Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #16

[PCS]

DRT,
Many thanks, very helpful. Perhaps in 1994 CGE was in a relationship with Vs father. Perhaps CGE helped out at the restaurant. Spooks has mentioned beforehand that a couple of the victims may have dined at the French restaurant. It might be possible that BRE had dined at the restaurant, briefly meeting CGE and met up again at the Eagles.
Perhaps BRE went to the restaurant when he was first married, but didn't take his wife. Perhaps he wasn't happy in 1993/1994.

Canning Vale; Good luck with this one?

 

[Canning Vale]

Ok. I haven't been in that one. Only District Court. Will BRE appear in the Magistrates Court? Do BIG cases go there?

PCS,
What a good citizen - good of you to perform jury duty for the state.

 

[Innerchild]

If you*experience*something first hand, you've witnessed*it yourself. If you*experience something*second*hand or third hand, someone else*tells*you about it.

If Mr Richardson for instance came on here and posted names involved and further details of the incident in 1986 for instance, that would be first hand.
(Likewise if it's reported in the media)

But being told those to somebody else who might of known him as an acquaintance who then posts them, then that information would be second hand for instance.

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I am not trying to be disrespectful but not sure what you are saying, for example: Does that mean you have first or second hand knowledge when you say...? quote Went to prestigious school, but has poorly paying unprestigious job. or changed into her evening dress to disguise the fact that she was working at a hotel or Has degree, but that particular degree doesn't give you a good job.

However all reports say she changed into black high collared evening dress to attend staff party and had recently returned from working for a year in London as a directors assistant after graduating from Curtin (WAIT). Working room service while deciding where to continue her studies according to her family.


Relatives search beach for clues by C Williams
Relatives of missing Fremantle woman Julie Cutler searched Cottesloe Beach yesterday for clues to the mystery. Her distraught father, Roger and uncle Brian, walked up and down the beach hoping that Friday night’s heavy seas had washed up a clue to what happened to the 22 year old woman. She disappeared after leaving Perth’s Hilton Hotel car park early on Wednesday (incorrect date and Hotel??).

But all they saw at the spot where her two tone Fiat sedan was found 35 m offshore was surfers and swimmers.

Mr Brian Cutler, of Safety Bay, is convinced his niece would not have taken her own life. He fears the worst but like the rest of the family refuses to give up hope she will be found alive.
If she was the victim of foul play he believes it was because she stopped to help someone along Stirling Highway while driving to her Fremantle flat.

In 1986? Julie graduated in theatre studies from Curtin University where she had appeared in several plays. She returned from London earlier this year after a year working as a director’s assistant.

She was working on room service at the Hilton while she was deciding where to continue her studies – Perth or Melbourne.

Her uncle said Ï was very close to her. The whole family was. She spoke on the phone to her grandmother only last week and I saw her a couple of weeks ago. Next week she was going to Kalgoorlie to visit her father.

“”She wasn’t a drinker. The most you could say was that she was a very mild social drinker. Everybody I have spoken to said she was in no way intoxicated when she left the hotel. She wasn’t one of those people who would drink and drive. The whole situation is baffling.

Also attaching another article Murder Seems Certain which shows the Hotel uniform and the handbag that is still missing.
Both articles in late June early July 1988.

 

[meticulously]

I am not trying to be disrespectful but not sure what you are saying, for example: Does that mean you have first or second hand knowledge when you say...? quote Went to prestigious school, but has poorly paying unprestigious job. or changed into her evening dress to disguise the fact that she was working at a hotel or Has degree, but that particular degree doesn't give you a good job.

However all reports say she changed into black high collared evening dress to attend staff party and had recently returned from working for a year in London as a directors assistant after graduating from Curtin (WAIT). Working room service while deciding where to continue her studies according to her family.


Relatives search beach for clues by C Williams
Relatives of missing Fremantle woman Julie Cutler searched Cottesloe Beach yesterday for clues to the mystery. Her distraught father, Roger and uncle Brian, walked up and down the beach hoping that Friday night’s heavy seas had washed up a clue to what happened to the 22 year old woman. She disappeared after leaving Perth’s Hilton Hotel car park early on Wednesday (incorrect date and Hotel??).

But all they saw at the spot where her two tone Fiat sedan was found 35 m offshore was surfers and swimmers.

Mr Brian Cutler, of Safety Bay, is convinced his niece would not have taken her own life. He fears the worst but like the rest of the family refuses to give up hope she will be found alive.
If she was the victim of foul play he believes it was because she stopped to help someone along Stirling Highway while driving to her Fremantle flat.

In 1986? Julie graduated in theatre studies from Curtin University where she had appeared in several plays. She returned from London earlier this year after a year working as a director’s assistant.

She was working on room service at the Hilton while she was deciding where to continue her studies – Perth or Melbourne.

Her uncle said Ï was very close to her. The whole family was. She spoke on the phone to her grandmother only last week and I saw her a couple of weeks ago. Next week she was going to Kalgoorlie to visit her father.

“”She wasn’t a drinker. The most you could say was that she was a very mild social drinker. Everybody I have spoken to said she was in no way intoxicated when she left the hotel. She wasn’t one of those people who would drink and drive. The whole situation is baffling.

Also attaching another article Murder Seems Certain which shows the Hotel uniform and the handbag that is still missing.
Both articles in late June early July 1988.

These pictures of newspaper articles mention storms and heavy seas .
The proposal of heavy seas and storm again.
This is wrong though isnt it Innerchild ?

 

[petedavo.au]

I am not trying to be disrespectful but not sure what you are saying, for example: Does that mean you have first or second hand knowledge when you say...? quote Went to prestigious school, but has poorly paying unprestigious job. or changed into her evening dress to disguise the fact that she was working at a hotel or Has degree, but that particular degree doesn't give you a good job.

However all reports say she changed into black high collared evening dress to attend staff party and had recently returned from working for a year in London as a directors assistant after graduating from Curtin (WAIT). Working room service while deciding where to continue her studies according to her family.


Relatives search beach for clues by C Williams
Relatives of missing Fremantle woman Julie Cutler searched Cottesloe Beach yesterday for clues to the mystery. Her distraught father, Roger and uncle Brian, walked up and down the beach hoping that Friday night’s heavy seas had washed up a clue to what happened to the 22 year old woman. She disappeared after leaving Perth’s Hilton Hotel car park early on Wednesday (incorrect date and Hotel??).

But all they saw at the spot where her two tone Fiat sedan was found 35 m offshore was surfers and swimmers.

Mr Brian Cutler, of Safety Bay, is convinced his niece would not have taken her own life. He fears the worst but like the rest of the family refuses to give up hope she will be found alive.
If she was the victim of foul play he believes it was because she stopped to help someone along Stirling Highway while driving to her Fremantle flat.

In 1986? Julie graduated in theatre studies from Curtin University where she had appeared in several plays. She returned from London earlier this year after a year working as a director’s assistant.

She was working on room service at the Hilton while she was deciding where to continue her studies – Perth or Melbourne.

Her uncle said Ï was very close to her. The whole family was. She spoke on the phone to her grandmother only last week and I saw her a couple of weeks ago. Next week she was going to Kalgoorlie to visit her father.

“”She wasn’t a drinker. The most you could say was that she was a very mild social drinker. Everybody I have spoken to said she was in no way intoxicated when she left the hotel. She wasn’t one of those people who would drink and drive. The whole situation is baffling.

Also attaching another article Murder Seems Certain which shows the Hotel uniform and the handbag that is still missing.
Both articles in late June early July 1988.

Oh, you're actually asking about the speculative pieces. The probablys and "I think" posts. Ruling them out leaves what's left as the truth. Process of elimination demands that all innocent explanations be eliminated. The new information you posted here has just helped that to occur.

I actually thought you were asking about the posts regarding a possible person of interest who I said certain facts about that weren't evident in the actual 1986 article, unless somebody told me his name. And since it was told to me, it's secondhand hearsay, so against WS TOS to post his name.
Unless someone posts it as first hand information. MSM article for instance.

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[Innerchild]

These pictures of newspaper articles mention storms and heavy seas .
The proposal of heavy seas and storm again.
This is wrong though isnt it Innerchild ?

Heavy seas on Friday 24th June or Friday 1st July (not too sure of the date of article) would be correct, but not on the 20th or 22nd. But all they saw at the spot where her two tone Fiat sedan was found 35 m offshore was surfers and swimmers.

Every day of the year there are swimmers, surfers, paddlers, runners etc at Cott beach no matter what the waves or weather. With the risk of sending Twist apoplectic I say that with confidence as that was what I did every day with many others when living at Cott and being a CSLSC member in the 80s.

Also there was the paid beach inspector or ranger at Cott every day of the week from 6.00 am, and car as described was found just under the flood light. I talked to members a few months after the incident, who saw the car that morning, and they were still talking about the damage up to a year later. None believed it could not have been caused by entering the ocean off the beach. I hadn't seen the car myself then and took little notice.

I did try to find your weather analysis metic, but it seems to have disappeared but the questions I asked then still stand. We have the picture of the car with a clear view of the waves. I hadn't developed a senario until I listened to others on here and finished calculating forces and am happy with my conclusion based on evidence and happy if no one else agrees.

JC's car found with lights on and ignition on and another article says the battery was forensically tested. No use testing a dead battery if no lights on, but if the lights were on you would want to test the battery to try to est. how long car as in water for. I say two hours and when they release information maybe on 30th anniversary next year public may have access.

Anyhow metic I totally respect your ability to find information and your intelligence but sorry storm was days after the car was found and have agree to disagree and wait for next year.

 

[meticulously]

From a doctor of Physical Oceanography ,

Wind directions detailed synoptic modelling from 15th june to 26th june 1988 .

It was stormy wild wet winter weather conditions before the 21st and after the 23rd which must have made searching very difficult .
Not suprisingly the car was found during the (only) finest day of all the period 15th-28th june 1988.*

The sources of this information.*

http://www.ecmwf.int/en/resear...climate-reanalysis/era-interim


This is a very detailed weather plot that required a fee to create,
Especially for the JC car mystery sleuths and whoever else maybe interested .

As long as you can read synoptic charts its easy to plot wind and current paths .
A lot of the guesswork is eliminated.

For example the night of the 20th when jc first dissappeared, the waves would have been banging loudly and the waves possibly up to 2-3 metres high .
Therefore creating a situation where a car went in unnoticed .

There had been a ferocious storm the preceeding 3 days so there was less chance of swimmers and fishermen than normally , Imo
.

Weather Details in link below ;

https://www.dropbox.com/s/64on835amvect38/ECMWF_wind_pressure_june_15-26_1988.pdf?dl=0

Heres the weather info that shows the storm .
And Yes there was consecutive storms as i have repeatedly stated .
2 big storms thats correct , but the first of the 2 storms was the 17-19th june and that one created 7metre (nat) swells as shown on graph. (6m rottnest )
All fully detailed if you have the ability to read the statistics from the physical oceanographer.

Every point you argue can be proven wrong about those waves on the early hours of the 20th .

Note * delay of ~4hrs for swell arrival from rottnest to cottesloe beach .

 

[meticulously]

Julie C disappearance

20/6/88.*

https://www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/1988/june

Temperature maximun at Subiaco: celcius

15th- 21.5 ,

16th - 20.5,*

17th - 20.5 ,*

18th -19.5 ,*

19th - 19.5 ,*

20th - 18 ,*

21st - 20.1 ,*

22nd - 22.8 ,*

23rd - 24*

24th - 25 .*


Temperature minimum at Subiaco*

15th- 15,*

16th - 15.5 ,

17th - 16.5 ,*

18th - 14 ,*

19th - 13.5 ,*

20th - 8 ,*

21st - 10 ,*

22nd - 8.6 .*


* cold on 20 & 22 / 6 .

--------------------------------------

"Synoptic charts for 21st – 26th June 1988 showing a large and strong
frontal feature moving over the south west on 25th June, that penetrated further north than a typical frontal event, and resulted in heavy rainfall across most of the south west, and flooding in many river catchments.
Source: (Bureau of Meterology, 1988)."




First picture is from newspaper on the 17th june showing storm front .

2nd and 3rd are details of the storm on the 25th onward june 88

 

[Zedx]

CG is the one that stumps me. By what people have stated on here in earlier threads she would never have got into the car with a stranger. There is no log of her calling for a taxi and she was walking. Was she planning on hitch hiking home. Perhaps after travelling for a period of time she was confident with trusting people she didnt know. Even if the accused met her prior through some law event with his ex how would you even come to that conversation and stop the car in the middle of the night 'Hey i recognized you we met at so and so' that even sounds creepy. I just don't know and she left the venue earlier than her other colleagues because she was tired she had another lift on offer but she didnt want to stay on. Surely she would have heard through other people even colleagues about the previous 2 missing girls. It was massive news and I'm sure it must of come up in passing conversation as they were at the establishment the others were last seen. I don't understand it.

Hi Questions 123. I have also wondered why CG was walking. It makes no difference, whether it be now or 20 years ago, its never safe to be walking alone that time of night. Was she going to another phone box? Can any one tell me if it was a feasible distance for her to walk home? i would have thought spending time in Europe would have made you more world wise. Her parents said they had warned her about the CSK so she wouldn't have got in some randoms car. I still believe he knew some of the girls in some form and that is why they got in his car. And when the police said it was not random, they just mean't that he chose the nights he was driving around looking for an opportunity to grab some one. Not Random could be referring to him, not the choice of victim. IMO I think we will find some were ambushes and some were not, just depending on how each 'abduction' / opportunity presented itself. I also don't believe JC was a CSK victim. Completely different MO. Unless the police know something we don't. Sounds more like some one was after her if it is true about the car chasing her and the break in.

 

[Xyz]

Hi Questions 123. I have also wondered why CG was walking. It makes no difference, whether it be now or 20 years ago, its never safe to be walking alone that time of night. Was she going to another phone box? Can any one tell me if it was a feasible distance for her to walk home? i would have thought spending time in Europe would have made you more world wise. Her parents said they had warned her about the CSK so she wouldn't have got in some randoms car. I still believe he knew some of the girls in some form and that is why they got in his car. And when the police said it was not random, they just mean't that he chose the nights he was driving around looking for an opportunity to grab some one. Not Random could be referring to him, not the choice of victim. IMO I think we will find some were ambushes and some were not, just depending on how each 'abduction' / opportunity presented itself. I also don't believe JC was a CSK victim. Completely different MO. Unless the police know something we don't. Sounds more like some one was after her if it is true about the car chasing her and the break in.

For what it's worth, I agree with many of these points. By the time CG went missing, there was no way a young woman would get in a car with a stranger, and may even be wary of someone they knew but not very well.

I think one possibility is the car (that was seen by the guy at the HJs bus stop) stopped and the driver tried to persuade her to get in, but she refused and kept walking. She may have even said something jokingly along the lines of 'do you think I'm crazy?! You could be the SK!'... The driver may have panicked realizing she could give a description of both him and the car, and so nabbed her further up the road to stop her telling the police. Am I correct in thinking CG was found clothed? Different to JR? But if course we don't know if SS was clothed or unclothed. The KK victim was unclothed.

I also am baffled why WAPOL told JC's family she may have been a victim of the CSK - unless they know something the public don't. To my mind, Kerry Turner seemed way more likely - a young woman gets into a car without any obvious struggle and body is found in bushland (clothed or unclothed? Any items missing? How did she die? Molested? -I don't think police released many details?) And now we know that she was picked up in a spot that would have been on the way home from city/ Northbridge etc to Huntingdale (if indeed the accused is guilty. Which of course he may not be).

All JMO

 

[Canning Vale]

About twenty years ago someone pointed out a block of units along the Swan River – red brick. The person pointed them out, advising Homeswest had purchased them and the locals had objected. The units were situated along the river, somewhere near Mosman Park. I wonder if these units were for people who had problems, like the Access Housing ones in Weld St, Palmyra which are solely for people who have drug-problems or mental health issues. Twenty-years ago, Homeswest would have dealt with people who had such issues. It may explain some of the problems within Glyde St. Quite possibly these units, have since been demolished. Can anyone else recall such units within the Glyde St, area, because there have been umpteen issues within that area?

I’m mindful that people live within Homeswest units and certainly not suggesting there’s anything wrong them.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I'm baaaaaaack!
(Test post)

 

[Pandit]

Heres the weather info that shows the storm .
And Yes there was consecutive storms as i have repeatedly stated .
2 big storms thats correct , but the first of the 2 storms was the 17-19th june and that one created 7metre (nat) swells as shown on graph. (6m rottnest )
All fully detailed if you have the ability to read the statistics from the physical oceanographer.

Every point you argue can be proven wrong about those waves on the early hours of the 20th .

Note * delay of ~4hrs for swell arrival from rottnest to cottesloe beach .

With all that turbulent activity, storms and high swells the ocean floor would have been quite disturbed and the water cloudy for some time. After a storm it takes a few days for the water to clear, the Fiat being grey would have I imagine rendered it almost invisible? A bright yellow car on the other hand may have been noticed a bit earlier but even then perhaps not in a murky sea. If the lights in the vehicle were turned on, they may have been covered in seaweed, debris or sand ditched.

 

[b4u]

It's the glassy sea days immediately after the big storms that the surfers and bodyboarders came out in force at Cottesloe Beach if the swell direction and sandbank God's were kind.

The swell would have been coming from the direction of the Groyne and possibly with not many people entering or exiting the water around the line of the pylon.
Probably further down towards the groyne.
(Not certain of this as it's so long ago that I entered the winter Cott Beach surf after big storms, or watched the surfers from the carpark).

 

[petedavo.au]

About twenty years ago someone pointed out a block of units along the Swan River – red brick. The person pointed them out, advising Homeswest had purchased them and the locals had objected. The units were situated along the river, somewhere near Mosman Park. I wonder if these units were for people who had problems, like the Access Housing ones in Weld St, Palmyra which are solely for people who have drug-problems or mental health issues. Twenty-years ago, Homeswest would have dealt with people who had such issues. It may explain some of the problems within Glyde St. Quite possibly these units, have since been demolished. Can anyone else recall such units within the Glyde St, area, because there have been umpteen issues within that area?

I’m mindful that people live within Homeswest units and certainly not suggesting there’s anything wrong them.

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...AH#v=onepage&q=homeswest glyde street&f=false

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[janwa]

About twenty years ago someone pointed out a block of units along the Swan River – red brick. The person pointed them out, advising Homeswest had purchased them and the locals had objected. The units were situated along the river, somewhere near Mosman Park. I wonder if these units were for people who had problems, like the Access Housing ones in Weld St, Palmyra which are solely for people who have drug-problems or mental health issues. Twenty-years ago, Homeswest would have dealt with people who had such issues. It may explain some of the problems within Glyde St. Quite possibly these units, have since been demolished. Can anyone else recall such units within the Glyde St, area, because there have been umpteen issues within that area?

I’m mindful that people live within Homeswest units and certainly not suggesting there’s anything wrong them.

The Government of Western Australia Housing Authority formerly known as Homes West, allots out houses and units to disability services, drug recovery services, domestic violence support services and now migrant support services. These services decide who of their clients gets the accommodation. The Housing Authority just approve financial eligibility. It is only when an application for a designated use building goes through the council or there is antisocial behaviour that people become aware of a cluster in their midst.

 

[Canning Vale]

The Government of Western Australia Housing Authority formerly known as Homes West, allots out houses and units to disability services, drug recovery services, domestic violence support services and now migrant support services. These services decide who of their clients gets the accommodation. The Housing Authority just approve financial eligibility. It is only when an application for a designated use building goes through the council or there is antisocial behaviour that people become aware of a cluster in their midst.

Janwa,

Thanks for the information. Petedavo has sent some links. Within the area there were probably a couple of designated use buildings or group homes for people who have spent a bit of time in Graylands or the like. I know of St Barts who run group homes.

 

[Canning Vale]

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...AH#v=onepage&q=homeswest glyde street&f=false

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Petedavo,
Many thanks. I'll have a read.

 

[petedavo.au]

About twenty years ago someone pointed out a block of units along the Swan River – red brick. The person pointed them out, advising Homeswest had purchased them and the locals had objected. The units were situated along the river, somewhere near Mosman Park. I wonder if these units were for people who had problems, like the Access Housing ones in Weld St, Palmyra which are solely for people who have drug-problems or mental health issues. Twenty-years ago, Homeswest would have dealt with people who had such issues. It may explain some of the problems within Glyde St. Quite possibly these units, have since been demolished. Can anyone else recall such units within the Glyde St, area, because there have been umpteen issues within that area?

I’m mindful that people live within Homeswest units and certainly not suggesting there’s anything wrong them.

I noticed a few of those gumtree Homeswest swap adverts listed for 630 Stirling Highway, which is the big block of flats on the opposite side of Glyde St to the former French restaurant, but it also looks like some of the flats are listed for private sales too, so I was wondering if it was one of them Homeswest blocks that have now been sold off, like brownlie towers in Bentley was?

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[petedavo.au]

Janwa,

Thanks for the information. Petedavo has sent some links. Within the area there were probably a couple of designated use buildings or group homes for people who have spent a bit of time in Graylands or the like. I know of St Barts who run group homes.

And RFWA who faced a massive backlash in Fremantle when they bought 2 properties in Glyde St Fremantle back in the 1980s before gaining Council approval for housing former psychiatric patients.

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