Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #20

[Toowong(s)]

Okay, what could be the reasons for using two cars:

- One breaks down en route and needs help from second person
- One carries body to simulate suicide at the bridge, second used to return home (but we know this didn't happen)
- One carries body, the second one meets up with first at the roundabout to continue on to the bride
- One is chasing after the other one

Any others?

CC, do we know for sure that the Captiva AND Prado are suspected of being out and about together at the same time? In calling for sightings of the two vehicles, maybe the QPS are not sure which vehicle went where and when? I'm not sure it is suggested they were in convoy, as such?

PS some very touching stories from posters tonight. Sorry to hear of such a variety of horrible experiences, by so many posters as well. I really don't know what else to say except thankyou for having the courage to share.

And if I can be permitted to end on a lighter note, I guarantee dogs will bark at anything. My beloved dog (RIP Dec 2011) particularly like barking at takeaway delivery men (even 6 or 7 doors up), and of course possums.

 

[CaseClosed]

CC, do we know for sure that the Captiva AND Prado are suspected of being out and about together at the same time? In calling for sightings of the two vehicles, maybe the QPS are not sure which vehicle went where and when? I'm not sure it is suggested they were in convoy, as such?

PS some very touching stories from posters tonight. Sorry to hear of such a variety of horrible experiences, by so many posters as well. I really don't know what else to say except thankyou for having the courage to share.

And if I can be permitted to end on a lighter note, I guarantee dogs will bark at anything. My beloved dog (RIP Dec 2011) particularly like barking at takeaway delivery men (even 6 or 7 doors up), and of course possums.

No, we don't. One white 4wd and one smaller blue 4wd were seen by a witness near the bridge. It could be unrelated or it could be the Prado and the Captiva or the Prado and someone else's car. We don't really know. But I can't recall if they stated the direction in which the cars were travelling, which would make a difference as to why both cars were together (if all is true). IMO.

 

[Mani]

I can confirm that. Dogs bark at strangers. Not always, but if they do, it has to be a stranger.

That is true, dogs do bark at strangers but they also bark at possums and they bark too at their neighbours. They might know the neighbours but they still bark at them.

Dogs bark from fear, boredom or to give a warning, as in a stranger approaching their territory.

I have lived next to dogs who bark at me when I go into my garden and I have lived next to dogs who don't bark at me - it is down to the personality of the dog...........and we don't know Scraps personality. IMO

 

[Mani]

With due respect to CC and Scraps and me being pedantic... Again. A dog barking at a cat or the postman for that matter is still the dog barking at someone in their territory. Scaps could have been barking at the pesky possum in his yard. As an owner of previously 2 foxies, I could tell by them if they were barking at an intruder or the possum. Foxies are good guard dogs in that manner because they alert the owner without biting.

I agree. Dogs are territorial and some will bark at lots of things.

 

[Mani]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinders
With due respect to CC and Scraps and me being pedantic... Again. A dog barking at a cat or the postman for that matter is still the dog barking at someone in their territory. Scaps could have been barking at the pesky possum in his yard. As an owner of previously 2 foxies, I could tell by them if they were barking at an intruder or the possum. Foxies are good guard dogs in that manner because they alert the owner without biting.[\quote]

And Flinders if you could tell the difference than maybe you should extend to the owners of Scraps (what a great name btw) the same courtesy as you give yourself, namely knowing when your dog is barking at a possum or an intruder.

Rational it would have been good to hear from the owner as to what they thought Scraps was barking at as most owners know the different barks their dogs have.

 

[Mani]

I'm many pages behind, but just wanted to say that in my experience, the police did not check on me when called to dv dispute.

Exhusband and I got in major dispute (1st major one ever), he wouldn't let me leave, neighbours heard and called police. Before they could arrive (I didn't know they were called) I managed to get my phone back and call parents to come get me, called his parents to come to house (I was worried about him) he left then.
Parents come got me, and later I got a call from my inlaws to tell me when they got to house they picked him up from corner store, went to house and then police showed up. They told the police my parents had come to take me to their home. And that was it. Inlaw said that police said if I want to press charges to call them and she gave me the number.
The police never checked my welfare though. They just took my ex's and his parents word that I was ok and with my parents.

I'm just sharing this to show that in my personal experience the police may not check the welfare of both partners if they are told everything is now ok.


Edit to add: starting to catch up on posts and see this has actually been discussed alot tonight. Sorry!

Thank you - your experience shows that the police did not follow through to check up with you personally, that you were ok.

 

[jubillee]

Has the suggested DV going on the Baden-Clay home been substantiated by anyone in authority?

 

[Profplum]

If NBC was a spotter, and there were two cars, then does that mean there'd have to be 3 people involved? That seems like a lot, and leaves the children unsupervised. Hmmm. Sounds messy.

If NBC was a spotter at the roundabout wouldnt it then make sense to have another spotter past the bridge where allison was found.

 

[Jesstah]

I can confirm that. Dogs bark at strangers. Not always, but if they do, it has to be a stranger.

ummm wow if only that were true.....my dog barks at me every time i come home....and yes this is my first post....i have been reading this thread for a long time now and i live local to brookfield....nothing to do with my dog barking at me, but just introducing myself....i have plenty more theories and things to say and i will start to do so now I've broken the ice with grannie's 'dogs only bark at strangers' comment....

anyone thought about this theory....maybe after years of being mistreated it was alison that was having an affair at the time of her death....whether GBC was or not is irrelevant to this theory....its known that his affair was not a secret.....so maybe they had been trying counselling but she had fallen in love with someone else....maybe she did go for 'a walk' that night or a drive and he followed her....discovered her betraying him (even though he had done the same thing) and confronted her about it and things got out of hand.....this is just a theory....
i am convinced this murder was not pre meditated and we all know the police say it was someone she knew....but everyone is so quick to look just at GBC's affair and a whole bunch of things that would be motive for HIS murder, not hers IMO,.... i haven't found to much discussion about what could have actually driven a husband/father to kill his wife/mother of children in a random attack like that....i really think its possible that she had a lover also and that has been the catalyst in the DV....because his ego couldn't handle the thought of her with another man especially as a retaliation to his own affair....the only thing that puts a spanner in this for me is that no doubt the 'lover' would have no doubt came forward....but maybe not for fear of being a suspect??...the angle here though is that she was either going to finally leave him or was in some way finally being independent and strong and dictating her own life, not putting up with his **** basically. most control freaks don't like it when that happens....once again its just food for thought...

in regards to the police going to the BC residence on the thursday night, like i said i live locally and i hadn't heard anything like that and i think that we would have heard about it in the media....if it did happen and the police were called and didn't do there jobs properly which resulted in a murder, and they knew this, do you think they would really then still allow GBC to be in charge of the kids???....to then possible have something happen to them???....i really don't think so...if they were that certain that he did it they would keep him away from the kids IMO.....

anyway thats all from me for now for my first post...thanks for all the amazing and interesting threads...

 

[Makara]

I've re-read this article again, published by the Courier Mail on 23 April, three days after Allison was reported missing. Some things stand out for me (BBM below).

Brittany Vonow and Alison Sandy From: The Courier-Mail April 23, 2012 2:41PM

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ul-plea-for-help/story-e6freoof-1226336283974

Quote:
Police investigating her disappearance said it was a traumatic time for her children who were very close to their mother and had not seen her since Friday morning.Unquote:

So according to this article and as quoted by police, Allison's daughters had not seen their mother since Friday morning. How is that the girls saw their mother on the Friday morning? Does this mean they were in fact at home on the Thursday night and Allison was alive on the Friday morning?

Quote:
They wouldn’t comment on whether foul play could be involved but said the search had been extensive and they had used helicopters and infra-red technology.Unquote:

IMO this is where the story was borne that Allison's body didn't have any evidence of foul play. The CM has just run with this story throughout due to the lack of any further information from police and it has now become 'fact'. IMO it is sloppy and lazy reporting on the CM's part.

Quote:
It is believed she left her home before 6am Friday morning to go for her regular walk.Unquote:

It is believed that Allison left her home before 6am Friday morning. Where did the CM glean this information from? They are not quoting the police here. IMO they are going on hearesay and once again it is sloppy reporting, not investigative reporting. I realise that the media, including the CM are under an embargo but IMO it's about time that the so called investigative reporters at the Courier Mail lifted their game.

BBM.

MOO.

 

[Curiousasacat]

There's references in past threads to neighbours having heard disturbances in the past at the BC home. That could be consistent with the counselling the couple were allegedly undergoing, if it involved forced nightly discussions as a prev poster said. A jilted/hurt wife trying to get compassion or sympathy/commitment from a cheating egotist (which might be what GBC was IMO) would likely cause some shouting.

Neighbours have definitely given a lot of information to police. From Day One.

I don't have evidence of who killed Allison but I can assure you GBC is no 'silver tongue' from any reports. If anyone thinks police have been mislead or confused by something GBC has said, this is something you can be sure hasn't happened.

A year or two might pass before charges are laid, particularly where a connection to an accomplice is being investigated. They've got to get this right, first and only time. A couple of months isn't reason to panic that the investigators have nothing ... They have p-l-e-n-t-y.

My guess is that the eventual case will involve a son and father, underlying financial motivation, heat of the moment anger/confusion, then panic, coupled with unexpected witnesses and a lack of support from people who might be expected to help the perpetrators when everything comes out. Completely JMO. I have no evidence who the murderer/accomplice is.

Another excellent post Keyboredom thank you. Your theory is exactly what I think happened in this case.
It does sadden me to read " A year or two might pass before charges are laid" though. I can't wrap my head around a man possibly being guilty of murdering his wife,mother of his 3 children being able to walk around free for a year or two.

"Unexpected witnesses" certainly stands out, can you imagine the panic if in fact someone did see NBC at the bus stop. Would certainly cause enough panic to discard what was perhaps being the current "plan". A quick plan B would need to be devised.

"A lack of support from people who might be expected to help the perpetrators" Not sure what you mean about this statement?
I would imagine that if TM or any of the "Baden-Clay-Clan" had "rolled" wouldn't their testimony be enough for an arrest?

Keyboredom, sorry to single out your post but I take your posts in high regard,just as I am about to quit this thread, I see a few sensible posts again and I keep on reading.
There is one question I would like your theory on and that is the rumour of the bathwater? Thanks again, curious.

 

[Fuskier]

As she was a neighbour to Baden-Clays, Scraps owner was adament it was something going on in their garden and Scraps was relentlessly still way down the back and barking..........at 'someone burying the phone/ planting the phone in a tree'......like that or a similar scenario I read .

Morning all. I had not seen this post BERRY before now. What a solid speculation. Was Scraps barking relentlessly because someone was down there burying something(s)? e.g. a mobile phone? Has this information be passed on to the Police? It could just be important. If someone has a high powered metal detector, you might be able to locate it. If the mobile phone was thrown down there, and it was ringing, this would make Scraps bark incessantly. MOO.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Good point R!! I feel like we might be getting somewhere. So Scraps owners came forward to say their dog was acting/barking out of the ordinary ie. not a cat. So can we assume that an intruder was in Scraps property and he wasn't happy. Who was the intruder.

I once suggested the throwing of a mobile phone cause cause scraps to bark?? MOO

How funny this dog has notoriety!

 

[Blacklodge]

I'm sitting here at the Kenmore Plaza about to start work on this public holiday and I've just noticed a sign in the window of Allison's hairdressers. It is advertising for a 'full time hairdresser needed'. Interesting. I wonder if Allison's hairdresser has left due to the case, interviews, or perhaps fear? Perhaps it's just a coincidence. Just wanted to note it.

 

[Fuskier]

Berry, is the "crime scene" where Allison was found/disposed? I would have thought that has the "crime scene" was where she was actually murdered? I guess it could be both. And how do you know that no evidence of perp has been found on Allison or near the site she was found/disposed? I'm not doubting you - just dying for some new info (even though it sounds disappointing) and also interested in where you are getting your info from?

Good question BELLGIRL. I second that. How is it 'known' that QPS can not link the Perp(s) with the crime scene? This is rumour as the Police are not releasing their evidence until during Criminal Court proceedings when we will learn the evidence. There may be two crime scenes, one at the home and one at the bridge.

 

[Curiousasacat]

I'm sitting here at the Kenmore Plaza about to start work on this public holiday and I've just noticed a sign in the window of Allison's hairdressers. It is advertising for a 'full time hairdresser needed'. Interesting. I wonder if Allison's hairdresser has left due to the case, interviews, or perhaps fear? Perhaps it's just a coincidence. Just wanted to note it.

I hope the hairdresser didn't get fired because of what was written on here : (

 

[grannie]

That is true, dogs do bark at strangers but they also bark at possums and they bark too at their neighbours. They might know the neighbours but they still bark at them.

The question is who is a stranger to a dog? Anybody who is not a member of the pack and the closest environment. Mistreated and neglected dogs can bark at a wider variety of moving objects, of course. But I must admit, my opinion may be biased because I have personally dealt only with German Shepherds. My dogs never barked without a valid reason.

In cases where dogs vocalise to communicate with the owner or family members (like saying hello), I would not refer to barking. To me it's not a real barking. It is a different type of sound, as in cases when dogs are attention seeking or bored. So if the BC's neighbour addressed his dog's barking as of warning/alert type (if he made a point of it), then there is no point to meditate over other types of dog barking.

 

[Thinking]

Okay, what could be the reasons for using two cars:

- One breaks down en route and needs help from second person
- One carries body to simulate suicide at the bridge, second used to return home (but we know this didn't happen)
- One carries body, the second one meets up with first at the roundabout to continue on to the bride
- One is chasing after the other one

Any others?

- Allison is picked up by GBC after hairdresser and they have dinner locally, her car left in plaza car park. Dispute at dinner, somehow and somewhere after dinner she is killed and placed in captiva which GBC was driving (sounding far fetched sorry but this two car thing has bugged me from the start and am trying to think of every possible scenario). Perhaps he even got so angry at dinner he just drove her home and didn't let her get her car, or they were both angry and forgot about it. Then after more arguing Allison died at home? GBC panics and calls accomplice, accomplice says pick me up on way through, drop me to her car and Ill follow you....

Sorry this isn't working is it - doesn't account for Allison's change of clothing and also, why would they not just leave Allison's car in car park and pick it up after it was all over...ok cc I don't think I can add anything sensible to your theories, you've covered them I think, unless anyone else can add anything?

 

[Thinking]

Okay, what could be the reasons for using two cars:

- One breaks down en route and needs help from second person
- One carries body to simulate suicide at the bridge, second used to return home (but we know this didn't happen)
- One carries body, the second one meets up with first at the roundabout to continue on to the bride
- One is chasing after the other one

Any others?

Your second and fourth theories here are the only ones that fit with the two family cars being seen, right (as opposed to a GBC car and someone else's car)?

 

[grannie]

In regards to this case, IMO the papers only write about what they are allowed to by QPS at the moment. Why do you think it could not be the husband?

I do not think he could not be. I think it should not be only him considered by the investigators. Even the police usually have several different versions and then rule them out one by one. Of course, if the aim is to find the real murderer.