Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #11

[mandy.maree]

Been thinking along those lines too. In regard to the break and enter and indecent assault on the poor sleeping 18 year old girl in Huntingdale on 15 February 1988 (when the white silk kimono was stolen off someone else’s washing line prior to the attack and dropped as he fled the scene), BE would have only been 19 years and 2 months old at the time (born Dec 1968). Wondering if the fact that this was the day after Valentine’s Day had anything to do with his chosen time for this attack? Did he have a secret crush on that poor girl in his neighbourhood (without her even knowing) and had hoped she’d notice him on Valentine’s Day or something but she didn’t and he couldn’t handle the perceived ‘rejection’ (in his warped, twisted sick mind) and took out his anger the next day? Speculation of course

I'm guessing BRE was quite nocturnal for a long time in his area. He would have been stealing neighbours clothing, lurking in gardens and peeping in windows for quite a while before that wasn't enough or the opportunity arose to do more.
I'm betting most his earliest victims would have seen him about,perhaps even spoke with him.
He would have covered his face and not spoke because of this. Most of this sort like to verbally degrade and see the victims faces-he probably wanted too also. Was just too local for him to do so at the time. Then he changed his hunting grounds to further away...I think the Claremont victims saw his face,his car...spoke to him...
He had to kill them after that. To avoid detection

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[123sniff]

Yes perhaps we are overthinking the CCTV footage. It could be as simple as:

* MM waiting/hiding on Gugeri St, sees vulnerable girl/target standing out front of hotel (JR).
* JR probably waiting for someone inside hotel
* MM approaches JR, tries to pick her up, or get her to move down street to darkness
* JR sometime later walks that way (why who knows)
* BLITZ attack

This feels right on the mark to me. IMO JR was waiting in vain for VE (Vested Employee), whilst at the same time MM/CSK was trawling the dark corners of the streets waiting for a vulnerable female. Someone earlier mentioned the direction MM came from was an elevated footbridge, a perfect vantage point to select his prey. Her reaction to MM when he approaches is exactly how most girls would behave if they are trying to gain the attention of another male, as another poster noted 'look how funny, desirable etc I am to other men'. At some point she either gives up on waiting for VE, or VE gives her the slip and she makes her way across the road & down the street, possibly to catch a cab. There were possible sightings of her further down the road. IMO this is when MM/CSK made his move.

I saw a documentary about a decade ago about serial killers. They had random women walking across a screen & the convicted SK's had to pick out which ones they would select as victims. Although to the viewer, there was no noticeable differences between the women, the SK's all selected the same woman as their mark. It was then analysed, and concluded that because psychopaths develop into good readers of body language (due to lack of empathy), they have an innate ability to pick out the weak sheep from the flock.

 

[mandy.maree]

Thanks for that PRIME SUSPECT, I found that about a year ago and read it all very interesting stuff. Which category would you put CSK into? From the limited information we have, and of course, just an opinion, I'm thinking he's Hedonistic. Re-reading what some of these guys have said about killing women, just so sickening! And as, I think it was CSK?
(our poster CSK? that is) said, there were/are so many sickos out there over 40 at the time of Claremont girls, raping women and I'm sure men too, it's mind blowing how dangerous the world is now. But as that serial killer HH Holmes proves, whom I mentioned previously, (he could have killed up to 200 people back in the late 1890s), we've had these strange, perverse people amongst us since the dawn of time.

I think he's a hedonistic lust killer . Possibly power/control. Only 2 that fit really

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[JoeDetective]

Visionary - driven to kill by voices or visions, either from God and angels or demons and the devil.
Mission-oriented - concentrates on the actual killing and its outcome. They see it as their duty to eliminate individuals they consider unworthy or undesirable, such as prostitutes, from society.
Hedonistic - divided into two sub-categories of lust killer and thrill killer. The central focus for the lust killer is sex; before, during or after the killing. For the thrill killer, the act of killing is simply for enjoyment, pleasure or excitement.
Power/control - motives are the pleasures received from complete control and dominance over the victim. The killer feels important and powerful. Prolonging the act ensures greater gratification (Holmes & DeBurger 1998).

Important to keep in mind that it is always possible CSK does not fit a mould, although unlikley.

Based on all the stories and what I have read regarding the individual charged as being the CSK, i'd be suprised if it wasn't a power/control motive.
He has classic documented control issues as outlined in some of the documents he has written, criticising others for not doing as he wants.

I haven't seen any evidence to support the other possibilities.

 

[BReVeTTe]

these stills from the CCTV are a follow up to my original post #491

Toomanytoocount,
I was able to extract only 5frames per second on my device and I think there is now a better quality video than the one from which I sourced these frames.


1) Jane is aware of the man in the vest

2) a lovely smile from Jane as the vested man becomes aware that her gaze is on him.

3) subtle but definite eye to eye contact with vested man

After their eye contact, Jane's smile fades away as the vested man's focus shifts from her.
He waits at the door as theMM is seen to appear
Vested man then enters the hotel where (i have spec'd) he removes his work vest.


[emoji887]

 

[123sniff]

Important to keep in mind that it is always possible CSK does not fit a mould, although unlikley.

Based on all the stories and what I have read regarding the individual charged as being the CSK, i'd be suprised if it wasn't a power/control motive.
He has classic documented control issues as outlined in some of the documents he has written, criticising others for not doing as he wants.

I haven't seen any evidence to support the other possibilities.

I agree, all the evidence so far points to power/control motive. Perhaps his view of himself was not reflected by his peers so he decided to take matters into his own hands? Maybe once he had an adoring wife (CGE), a respected job, and a respected role at LA this was enough for him. It was mentioned on BF forum his first wife was domineering, so perhaps the first marriage did not curb his ways, and the deterioration of his marriage led to escalation of his violent behaviour?

 

[The Weaver]

Obviously not his real business card. Whatever "identity" he had assumed for the chat up. Easy enough to print some fake cards with phoney numbers etc. what's the worry, even if she showed it to someone or rang the numbers, it's all fake. She'd just dismiss it as some random nutter, but if she fancied him and believed his, you're the one for me story, she'd quietly put it in her pocket and not show her mates.

Or she'd be dismissive and show it to one of her mates, or leave it on a table, or hand it to security,or find a cop and give it to him/her. Given that one girl had been raped, one was missing and the town was on alert, I find it hard to imagine a serial killer wandering around handing out business cards.

 

[123sniff]

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...LtHfylJQsTjIkXg5jcpdwQ&bvm=bv.143423383,d.dGc

 

[Foolio79]

I dont believe vest man and the guy who sticks his head out the door are the same person. The guy who sticks his head out can be seen leaving right at the end of the video with another man.

 

[mandy.maree]

Okay I changed my mind.
Definite power / control killer.
He fits it well.
Usually stems from a lack of admiration in early years leading them to seek admiration later in life.
They are usually quite narcissistic but have very fragile egos.
I believe when he was in relationships he was getting his needs met well. Once those failed,he was back to feeling inadequate.
When relationships fail, he no doubt sees himself as the victim and goes out to restore his pride(nothing is ever his fault). If rejected its taken as a personal attack and triggers the instability and aggression.
I am certain CGE would have seen quite a few of his outbursts when things didnt go his way.

The words pedantic and meticulous get used a lot to describe him. That is no doubt because he wants others to follow his rules and specifications exactly. How dare they not! He's superior and they should be grateful to be speaking to him
He however is allowed to be as disorganized and lazy as he likes no doubt

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[SherlockSleuth]

2 things.

Firstly, why does there seem to be CCTV of JR but none of the first & third victims?

Second, and this isn't very nice, but as a teacher I've met a small handful of students who, at a young age, worry you that they could, potentially, develop into something like a SK, mainly because they have a complete and utter lack of empathy (you have to see it to believe it I'm afraid) but also because of an inability to form close/normal/productive bonds/r'ships with peers and or teachers.

 

[mandy.maree]

2 things.

Firstly, why does there seen to be CCTV of JR but none of the first & third victims?

Second, and this isn't very nice, but as a teacher I've met a small handful of students who, at a young age, worry you that they could, potentially, develop into something like a SK, mainly because they have a complete and utter lack of empathy (you have to see it to believe it I'm afraid) but also because of an inability to form close/normal/productive bonds/r'ships with peers and or teachers.

Think it was installed after SS disappeared. I do think they have more footage of JR and CG. Probably been going through it all recently to spot BE car in the area

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[CuriousChum]

This feels right on the mark to me. IMO JR was waiting in vain for VE (Vested Employee), whilst at the same time MM/CSK was trawling the dark corners of the streets waiting for a vulnerable female. Someone earlier mentioned the direction MM came from was an elevated footbridge, a perfect vantage point to select his prey. Her reaction to MM when he approaches is exactly how most girls would behave if they are trying to gain the attention of another male, as another poster noted 'look how funny, desirable etc I am to other men'. At some point she either gives up on waiting for VE, or VE gives her the slip and she makes her way across the road & down the street, possibly to catch a cab. There were possible sightings of her further down the road. IMO this is when MM/CSK made his move.

I saw a documentary about a decade ago about serial killers. They had random women walking across a screen & the convicted SK's had to pick out which ones they would select as victims. Although to the viewer, there was no noticeable differences between the women, the SK's all selected the same woman as their mark. It was then analysed, and concluded that because psychopaths develop into good readers of body language (due to lack of empathy), they have an innate ability to pick out the weak sheep from the flock.

I think this scenario is also correct.

There are two other things to add.

MM may have met JR sometime earlier in the week (Telstra installation at home, work, uni etc or someother place) and in general chat said to JR "so got a big weekend planned" and JR replied "Yeh set for a big Saturday night with the girls at the Conti". MM with this knowedge then sat and waited for maybe an opportunity to approach her (this could be possible given his stalling before approaching her outside the Conti.........like he was calculating in his mind this was the best time). Of course it could also be completely random.

The other bit to add is if JR was interested in the "employee" and waiting for him to finish his shift, would the employee exit behind the Conti through a secure staff door to his car parked rear?? Maybe she gave up waiting out front for him to get his car and pick her up, that she walked around Gugeri St to the rear of the pub and wham was blitzed by MM.

I haven't read the previous detailed posts of Conti Hotel layout, so apologies about this if only a front exit

 

[123sniff]

Having obsessively scoured the CCTV footage, I was convinced JR willing went with MM. But hearing and seeing the new opinions on VE (vested employee), I've changed my mind. IMHO JR had her sights set on VE, and MM/CSK takes advantage once she's given up & started walking off on her own. My gut feeling is CSK tricks his victims into getting close to his car, and then it's a full-on blitz attack.This also fits with KK's description and various other cases. The only descriptions I've read about BRE is "reserved, quiet, pedantic, controlling" not really the type to charm girls off their feet.

 

[Look4Clues]

Quite possible. My ex-boss the cruel paedophile used to bare his teeth at me and shake in anger. And I've just re-watched (had seen it when it was first shown on tv) the Australian Story "Before you leap" with Estelle Blackburn (this was uploaded recently by someone on here, sorry can't remember who, but thank you) she thought her ex partner was the CSK. (Had good reasons to think this, just shockingly violent man). His rage, when he thought he had been spurned, was just like Ted Bundy. He tried to bite her nose off in a public place in front of dozens of witness. She was covered in blood, so he almost succeeded by the sounds of things! So it would seem the biting aspect with these super violent rapists/murderers is more common than we might expect.

Estelle also said he was a heavy drug user (heroin etc) and drug dealer ...

 

[123sniff]

I think this scenario is also correct.

There are two other things to add.

MM may have met JR sometime earlier in the week (Telstra installation at home, work, uni etc or someother place) and in general chat said to JR "so got a big weekend planned" and JR replied "Yeh set for a big Saturday night with the girls at the Conti". MM with this knowedge then sat and waited for maybe an opportunity to approach her (this could be possible given his stalling before approaching her outside the Conti.........like he was calculating in his mind this was the best time). Of course it could also be completely random.

The other bit to add is if JR was interested in the "employee" and waiting for him to finish his shift, would the employee exit behind the Conti through a secure staff door to his car parked rear?? Maybe she gave up waiting out front for him to get his car and pick her up, that she walked around Gugeri St to the rear of the pub and wham was blitzed by MM.

I haven't read the previous detailed posts of Conti Hotel layout, so apologies about this if only a front exit

Yes! And MM must have felt quite rejected when she turned her attention back to waiting for VE. MM then heads back up the street, around the corner and waits/watches. Interestingly JR watches him turn the corner, maybe she's making sure he's gone, he gave her the creeps? A fellow poster SKYZA cleverly identified this as MM by his distinctive gait (refer earlier posts in this thread).

Note: MM's legs are visible pacing back & forth at the corner of the street (top of screen) before and after his interaction with JR. I'm convinced these legs belong to MM based on the distinctive gait.

 

[CuriousChum]

Yes! And MM must have felt quite rejected when she turned her attention back to waiting for VE. MM then heads back up the street, around the corner and waits/watches. Interestingly JR watches him turn the corner, maybe she's making sure he's gone, he gave her the creeps? A fellow poster SKYZA cleverly identified this as MM by his distinctive gait (refer earlier posts in this thread).

Note: MM's legs are visible pacing back & forth at the corner of the street (top of screen) before and after his interaction with JR. I'm convinced these legs belong to MM based on the distinctive gait.

Yep excellent! I am sure out of all scenarios I think this is it!

I just did street view on Google of Gugeri street alongside the Claremont Hotel and although there looks like a fairly new Thirsty Camel pub, there is definitely a walk way through to the carpark behind the continental. If staff had a door to get back there, this is certainly very feasible now that JR walked around there to meet "vested employee".

I agree, MM hit JR up, she did not like it, did not want to go with him, and really offers him no interest as he walks away (from the direction he came), other than to turn and check the creep has gone?

I bet WAPOL didn't release this relationship between JR and the "employee" as it probably makes the employee seem perhaps guilty and/or tarnishes JR reputation perhaps........

All speculation but IMO this is correct

 

[MrsNathanDrake]

..... "when he was kissing me" thought that very strange as I don't think that's the MO of most serial killers/rapists to kiss their victims? It's normally to degrade and dehumanise them, kissing is an intimate act, almost like CSK thinks he's on a date, so if rejected can imagine in his mind (not that anyone can really put themselves into a killer's mind) spent all this time and effort on this woman, obviously he's showed her he's interested in her, how dare she reject his "romantic" advances? Rage, pure hatred and rage follows!

Only speaking from personal experience but when I had an incident where I was tied up, tortured and raped when I was younger, that person also tried to kiss me. It was very weird because the rest of it had definitely been very violent and controlling and this was very intimate and disgusting. Also much harder to deal with because the other stuff was easier to block out but hard to block what's literally happening right in front of your face.

 

[123sniff]

Only speaking from personal experience but when I had an incident where I was tied up, tortured and raped when I was younger, that person also tried to kiss me. It was very weird because the rest of it had definitely been very violent and controlling and this was very intimate and disgusting. Also much harder to deal with because the other stuff was easier to block out but hard to block what's literally happening right in front of your face.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

It seems like the attackers behave how they think they should behave (ie. the kissing/display of intimacy)?

 

[CP345]

I think this scenario is also correct.

There are two other things to add.

MM may have met JR sometime earlier in the week (Telstra installation at home, work, uni etc or someother place) and in general chat said to JR "so got a big weekend planned" and JR replied "Yeh set for a big Saturday night with the girls at the Conti". MM with this knowedge then sat and waited for maybe an opportunity to approach her (this could be possible given his stalling before approaching her outside the Conti.........like he was calculating in his mind this was the best time). Of course it could also be completely random.

The other bit to add is if JR was interested in the "employee" and waiting for him to finish his shift, would the employee exit behind the Conti through a secure staff door to his car parked rear?? Maybe she gave up waiting out front for him to get his car and pick her up, that she walked around Gugeri St to the rear of the pub and wham was blitzed by MM.

I haven't read the previous detailed posts of Conti Hotel layout, so apologies about this if only a front exit

I think you'll find that JR was not planning to go to the conti that evening. She had phoned her brother and asked him to go to the movies with her and he said no. She then apparently decided to meet some friends st the last minute. If they knew each other at all they met that night or it was a coincidence they'd met at an earlier stage rather than being planned.

Come to think of it if she had something ongoing with a staff member at the conti this would have been her first choice of venue, certainly not the movies with her brother. Upshot being if there was some kind of arrangement made to meet anyone it had to be made that night not before. I know she's checking her watch but I've seen many people do this in the situation she was in by herself outside a night spot. Acting like you're waiting for someone is better than look at me I'm here hoping a guy will talk to me all alone. The present day version of this is pretending to check your phone.