Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Spooks-R-Us]

Haha yep, pretty suspicious! A dodgy type [emoji13]

Aren't all us sleuths a little dodgy and suspicious considering we're interacting on a forum about a serial killer?

My laptop has plenty of dodgy webpages bookmarked!


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[petedavo.au]

• 24 Aug 2016 - Bartholemeus posted this one.... #1402
  
  - JC was last seen on Monday 20th June 1988 at 12:30am in her car which was parked in the Parmelia Hilton car park in the city. She was alone and was leaving a staff function.
  - A man and woman were see leaving the function shortly after her. It's unknown whether police spoke to them and if they have been ruled out.
  - Someone online claims she was seen at The Racquet Club (a nightclub in East Perth) afterwards. She was apparently a regular there. This has never been reported by police or media. One issue with this is time. Sunrise would have been about 7am but there would have been early morning joggers. I also think police and media would have discovered she went to the Racquet Club if it were true.
  - Her car was dumped in the surf at Cottesloe. Most likely by the killer but it's possible the killer dumped the car somewhere else and an uninvolved 3rd party then took the car and dumped it. The only plausible way the car go into the ocean was it was driven down the access to road to the surf club at high tide and across a limited span of sand and then was taken out with the tide.
  - How the back seat came apart from the car is a mystery. It doesn't make sense that the killer dislodged the seat and dumped it and the car. I also can't see the back seat coming undone and coming out through the front window while in the surf as apparently the back doors were locked and only the front driver side window was open. Possible but unlikely. Maybe media reports are incorrect and it was the back rest of one of the front seats?
  - The body was most likely dumped somewhere else. Never been found. The car went out with the tide and the car as well as a seat came back in with the tide.
  - Where did JC meet her killer?
  - Why dump the car in the surf? Why not just leave it in the car park?
  - Why Cottesloe? The killer had to get home and there's not a lot of public transport options.
  polski_fiat_125p_7.jpg​

If all the other events, the vehicle incident on Stirling Hwy, the break in at her home, the wallet, bag of clothes are all related to her disappearance, then the vehicle incident, where the stalking vehicle turned off towards Cottesloe is a clue.
IMO if the driver of that vehicle that stalked her was responsible for her disappearance, then for the shake of argument, where would Julie go, if that vehicle that was stalking her found her again on Stirling Hwy and got more serious? What would most people do? There's a cop shop nearby, I'd pull into the car park there, even if it was closed. That should frighten the stalker off, no?
I would therefore look for signs of a struggle in the Cottesloe Police Station carpark. He probably left his car there after the crime and disposed of her car at the nearest place he could walk back from, down the road at Cottesloe Beach.
Why not leave it in the cop shop carpark though?
Maybe that very location could identify him or bring attention upon him for some reason. Maybe he lived across the road, or worked there?
The night shift crew if returning to the station in the morning, would recognise a colleagues car, probably figuring he went home on the train because he was too pissed to drive, wouldn't bat an eyelid seeing their colleague walking to work, but if they saw the Fiat... couldn't leave the Fiat there... too many questions would arise.
If I was investigating Julie's case I'd be checking the station book, and interviewing every one working there and regular visitors at the time for clues.
Just some random thoughts.

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[petedavo.au]

And what's the name of the hall on beach front on south side of Indiana Tea House. That hall is regularly used for functions like 18ths and 21st birthday parties.


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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Cottesloe Surf Life Saving clubrooms

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[Spooks-R-Us]

Cottesloe Surf Life Saving clubrooms

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Thanks Davo. You confirmed my suspicions!


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[meticulously]

Weather Analysis : 20th june 88.

These 4 color maps are the 20th june from midnight, 6am, 12pm, 6pm & 00hrs.

With a high pressure cell moving over the state the temperature dropped to 8 degrees ( shown on links subi)
Overnight with very light north or variable winds .

At cottesloe beach waves (up to 3 metres poss) crashing and banging loudly .

Its fairly still without much wind during the early morn and sound would travel well , unless the ocean was louder thus possibly drowning (excuse pun) out other noises .
Jmo

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Weather Analysis : 20th june 88.

These 4 color maps are the 20th june from midnight, 6am, 12pm, 6pm & 00hrs.

With a high pressure cell moving over the state the temperature dropped to 8 degrees ( shown on links subi)
Overnight with very light north or variable winds .

At cottesloe beach waves (up to 3 metres poss) crashing and banging loudly .

Its fairly still without much wind during the early morn and sound would travel well , unless the ocean was louder thus drowning out other noises .
Jmo

Good work Meticulously
Impressive


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Spooks-R-Us]

Weather Analysis : 20th june 88.

These 4 color maps are the 20th june from midnight, 6am, 12pm, 6pm & 00hrs.

With a high pressure cell moving over the state the temperature dropped to 8 degrees ( shown on links subi)
Overnight with very light north or variable winds .

At cottesloe beach waves (up to 3 metres poss) crashing and banging loudly .

Its fairly still without much wind during the early morn and sound would travel well , unless the ocean was louder thus drowning out other noises .
Jmo

Maybe some sleuths are mixing up '3 foot' waves versus '3 metre' waves??


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[milamber182]

Found a website on a different thread that might be of use to some sleuthers:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/

Find and get over 548,857,143 Australian and online resources: books, images, historic newspapers, maps, music, archives and more

 

[GreenE]

If all the other events, the vehicle incident on Stirling Hwy, the break in at her home, the wallet, bag of clothes are all related to her disappearance, then the vehicle incident, where the stalking vehicle turned off towards Cottesloe is a clue.
IMO if the driver of that vehicle that stalked her was responsible for her disappearance, then for the shake of argument, where would Julie go, if that vehicle that was stalking her found her again on Stirling Hwy and got more serious? What would most people do? There's a cop shop nearby, I'd pull into the car park there, even if it was closed. That should frighten the stalker off, no?
I would therefore look for signs of a struggle in the Cottesloe Police Station carpark. He probably left his car there after the crime and disposed of her car at the nearest place he could walk back from, down the road at Cottesloe Beach.
Why not leave it in the cop shop carpark though?
Maybe that very location could identify him or bring attention upon him for some reason. Maybe he lived across the road, or worked there?
Just some random thoughts.

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Just 1 possible scenario -- walk home killer

1 they attack JC and kill her in the car, likely through cutting or stabbing the victim
2 When they realise the mess made in the car they hastily come up with a plan to destroy the evidence --(dump in the ocean)
3 When working out where to dump it, they think of somewhere familiar where they know they can get away with the least risk of being seen
4 They live in or near Cottesloe, so choose to dump the car there.

The reason I think this is not totally out of the realm of possibility is because the choice to dump the car in the ocean, although effective in this case, seems like a pretty difficult option unless there was evidence to destroy and you didn't want to burn it. I would say the key reason they chose not to burn was this was a more risky option for them than driving it into the ocean. A burning car gets attention at night and if the killer had no ability to burn and drive away (e.g. they didn't have their car with them), it was possibly more convenient to drive it near their place and into the water.

I also think the car in the ocean suggests this was not premeditated but rather an act of rage, possibly due to rejection of their advances towards her.


Another possibility is always there was one or more accomplices.

 

[petedavo.au]

Found a website on a different thread that might be of use to some sleuthers:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/

Ditto. Trove is very useful. Can create lists, and tags. I used it on this case I am working on for instance. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13110936
However WA newspapers only go up-to the 1954. The only paper that's current in the Canberra Times. There are some University Guild Newspapers that have just gone on trove which are fascinating journeys into what some of our current industry leaders, high flying lawyers and politicians wrote when they were students.
[video=twitter;496527491859632128]https://twitter.com/petedavo_au/status/496527491859632128[/video]

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[petedavo.au]

Just 1 possible scenario -- walk home killer

1 they attack JC and kill her in the car, likely through cutting or stabbing the victim
2 When they realise the mess made in the car they hastily come up with a plan to destroy the evidence --(dump in the ocean)
3 When working out where to dump it, they think of somewhere familiar where they know they can get away with the least risk of being seen
4 They live in or near Cottesloe, so choose to dump the car there.

The reason I think this is not totally out of the realm of possibility is because the choice to dump the car in the ocean, although effective in this case, seems like a pretty difficult option unless there was evidence to destroy and you didn't want to burn it. I would say the key reason they chose not to burn was this was a more risky option for them than driving it into the ocean. A burning car gets attention at night and if the killer had no ability to burn and drive away (e.g. they didn't have their car with them), it was possibly more convenient to drive it near their place and into the water.

I also think the car in the ocean suggests this was not premeditated but rather an act of rage, possibly due to rejection of their advances towards her.


Another possibility is always there was one or more accomplices.

Possible.
I was thinking, the reason for dumping the car was because the perp simply couldn't afford the risk of leaving it at the crime scene as the crime scene location would identify him and so took it to the beach and let it roll down the access rd.
I wonder thou if there was ever any other disappearances that had similarities?

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[meticulously]

Possible.
I was thinking, the reason for dumping the car was because the perp simply couldn't afford the risk of leaving it at the crime scene as the crime scene location would identify him and so took it to the beach and let it roll down the access rd.
I wonder thou if there was ever any other disappearances that had similarities?

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PD , do you or do other sleuths have a theory as to which night in particular, that you think the car went in the ocean ?

 

[GreenE]

Possible.
I was thinking, the reason for dumping the car was because the perp simply couldn't afford the risk of leaving it at the crime scene as the crime scene location would identify him and so took it to the beach and let it roll down the access rd.
I wonder thou if there was ever any other disappearances that had similarities?

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Yes that's another possibility

1. Killed her at or near his frequented location (e.g. home) after for instance, she rejected his advances
2. Disposed of the body at unknown location
3. Has to get rid of the car so chooses the ocean
4. Finds another way home from the dump site

My main problems there are with 3 and 4, the choice of the ocean and departing the dump site. Getting a taxi would be risky and without an accomplice, you would have to plan well ahead. My thinking is that this was a spur of the moment event that led to desperate attempt to destroy the evidence, in which case, they would probably avoid long walks, taxis etc from the dump site.

 

[petedavo.au]

Yes that's another possibility

1. Killed her at or near his frequented location (e.g. home) after for instance, she rejected his advances
2. Disposed of the body at unknown location
3. Has to get rid of the car so chooses the ocean
4. Finds another way home from the dump site

My main problems there are with 3 and 4, the choice of the ocean and departing the dump site. Getting a taxi would be risky and without an accomplice, you would have to plan well ahead. My thinking is that this was a spur of the moment event that led to desperate attempt to destroy the evidence, in which case, they would probably avoid long walks, taxis etc from the dump site.

Unless the crime scene is within a short walk away from the beach... which is why I thought of a workplace, like the police station, or a residence. If the other events are related, then the stalker on Stirling Hwy must've looked up her license plate to break in to her home, because he turned off Stirling Hwy before she got home. That's why I thought it wasn't related to the accused CSK. He couldn't look up a license plate.

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[janwa]

Unless the crime scene is within a short walk away from the beach... which is why I thought of a workplace, like the police station, or a residence. If the other events are related, then the stalker on Stirling Hwy must've looked up her license plate to break in to her home, because he turned off Stirling Hwy before she got home. That's why I thought it wasn't related to the accused CSK. He couldn't look up a license plate.

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Various cars in the surf

[FONT=&quot]Broome 62 16-9-09 The Bogged Car on Cable Beach at Broome[/FONT]

 

[janwa]

Unless the crime scene is within a short walk away from the beach... which is why I thought of a workplace, like the police station, or a residence. If the other events are related, then the stalker on Stirling Hwy must've looked up her license plate to break in to her home, because he turned off Stirling Hwy before she got home. That's why I thought it wasn't related to the accused CSK. He couldn't look up a license plate.

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At that time it was relatively easy to get a Rego or an address there weren't the password checks there are now.

 

[Innerchild]

I think you all can give the wave theory a rest. It is wasting your time. It won't solve the case. Get out there in the dune tracks nth & south of cott. Find 30 at the same time.

I see you didn't take PCS advice metic. Strange, cause sometimes your posts sound like him and he posts good advice written in nice short sentences like you sometime.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Western-Australia-15&p=13529900#post13529900

Interesting you keep posting lots of shiny maps that show a high over the state on the right and a storm weather system developing around 42 degrees south (Could be half way to Antarctica) on the left on the weekend before JC disappeared. Somehow I keep thinking of Dory in the movie Nemo "Look shiny thing, look shiny thing".

Are you still insisting there was a storm on the weekend before JC went missing? The Sunday Times front page 19th June 1988 has the photo of detectives outside in shirtsleeves (on 18th June) looking at the backyard of the murder house. The West Australian has the weather forecasts (around a page each day).
Friday 17[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Temp 16.1 at 10.10 pm and 21.5 at 11.30am

Saturday 18[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Morning showers. Outlook fine. Temp 14 – 20. West to SW winds 15knots easing to 10 knots by late morning. Seas 1 m on a swell to 2.5 m.

Sunday 19[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Temp min 13.6 at 8.50 pm and max 20.6 at 11.45 am.

Monday 20th June 1988: SW winds at 10 to 15 knots easing to 10 knots by late morning. Seas should be 1 m on a swell of 3 m.Temp 10.7 degrees at 7.30 am and max 18.4 degrees at 2.25pm. The coldest overnight temp was 10.7 degrees at 7.30am, This is accurate reported on Tuesday 21st June, for what its worth.

The seas 1 m and swell of 3 m with winds SW are general boating Perth City Coast forecasts but with the SW direction Cottesloe is sheltered by the groyne and Rottnest. Ive posted what similar wind and swell conditions look like on Cott beach in June this year.

Source live webcam Cottesloe beach Saturday June 3 9.00am.

Perth City Coast forecast is 2.5 m WSW winds for Sat 3rd June 2017 8.00am. That is real like example of what a Perth City Coast forecast of 2.5 m swell in a WSW direction looks like at Cottesloe beach.

 

[Innerchild]

How did it get there was just the first problem.

Car in Surf Mystery Deepens (June 1988)
The entry point of the car into the water remains a mystery. There was no evidence, such as scrape marks that the car had been driven off the groyne. To drive from the service road around the walkway to the groyne would have involved negotiating deep sand drifts that have blown across the walk way.

The other most likely entry would be off the service road that leads to the CSLSC boatshed. Such an entry would involve running the car off a 1 m concrete retaining wall, across a narrow stretch of sand into the surf…

Roll it down the hill or turn right towards the boatshed and you get the 1 m drop. Turn left and negotiate the sand drift over road. How far would you get on the beach. It's low tide 10.00 pm and takes around 12 hours to high tide.
Then how did the damage occur?

 

[Innerchild]

CV The car was a 1968 Fiat. I have the missing poster somewhere with an image of similar car on it.

The man that was found naked, mysteriously dead on beach 3 weeks later 800 m south of groyne. When I was at Baytte Lib ages ago I asked librarian to try to find further information on him and she was unable to. I didn't have time to search death notices. It's possible he's connected but there is just not enough information about him or how he died to make any probables IMO.

 

[Canning Vale]

CV , there is something vague in my memory, a bit of extrapolating that we could do, im hoping .
So i have a vague memory of reading the story of a function, gathering or party type thing, occuring on the sunday night 19th & mon 20th early am .
Thinking the story went, that around the cott beach area there was something going on and this story is within the WS or BF websites .
Does anyone have that story / memory ?
If you know where that information is then please bring it forth for discussion ?

Metic,
Last night I had a good look, but couldn't locate anything. Later today I'll search again.
Also, I vaguely remember seeing there was a function too.