanks, Hawkins. I was not alluding that if GBC were arrested it would definitely incriminate him (as the final point of the investigation). My point was and still is that he has not been arrested so far because the police do not reasonably suspect him. Moreover, I believe that they have nothing at all on him. Otherwise, they would not let him to care for the children.

Respectfully snipped..

Grannie, on that you could be right. I have always kept an open mind to all- well most possibilites, so I am not just convicting him. We were talking hypothetically on the way police work in making arrests and convictions. And whilst you could very well be right that they don't suspect him- we don't know what information and evidence they have, it does not automatically mean that because they have not arrested him that they don't think he did it.. 2 different things really. Thats where evidence comes into play.

 

[grannie]

Seriously, where is your fact that the police are not gathering evidence to mount a case, make an arrest and get a conviction?

Other murder cases, where the police happily arrested a suspect but could not sustain the conviction. Gordon Wood, for example.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Caroline_Byrne"]Death of Caroline Byrne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Mothergoose]

Mothergoose. I understand what you have said but at Allisons funeral her sister said that as a loving devoted wife Allison supported Gerard in their partnership in marriage 'until the day she died'.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ating-the-killer/story-e6freoof-1226353394847

I totally totally respect what was said and I do believe it. All I'm saying is it IS possible and that women (especially) who have affairs rarely tell anyone not even their closest friend for fear of judgement etc. ,especially if the affair contradicts all they stand for .The tell tail sign I witnessed with the women I knew was that all of a sudden life was OK .Their appearace improved dramatically and they sort of distanced themselves from aquaintences. I never judged them....they were both really nice ladies. MOO !!!!

 

[True]

Nads, are you trying to send me completely crazy?

 

[marlywings]

IMO The point here is that GBC has not been arrested because when the Police charge him they want the public to be assured that the charges will stick in a court of law. They also must see the case from a Criminal Defence point of view and have an answer and evidence for every possible scenario that is put forward by the Defence Team as an alternative chance of occurring so as to create doubt. The Police will have heaps on him and until they have exhausted every angle to extract every bit of evidence against him they will not charge him. He will also at this very time be being closely monitored to prevent any attempt to flee. This would be the only way the Police would charge him now. Sit tight, Police & GBC have a very special date coming.

GBC by his very nature of refusing to thank the SES, Police, and other volunteers for their time and effort to find Allison plus his refusal to give Police a formal statement and his cowardly demeanour to not only hide behind a lawyer but to hide behind a barrister as well is highly indicitive of his lack of care or will to have somebody held responsible for this crime - because GBC himself is responsible for the crime. Police and everyone else know it. Just waiting for everything to line up for the courts to say it.

If a person is a single parent as GBC has made himself, it is not actually a crime to care for your children without having a criminal conviction. Be rest assured that when the judge pronounces GUILTY then believe me he will have no input to the childrens care. He is no longer a POI because he has moved up to SUSPECT not exactly how he wished to move up in the world, nonetheless it is still an upward move which might bring him some joy. If he wasnt a suspect Police would be more than happy enough to say so instead of no comment.

It is hard to believe that anyone outside of GBCs circle ie. family and friends could look at this case objectively and not come up with GBC as the prime suspect.

Hope you don't mind Sheerluck Holmes but I want to bring your post right up to front page...it is a brilliant post!!!...thankyou

I'll sit next to this post & watch some throw their "confuse & attempt to create doubt "opinions"" into the ring....those posts won't work on little marlyo

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Other murder cases, where the police happily arrested a suspect but could not sustain the conviction. Gordon Wood, for example.
Death of Caroline Byrne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

YES AND HE WAS AQUITTED!

just because the Police did something in one case does not mean it was the right thing or necessarily it will follow they will do the same again if they learn from things.

Please can we leave the subject be now? I respect your right to an opinion and any and everyone elses. I have not been stating as fact GBC is guilt as many who have seen my posts would attest. But I don't see how pushing this point is getting us anywhere. Its taking away from debating the facts and discussing what we know.

Edit: I see you have edited your post from arrested on suspicion, to could not sustain the conviction. And that is the point. We do not want that to happen in this case. The Police would be doing everything they can to avoid that.(no matter who the Perp is)

 

[Nads]

As your comment was right after my post I am just guessing it was for me. I do not wish to provoke anyone just give an opinion which might explain why GBC is walking around as if everything is O.K...I have know 2 absolutely delightful women (good mothers ,upstanding members of their church etc. etc.) who have had affairs because their marriage was going down the drain.
My point being we All are capable of the seemingly impossibe behaviour under the right circumstances. No one is perfect. 'There but for the grace of God go I'. :truce:

I thought they were referring to grannie.

 

[linette]

A rose by any other name ... is still a rose.

 

[True]

I agree J-Diggerty, depression has no ultimate outcome. Depression runs deep in my family, I've had family members suicide and I have a couple of friends, one in particular who has been diagnosed with the worst mental illness known which is schizo effective bi-polar. There are people in my family that when Ill cry a lot and can't see a light, many of them deal with it logically, telling themselves it's the illness and it will pass. My friend who is very sick just got her journalism degree and she loves life so much. The amount of meds she is on is ridiculous. Peoples thresholds are VERY different and I don't think it's an issue here at all. One thing that also bewilders me about people relating the case to depression is.....3 adorable daughters and she never left a note.

If she had of, it would have been deemed a suicide fro day one.

Sorry but IMO depression has NOTHING to do with this.

 

[Sprinter]

At the risk of sounding pedantic 125mm is actually five inches.

Correct
I have always been told that when I measure our rain gauge 25mm = 1 inch



Over an inch of rain fell on the site that afternoon, making the whole event a ... England and Wales had 125mm (5 inches) of rain

www.independent.co.uk/.../play-safe-take-a-rain-check-1168718.htm.

 

[CaseClosed]

I'm still sitting on the fence too. Have been with this forum since day one and read every comment I could keep up with, and I'm still on the fence. The main reason being that the Courier Mail is not making a lot of sense, and the facts which we know are very few and amount IMO to circumstantial evidence only at this stage. There has been a lot of gut feeling and emotional posts about it must be GBC who did it. While I understand those gut feeling responses, I still feel that sitting on the fence is the only obvious place you can be. Just my opinion.

But I do think it's a shame that many people in this forum will criticise someone who wants to have the opinion that GBC "may or may not be" guilty.

I believe the idea is that if someone has a different theory, one should put it up for discussion, with all the details. However, some theories are not even put up here at all, they are just some random assertions without any explanation and without even saying it is their opinion. IMO this is what gets frustrating for some.

 

[Nads]

Nads, are you trying to send me completely crazy?

I saw a post you deleted earlier today re emoticons. Lucky you deleted it I say.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Hi all
I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be respected for their own beliefs. If we don't agree with it we should leave it alone. This is not a jury panel where the majority are trying to convince one or two jurors to change views. In saying that I also can't understand the need to try to convince the majority to believe otherwise. It actually just seems that some people like to argue for the sake of it or for fun. I don't understand the need to deliberately provoke others. But of course, that's just 'my opinion'
Cheers everyone

I agree. I have stated many times and in recent times on a 'discussion' with a poster. WE all have the right to an opinion. Which is different from fact(an opinion that is). I know many have not necessarily agreed with my stance at times. ANd I respect everyones opinions. SOmetimes If your thought goes against the majority, it can be a difficult sell, lol.. But overall, I have found most posters here to be genuinly concerned about the case and trying to get a grasp on it. Most respect each others opinions, though at times disagreement arise.

That is the nature of a forum and just because we disagree doesn't mean we don't respect the poster. I don't want to convince anyone but I am interested in their opinions.
Cheers

sorry was going to say more and my brain went awol!

 

[jubillee]

A rose by any other name ... is still a rose.

But does it still smell so sweet?