Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #8

[Neuromancer]

A question for Neuromancer. You talked about strangulation http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7913621&postcount=649 and having to keep going once the person becomes unconscience. If someone was to stop strangulation when the other person goes unconscience, how long does it take to regain consciencesness? Just putting out the theory that she may have come to, in the car, going around the round-a-bout.

Depends on exact injury/circumstances, but in the happiest scenario, if you were prevented from breathing and passed out from lack of oxygen to the brain and then breathing was able to resume, you'd wake up pretty quickly, once your blood oxygen level was back to normal. (Bit like when you faint, you fall over, then more blood goes to your brain while horizontal and you regain consciousness).

BUT also depends on other things like how long it goes on (longer without O2 = brain tissue injury), pressure changes around brain can cause specific problems, strangling might damage throat structures to impair breathing even once the source of strangulation is removed, effects from other injuries, etc.

So, if you don't come to soon after pressure is removed, the chances of some nasty damage having occurred is much higher.

 

[CJ60]

You're no more nuts than the rest of us *twitch*

Haha - you reap what you sow!

If I hadn't joined this forum we wouldn't be having this weird conversation!

Thanks for confirming I am officially a fruit loop!

 

[Sleuthilicious]

Long time reader, first time poster

I'm trying to understand why there would be a 2 car convoy? Why take 2 cars? Surely you wouldn't take the easily identifiable C21 white 4wd?

Hmmm....

IMO!

 

[Makara]

I said much the same as Makara, as did others. Imo, it's not that many of us have fallen for anything, because most women at some time in their lives have been on the receiving end of violence or threats of same from sooky men and we know how vicious they can be, young or old

My reason for speculating that he wouldn't choose to get his hands dirty is based on his wimpy, precious, hand-wringing performance in his one 'appeal' for ABC's return. It's the sense of entitlement, I think, that suggested to me he'd get someone else to do his dirty work

OR (and this is often the case) very possibly those around him would automatically do his dirty work for him -- quite possibly because he surrounds himself with those sort of people

They say those who've been raised in close contact with narcissists later enter relationships with other narcissists without even realising it. As if they've been 'moulded' to cater to narcissists because the ability to do so was their primary survival mechanism as children. It's also said that narcissists can spot these people a mile away and move in to exploit this 'natural resource'. If any of the above is true, it makes sense the POI would have a willing group of slaves at his disposal, all convinced they cater to him because of his 'wonderful qualities'

That said, I can certainly envisage the POI twisted with rage and inflicting pain. Mummy's boys are often riven with rage against women, disguised as adoration and 'respect'

So it's not that I don't believe he's capable. More a feeling he'd delegate the task like a tin-pot emperor

Not saying that's necessarily how it went. Worms are certainly wont to turn in vicious violence. Experienced it myself

Thanks Laserdisc, my point exactly. GBC doesn't have me fooled for a minute. I've also experienced the worm turning so to speak.

 

[laserdisc10]

Long time reader, first time poster

I'm trying to understand why there would be a 2 car convoy? Why take 2 cars? Surely you wouldn't take the easily identifiable C21 white 4wd?

Hmmm....

IMO!

Welcome !

Good questions to which I have no answers, other than to attempt to be flippant in saying maybe they're used to travelling in safari mode

Sorry. I don't know. Maybe they've got away with so much in the past that they feel fireproof? Maybe a change of plan with one party refusing to participate without the other/s and with no time to arrange a less recognisable vehicle? Maybe they're just idiots? Wish I knew


(edit: MOO )

 

[KG1]

Long time reader, first time poster

I'm trying to understand why there would be a 2 car convoy? Why take 2 cars? Surely you wouldn't take the easily identifiable C21 white 4wd?

Hmmm....

IMO!

Vehicles coming from different directions and meeting up to form 2 car convoy, perhaps near roundabout. Yes, unlikely to take the C21 vehicle, but may have lights down to minimise identification of C21 vehicle if using that. Maybe lights too bright for area and driver in front.

 

[KG1]

I am off to bed all. Goodnight and sleep tight. We shall see what the morrow brings.

 

[Neuromancer]

There are many things I find bizarre about this case, but one thing troubles me in terms of police procedure. It appears that GBC has never been taken in for intensive questioning, as a prime suspect. Yes, he's got the lawyer, but still if they thought there were any problems with his story wouldn't they have him in there pointing out that he didn't have his story straight. The lawyer might say: you don't have to answer that, but still they'd question him wouldn't they?

It just seems that whatever he told QPS must be holding up as plausible, and they already have a straight story from him. In which case the confusion in the media reports is the usual case of the media not getting it right.

Able to refuse questioning til charged?
Can't charge til cause of death established (in the absence of other conclusive proof)?

 

[laserdisc10]

Yes, same here. Nite all

 

[Neuromancer]

Said brain fatigue understood after night of watching traffic cam change every 60 secs! what were we thinking! we should have been snuggled under our duvets. And what has happened to Swedish Swingler, who is guilty of the googling?

"guilty of the googling"

awesome

 

[Neuromancer]

If you mean commit a murder by some sort of physical means, I disagree with you. Strangling is the most common cause of death when a man murders his wife. Start with narcissistic rage, an argument or even comments by Allison that he didnt want to hear, then he loses it and tries to silence her. It's not really about being violent or rough, it is purely about eliminating the person who is for you, the source of your pain or problem. Smothering could also be another method, if they were in the right situation where there was a pillow or cushion at hand. But the decision to kill is very quick and the most instant way to do it is strangling, rather than looking around for weapons or aids.

This is exactly how i see it, regardless of whether at house or after running/driving down the road or whatever, regardless of motivations old or new.

 

[Kimster]

Did everyone go to bed? :doh:


There were a lot of alerts in my absence. Most were concerns about the hand and about chit chat on the threads. So here's the deal.

The hand is a rumor at this point. I believe that someone told Possum this, but it doesn't make it true. I've been a moderator for a few years now and I've heard a LOT of rumors. Half of them have been true and half of them have not been true. Because the rumor about the hand has not been verified by media or law enforcement, let's just put it in our back pocket for now and consider it a rumor and let it go.

As for the second issue: chit chat. Chit chat is fun! I enjoy chit chat, too! However, it can be very distracting, especially when someone is at work and they come here and can't get to the point of the day's events because of all the chit chat. So I'm going to set up a chit chat room for you guys to visit in. I'll be back with a link in a few minutes.

 

[Neuromancer]

Latest information
Witness saw two cars at 4am at Kholo Creek

"A WITNESS has told police of seeing two four-wheel-drives near Kholo Creek crossing early on the day Allison Baden-Clay was reported missing.
It is alleged a white four-wheel-drive didn't have its headlights on, only parking lights, and was closely tailing a smaller, blue four-wheel-drive at about 4am on April 20.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/bad...es/story-e6frfkvr-1226356754019#ixzz1uwvjEA4H

Re this - iirc there was someone who posted a few threads back whose neighbour's husband's whatever works at the Rocklea markets and saw vehicle/s driving slowly over the Kholo Bridge around 4 on his way to work.

 

[Kimster]

CHIT CHAT ROOM - Here's the link! Be sure to share it with all cobbers.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172214"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]



(Please note this chat room is in our private forum. Only members of Websleuths can view the chat room. It is for chat only and not discussion of this case). And I've added the link to the opening post for easy access.

 

[BrizzychickinUSA]

I agree with you about the drugging, will be interesting to see what the tox reports say.

I just read a witness reported two cars

It is alleged a white four-wheel-drive didn't have its headlights on, only parking lights, and was closely tailing a smaller, blue four-wheel-drive at about 4am on April 20.
The witness told of noticing the vehicles at Anstead in Brisbane's west - within 2km of where the 43-year-old mother of three's body was found 10 days later. Police said Mrs Baden-Clay was reported missing by her husband Gerard at 7.30am on Friday after she failed to return from her usual morning walk.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/bad...es/story-e6frfkvr-1226356754019#ixzz1uxXPo6Ne

Im propably 24 hours behind here....again...

 

[Ixnaye]

It seems odd that they would use the white Toyota Prado 4wd to dump the body since it is so easily recognisable with the company insignia on the back window etc.

Maybe in a state of panic he couldn't find the keys to silver Holden Captiva. Or possibly it was both cars that were seen by the Kholo Creek crossing as I do agree with other posters that the Silver captiva could have looked blue in the darkness.

It seems the net is closing in though.

 

[BrizzychickinUSA]

It seems odd that they would use the white Toyota Prado 4wd to dump the body since it is so easily recognisable with the company insignia on the back window etc.

But that does seem to be his car, maybe in the heat of the moment he couldn't find the keys to silver Holden Captiva. Or possibly it was both cars that were seen by the Kholo Creek crossing as I do agree with other posters that the Silver captiva could have looked blue in the darkness.

It seems the net is closing in though.

Of course it would appear blue at 4am in the morning....:maddening:

 

[Neuromancer]

Bah finally made it through today's posts and everyone's gone.

Meanwhile, in relation to the ongoing confusion re went for walk 10pm/watching footy show etc.

Police just say "last seen 10 pm by husb"
Parents say "he called and said she'd gone for a walk" (no time)

Just read this:
"Have just been in contact with Alison Sandy from the Courier Mail, she told me that, “[they] haven’t been able to confirm anything with Gerard either, but [their] understanding is the last time she was seen was the Thursday, April 19, when she went for a late night walk.”
http://gibberjabble.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/the-mystery-of-allison-baden-clay/

I wonder if CM are being clever here and "late night walk" could also cover "being chased down the road by a someone trying to kill you", since the initial search hot zone/scream location was just down the road.

 

[Neuromancer]

Of course it would appear blue at 4am in the morning....:maddening:

yeah i wondered how you'd get a colour, unless in well-lit area.

 

[BrizzychickinUSA]

I think he got the looking like crap bit right a few times. And yes I know what you are saying. Logically I think we would all feel like that. But again as we don't know what has transpired by way of police conversations or what. I've seen a few husbands in cases who do get out there and play the part of grieving husband, pleading for the wife to come home and crying the tears. Only to see they are the ones charged with the murder in the end. I guess My thought originally was it was strange he did not get out there as part of the Media conference Allisons parents gave, and plead for Allisons return. But, and I acknowledge I may be in the minority here, but I'm not going to persecute someone for how I think they should have acted when they didn't or until I have all the facts.

I totally agree with you -
I just feel he DIDNT love her....and that would cause him to not go crazy looking for her....
But there are other things he didnt do that make us all feel sick to our stomachs as the inevitable unfolds....

I still shake my head and wonder how anyone could take the life of someone let alone a mother of 3 gorgeous girls....

I couldnt even hit anyone cos it would make me feel horrible if I saw I left a mark.