Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #19

[minni]

It seems to me that it is illogical to bring into this extraneous and entirely improbable characters, such as bikies, triads, a random stranger, a completely fictitious and unsupported figure such as a mysterious and suddenly cranky 'lover ' of Allison, and weave fabric out of imaginary threads.

Occams Razor is well worth applying in those circumstances. " one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.'


There are quite enough real and solid entities existing in the matter of Allisons hideous murder without cluttering up the stage with carefully constructed ephmera.

good post Trooper.. still, the police have indicated they believe Allison knew her killer, so it would make sense and be reasonable to wonder about Allison's possible friends and acquaintances. We haven't heard anything really about her life or her friends, mostly we hear about GBC's life, his friends and 'acquaintances'. I wonder why this is so?

I believe she may have had other aspects in her life besides her children, work related events and her career direction towards Pathways,

Although the bikie's and triads were extraneous and improbable, there was some tenuous connection to real estate dealings and it was mentioned in line with very factual reports that GBC was in financial hardship. Not completely and entirely improbable, IMO.

As for an angry lover, this I believe must be pure and total imagination, but still based on the possibility that Allison knew her killer, and the fact that we don't really know who Allison knew, or spent time with.

Ive posted about Occam's Razor quite a bit in the early threads, so I completely agree with you, and your post is well worth keeping in mind

 

[Mothergoose]

Blaming the victim?
If someone was knocking off half of brookfield it doesn't mean they deserved to be killed and anyone who thinks differently needs their head read.
Nobody will know for sure at this point in time whether this is even the case. If she was, good on her I say, hopefully she was happy doing it. I think it may have come out by now so I am not heading in that direction in the slightest.
As such, if it is either true or untrue, it has no relevance to her murder IMO. none whatsoever.

I agree 100% with what you say . The only relevance this scenario:waitasec: would bear is that if Allison did have a close male friend he would have to be looked at as a potential suspect as well. ...i.e. married man , having second thoughts, wants out of the situation etc. etc. just a thought on your comment only......IMO

 

[kiwi50]

The wife made no statements publicly for 6 weeks after her husbands murder. But she was innocent..Food for thought for those who feel GBC has something to hide for not speaking up publicly

Absolutely no similarity, she co operated with the police, was seven months pregnant, totally distraught by the loss of her husband, the whole country could see that.
If you want to see genuine grief, google her.
She was in tears even yesterday, two years later, while giving evidence in the trial.

 

[Keentoknow]

Ooh thanks mr fireworks ...this is very interesting

Will be great the day the Dickie families pledge comes true.

Hope you have your crackers ready marlywings.......could be any day now.:jail:

:bicycle: on my way to get crackers for marlywings and others.




:fireworks2:

 

[jubillee]

Yes and if the police did attend the house on Thursday night for a domestic, wouldn't GBC be the obvious suspect after Allison's disappearance?

How dumb would you have to be to commit a crime after the police have connected you with domestic violence with the person who ended up missing and deceased?

How many of you are thinking outside the square and considering someone else besides GBC has done this to Allison?

MOO

(Just leaving Occam's Razor at the barbershop for a mo)

I have an open mind to it.. A lot of the stuff that makes BGC "look guilty" is just innuendo and gossip.
I have more of a wait and see what turns up attitude.

 

[LauraMars]

I can't stop thinking about GBC in the infamous interview, when asked if Allison was upset and he said "no" then quickly deflected. If this is true about the police attending earlier in the night, then clearly she would have been upset. Sorry but IMO he isn't an honest man (I know I know, doesn't make him a murderer etc etc etc....)

Yeah Thinking, that bit always got to me too, he just said "no" and then changed the subject.

Also, I have listened to that clip so many times and I swear he says "They've got 3 children" but it could be just poor sound quality or my hearing.

IMOO

 

[Mani]

Blaming the victim?
If someone was knocking off half of brookfield it doesn't mean they deserved to be killed and anyone who thinks differently needs their head read.
Nobody will know for sure at this point in time whether this is even the case. If she was, good on her I say, hopefully she was happy doing it. I think it may have come out by now so I am not heading in that direction in the slightest.
As such, if it is either true or untrue, it has no relevance to her murder IMO. none whatsoever.

MH, you are such a big mountain and I can't jump over you and I can't get around you so I am just going to shout up to you -----------

MHhhhhhh - no-one deserves to be murdered but people are.........a woman was killed with a box cutter because she made her husband angry............

Please come down the mountain and help me think outside the square as I need your really really good logic......... I am really lonely here and I am probably going to have pies pelted at me I know but please come and help me think outside the square

 

[mountainhigh]

I agree 100% with what you say . The only relevance this scenario:waitasec: would bear is that if Allison did have a close male friend he would have to be looked at as a potential suspect as well. ...i.e. married man , having second thoughts, wants out of the situation etc. etc. just a thought on your comment only......IMO

Realise the intended relevance but not a chance!

 

[minni]

'Not I', said the little red dragon!

But if you ask Minni the Minx, it will alternate depending on what day of the week it is!

Today is Saturday, so I say, 'its time to look outside the square people...GBC would be the stupidest man alive to do that after the police were there'

I think the police have the effect of calming down people when they turn up at your door step...even if he was going off, when the boys in blue rock up at your door, you take ten, and if you don't THEY TAKE YOU SOMEWHERE YOU CAN COOL OFF.......
that is my opinion on this lovely Sautrday....tomorrow.....well tomorrow is another day, but like I said before, I am staying on this bandwagon till the wheels fall off ;D

 

[Nads]

If you are going to go into possible scenarios where the victim had a romantic involvement with another man, then you'd have to include another man's wife as a possible suspect.

I for one don't think A would have time for any of that. Three girls with extracurricular activities, a husband who was obviously not home a lot.

 

[sheldor]

Absolutely no similarity, she co operated with the police, was seven months pregnant, totally distraught by the loss of her husband, the whole country could see that.
If you want to see genuine grief, google her.
She was in tears even yesterday, two years later, while giving evidence in the trial.

Yes, she was genuinely grieving and that is clear. But the point is, some people did suspect her of being involved regardless of her grief. There was speculation in some quarters that she was having an affair and that a jealous lover bumped Scott off.

Ewen MacDonald, the man charged with the murder, gave off all the appearances of grieving as well. He was a pallbearer at Scott's funeral. I guess we can't read too much into people's behaviour even when it contradicts what we expect them to do in certain situations.

Also from the same case: after the killing and before the arrest, one of the reaons it was such big news is that reports were that Scott Guy was well-liked and had no enemies. But it transpires that someone said in Court that he "pissed a lot of people off". Again, what we are hearing now about the Baden-Clay case could well be contradicted when/if there is a trial.

 

[Fuskier]

No way would you bring others on board.
Too risky and need to protect all 3.
Parents would never agree to tell anyone else.

That may be your view, but there may be other views. It is possible OW may already have been at the house that night.

 

[Berry]

Indromum and I placed some flowers on the bridge today, from all of us.

Thank you to you both xxxxxx

Such kind and caring gals, we send our love a little closer through you now. They are so pretty, just like Allison

RIP Allison xxxxxx :takeabow:

 

[Nads]

Thanks Keen To Know for that document re listening and observation devices. I found this quote from it to be interesting.

<<Evidence obtained from a surveillance device may prove invaluable as an investigative tool and assist in planning further overt police investigations, but may not be used by the prosecution during a committal or trial>>

 

[Nads]

Re being a pall-bearer, I wouldn't expect that any husband would be a pall-bearer at his wife's funeral

My dad has had two wives die (of natural causes!) and he has neither been a pall-bearer, nor a eulogy-giver at either funeral.

 

[DunnoZo]

minni, I agree that it would be stupid to do it intentionally after the police visit, but in the heat of the moment, you wouldn't be thinking rationally.. A push that turned into something more...

Kinda off topic, but I got really mad once and stormed out of my house with my keys and phone. It was at night, and I am close to Brookfield. The streets were empty, and I'm a woos, so i drove to the nearest Tavern and sat in the parking lot for hours.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

Today is Saturday, so I say, 'its time to look outside the square people...GBC would be the stupidest man alive to do that after the police were there'

I think the police have the effect of calming down people when they turn up at your door step...even if he was going off, when the boys in blue rock up at your door, you take ten, and if you don't THEY TAKE YOU SOMEWHERE YOU CAN COOL OFF.......
that is my opinion on this lovely Sautrday....tomorrow.....well tomorrow is another day, but like I said before, I am staying on this bandwagon till the wheels fall off ;D

Oh, :hand: It's Friday night here.....:what:

 

[Rational]

Posted on 17 May 1.20 pm

Just to keep my sanity somewhat (and maybe make it less painful for Kimster and Nurse Bee) I have made a chronology of what I think we know definitely (ie that can be substantiated by either the police, public statements by friends and or other links)
Please feel free to add subtract or correct.

April 19
-GBC was due to attend Kenmore CC meeting at 7 am. No conformation if he attended.
-around 9 am GBCmade purchase at chemist. Chemist made statement to police
-Cross country race atchildren's school at which both GBCand ABCattended
- ABC goes to hairdresser stating that she has the night off as children are at sleepover 'hairdresser interviewed by police.
- ABC speaks to best friend over phone and says she will drop in on Friday after Pathways conference
-10 pm Argument overheard by neighbours, scream and muffled scream heard, dog barking loudly

April 20
-witness sees two 4wds, one white and smaller blue one , white one with parking lights, bluenose full lights, at around 4am near Anstead 2 km from Kholo Creek Bridge
- 7.30 am GBC reports ABC missing to police
-police declare crime scene and impound both vehicles
-GBC engages lawyer
- GBC observed with scratches to face and torso

April 22
- GBCcrashes friend's car

April 23
Police declare GBC a POI along with a number of other people close to the couple

April 24
Heavy rain Greater Brisbane area

April 22- 25
-GBC engages barrister

April 25
- police spent 4 hrs interviewing a woman believed to be a former colleague of GBC. This woman subsequently hires a lawyer
- Police are urging anyone who saw the family cars if ABC and GBC on the night she vanished to come forward

April 26
Police search a house in Durness St Kenmore and executed a search warrant at a business.

April 30-now
-body of Allison found near Kholo Creek bridge on bank
- police keep asking anyone who saw anything suspicious near roundabout between 11 pm on April 19 and 4.30 am April 20 to contact them.
-Police say Allison knew her killer and possibly had an accomplice.
On 5 May police say that they now know that ABC was murdered before her body was dumped in a creek

Re mobile phone, it was reported that the mobile phone,which disappeared when ABC did, eventually ran flat however, before it did, police were able to triangulate it narrowing the location to Brookfield, Kenmore and Pullenvale.

Thank you to everyone who commented, greaat collective effort, but I will take individual responsibility for any mistakes and will try and correct!'
__________________
The more I know the more I don't know
Last edited by Rational; 05-17-2012 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Include additions from other posters
Just to remind us this was a post pulled together by a number of posters contributing to what was known in thread 10. I thought it may be useful to repost.

 

[mountainhigh]

MH, you are such a big mountain and I can't jump over you and I can't get around you so I am just going to shout up to you -----------

MHhhhhhh - no-one deserves to be murdered but people are.........a woman was killed with a box cutter because she made her husband angry............

Please come down the mountain and help me think outside the square as I need your really really good logic......... I am really lonely here and I am probably going to have pies pelted at me I know but please come and help me think outside the square

ha ha, thanks Mani, don't shout up to me! you have to 'mount' something in your life I hope..... LOL

REfer to Case Closed a few times over the last few months.
This will turn out to be pretty simple (whilst evil) and nothing too complicated and no 'squares to be thought outside of' in my opinion.
They just need to prove it, and admittedly whilst I thought they were just taking their time for completeness, I am now beginning to wonder whether this is not the case. Word on the beat and in legal circles is that they know 100% who committed the crime, the time and how it all happened from absolute start to finish..
no witnesses, no weapon used, lack of useful or compelling forensic results and a very clean crime scene is just making it hard for them to be able to make an arrest and subsequently for the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law.
your work in many ways is done here I am afraid fellow sleuthers...
But we still come back obviously and live in hope that today is the day!!

 

[Trooper]

the point about the imagined and constructed suddenly enraged lover of Allison that is proposed as a possible suspect is that it is never substantiated.. this mystery figure flits about, never nailed as to which gender it is..man or woman, height, weight, occupation, history, sighting, record, gossip, previous form, and most amazingly, considering the emotions this activity brings out, Our Boy Gerard has never pointed a finger in that direction. Or any other. Neither has the diagnostic wizard, Olivia, who stated quite firmly and straight faced that Allison 'was depressed'... odd for someone with a Merlin like lover, who appears and disappears like that bloke was able to.

Depression would be the last thing, I would think, under that circumstance. Stuck with Gerard and his ridiculous horizontal adventures, his fiscal nincompoopery, the in laws, she would have been as happy as a clam, if such a creature existed. The holders of this scenario never point out the location of this amorphous being's residence, suburb, car, links, meetings, assignations, friends of friends.. HIS or HER friends... nothing , nothing, nothing.. just ... nothing. This is probably why it is discarded, really. Its simply unsustainable in the cold light of day.