Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Canning Vale]

BRE didn't buy the VR/VS Commodore. Telstra did. Durr.

PCS,
I wasn't aware it was a Telstra fleet vehicle. How are you aware of this information, or is it just a presumption?

My thoughts were that BRE may have bought a Telstra ex-fleet vehicle at the auctions.

 

[Canning Vale]

Since April I’ve been contributing to this forum. During that time, all I’ve gathered, is that Claremont has been host to umpteen different creeps.

I suppose, if the CSK was a regular visitor to the Claremont Speedway, when that finished (about 10pm) he possibly met up with a group who socialized at a hotel in Cottesloe. Later in the evening, segregating from that group – and alone moved on to the clubs which stay open later. (March 2000 the speedway ended).

A couple of the ladies (victims) socialized at the OBH Cottesloe before clubbing at Club Bay View and the Continental. The OBH didn’t get much of a mention – I’m curious why?

Quite a few incidents have mentioned Cottesloe as the initiation point. What’s in Cottesloe that would attract a creep? JMOO.

 

[meticulously]

Since April I’ve been contributing to this forum. During that time, all I’ve gathered, is that Claremont has been host to umpteen different creeps.

I suppose, if the CSK was a regular visitor to the Claremont Speedway, when that finished (about 10pm) he possibly met up with a group who socialized at a hotel in Cottesloe. Later in the evening, segregating from that group – and alone moved on to the clubs which stay open later. (March 2000 the speedway ended).

A couple of the ladies (victims) socialized at the OBH Cottesloe before clubbing at Club Bay View and the Continental. The OBH didn’t get much of a mention – I’m curious why?

Quite a few incidents have mentioned Cottesloe as the initiation point. What’s in Cottesloe that would attract a creep? JMOO.

"What’s in Cottesloe that would attract a creep?"

CV, the only thing I can think of is the beaches , Leighton to Swanbourne was easily accessible .
Swanbourne a nudist beach .
Cott beach is central to a lot of "csk" incidents
That was possibly an area a creep went .

Otherwise , I've got no idea, but like the question about the OBH .

 

[Innerchild]

This is incorrect . Just another very early report that turned out false imo

It did turn out to be false I think, but there were 13 sightings of Jane that night that were reported in the news paper. The sightings seemed to have her hitch hiking at various places going into Perth city, if I remember correctly. I believe all were found to be false, but seems a co-incidence or someone laying a flse track? The news report has been posted on websleuths but does anyone have a copy?

 

[meticulously]

It did turn out to be false I think, but there were 13 sightings of Jane that night that were reported in the news paper. The sightings seemed to have her hitch hiking at various places going into Perth city, if I remember correctly. I believe all were found to be false, but seems a co-incidence or someone laying a flse track? The news report has been posted on websleuths but does anyone have a copy?

In this video it says that this is the last time JR was seen alive on the night .

https://youtu.be/eTpMkQV_bfk

 

[Innerchild]

IC, Seeing your now helping me , can you repost the weather map without cropping the left side please ?
I would like to see every word , at the moment its a bit too blurry but it can be adjusted .

Here is the map IC kindly posted !

This map for the 17th , and that sure looks like a storm to me !

This is the "stormy period" the Oceanographer and i have mentioned and it is why the waves got so damn big ;
ie 6 -7 metres on the 17th and 19th .

Circled in red is one of the successive fronts.

On the 20th a high cell moved over the perth area and weather was fine for a few days .

Sorry this was as good as it got with my picture taking. It's definitely not a storm, you posted above with your weather map quote metic Seen here in newspaper, 17th june , a broad front as north as shark bay .
It was a high pressure ridge over shark bay and still around 1012 over Perth which is still high.

The West Australian Saturday 18[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Morning showers. Outlook fine. Temp 14 – 20.

A high pressure ridge was located across the centre of the continent and was producing fine clear conditions with easterly winds in the northern half. Broad frontal cloud band should produce further showers in the southwest. However, these should contract to the lower southwest and coastal parts.

Extended forecast

As the high pressure ridge moves further southwards a return to fine conditions in inland areas should result by this afternoon. Coastal regions should experience isolated showers early this morning. Another weak front should pass near the southwest corner tomorrow, but showers associated with this system should be confined to the far southwest coast.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

IMO The alleged CSK hunted in Cottesloe and Claremont for the same reason guys from other lower socioeconomic status suburbs went to pubs there and CBV - to try and bag themselves a 'rich chick'.
Only difference was their differing definitions of 'bagging' a hot, rich chick (woman)!
JMO


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[petedavo.au]

PCS,
I wasn't aware it was a Telstra fleet vehicle. How are you aware of this information, or is it just a presumption?

My thoughts were that BRE may have bought a Telstra ex-fleet vehicle at the auctions.

Yes, the commodore station wagon was his Telstra work vehicle.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...r/news-story/6c72e0b800816c7c17018525bcd68229

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[meticulously]

I'm not sure if your map above is the weather map for the 17th June but there is a high over the middle of the state and shark bay. But can't see how this early map has any relevance to JC's disappearance. My view is the car went into the ocean early Wed morning with it's lights still on when found. I am trying to get the information about the car being found in writing.

I'm just trying to compare apples with apples with the sea and swell conditions with wind direction and strength at the time in June 1988 with close as possible images of the same sea, swell wind direction and strength. The best indication is the image of the recovered car to show the ocean conditions IMO.

Source: The West Australian Saturday 18th June 1988

Sorry this was as good as it got with my picture taking. It's definitely not a storm, you posted above with your weather map quote metic Seen here in newspaper, 17th june , a broad front as north as shark bay .
It was a high pressure ridge over shark bay and still around 1012 over Perth which is still high.

The West Australian Saturday 18[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Morning showers. Outlook fine. Temp 14 – 20.

A high pressure ridge was located across the centre of the continent and was producing fine clear conditions with easterly winds in the northern half. Broad frontal cloud band should produce further showers in the southwest. However, these should contract to the lower southwest and coastal parts.

Extended forecast

As the high pressure ridge moves further southwards a return to fine conditions in inland areas should result by this afternoon. Coastal regions should experience isolated showers early this morning. Another weak front should pass near the southwest corner tomorrow, but showers associated with this system should be confined to the far southwest coast.

IC : "it's definitely not a storm"
Rsbm..
IC: "there is a high over the middle of the state and shark bay.
But can't see how this early map has any relevance to JC's disappearance."

Rsbm..
IC:"can't see how this early map has any relevance to JC's disappearance."
_______________________________



Even though you have debated the weather details for 6 months and admit you cant see the relevance to JCs disappearance you just keep arguing for the fun of it ? ? ?

Global weather models assume an average Mean Sea Level Pressure of 1013hPa
So your wrong iC , 1012 hpa is a low pressure not a high .


My weather analysis is for cottesloe beach not Shark Bay or Australias North .
I have explained why i researched it , repeated it multiple times .

The minor details, they support the swell buoy statistics which say 2 major swells hit the coast.
On the 17th and 19th june .
Seen here :

Thats the biggest factor of this researching .

All reports have the wind blowing onshore
In the days leading up to the 20th june .
( Affects the tide )
When low pressure systems move over a region, the sea level rises by a relative amount, while high pressure systems push down on the ocean, creating a drop in sea level.
This is called the inverse barometer effect.
One factor that effects the sea level is the wind.
If the coast is under a persistent strong onshore wind, increased sea levels are observed and this is called wind setup.
I said long ago, about the beach conditions, that tides would have been "higher than predicted" , in the days before the 20th .
Due to wind and swell pushing waves up the beaches.

 

[petedavo.au]

IC : "it's definitely not a storm"
Rsbm..
IC: "there is a high over the middle of the state and shark bay.
But can't see how this early map has any relevance to JC's disappearance."

Rsbm..
IC:"can't see how this early map has any relevance to JC's disappearance."
_______________________________



Even though you have debated the weather details for 6 months and admit you cant see the relevance to JCs disappearance you just keep arguing for the fun of it ?



My weather analysis is for cottesloe beach not Shark Bay or Australias North .
I have explained why i researched it , repeated it multiple times .

These minor details , they just support the swell buoy stats which say 2 major swells hit the coast on the 17th and 19th june .

Thats the biggest factor of this .

All reports have the wind blowing onshore
In the days leading up to the 20th june .
( That affects the tide )

General rule of thumb. Weather moves west to east. If a high is inland then the good weather has already passed. A cold front is a storm. At least it is here. And as IC says a cold front is affecting the south west. Perth is in the south west as BOM uses a different definitions of South West than do Perth residents. The south west for BOM is usually from Lancelin to Israelite Bay. Weather preceding a high usually getting better, once the high has passed the coast, the weather on the coast deteriorated rapidly. The swells are produced off shore, so to determine the coastal conditions one must look off shore rather than inland at what is driving the marine conditions. Since the winds in a high circulate clockwise, and highs come in much further north in winter than summer, one will note that onshore winds will be coming in from the south and south west in winter once a high pressure cell has crossed the coast. The described high pressure cell inland and cold front approaching the coast means to me, that Perth is in for some **** weather, and rough seas.
And when this happens, you can't see the bottom of any beach because the water is churned up with sand and ****, making visibility impossible. I wouldn't be surprised that the Fiat was in the water for quite a number of days until it was sighted by chance when someone was on top of it, as reported in the media. It certainly couldn't be seen from the beach or the groyne as water visibility was too poor.
I don't for a minute believe the car was discovered on the day it entered the water, but some days later.

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[meticulously]

General rule of thumb. Weather moves west to east. If a high is inland then the good weather has already passed. A cold front is a storm. At least it is here. And as IC says a cold front is affecting the south west. Perth is in the south west as BOM uses a different definitions of South West than do Perth residents. The south west for BOM is usually from Lancelin to Israelite Bay. Weather preceding a high usually getting better, once the high has passed the coast, the weather on the coast deteriorated rapidly. The swells are produced off shore, so to determine the coastal conditions one must look off shore rather than inland at what is driving the marine conditions. Since the winds in a high circulate clockwise, and highs come in much further north in winter than summer, one will note that onshore winds will be coming in from the south and south west in winter once a high pressure cell has crossed the coast. The described high pressure cell inland and cold front approaching the coast means to me, that Perth is in for some **** weather, and rough seas.
And when this happens, you can't see the bottom of any beach because the water is churned up with sand and ****, making visibility impossible. I wouldn't be surprised that the Fiat was in the water for quite a number of days until it was sighted by chance when someone was on top of it, as reported in the media. It certainly couldn't be seen from the beach or the groyne as water visibility was too poor.
I don't for a minute believe the car was discovered on the day it entered the water, but some days later.

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PD, lows spin clockwise , highs anticlockwise . ( In the southern hemisphere only )

Thanks for your opinion though its pretty good .
I agree with what your saying generally,
Its good to see someone with a bit of an idea .

These are the maps made by the physical oceanographer of the 17th june and they clearly show westerly winds south of Lancelin .
Black Arrow mark is wind direction.

A big red area in the ocean, that is a big storm and thats why the waves got big over the following 4 days .

This map is 12am 17th .
Then 6am 17th .

This is 12pm the 17th
And 6pm the 17th

 

[petedavo.au]

PD, lows spin clockwise , highs anticlockwise . ( In the southern hemisphere only )

Thanks for your opinion though its pretty good .
I agree with what your saying generally,
Its good to see someone with half a clue !

Weather's generally all about the location's latitude, and Earth's ecliptic plane and orbital plane*at any given time. Throw in the position of the moon, and then we're talking about tides. Everything else is an influence in the generation of individual weather events, like fronts and pressure cells. Then the rotation of the earth just makes them all go around.

Articles, such as this one posted by innerchild in the last thread, describing the discovery and pictures of the recovery of the car tells us as much as anything about the water visibility at the scene. It was non existent. Tracks on the sand didn't exist because they were washed away. It's noted that the article said there were sand drifts across the access road, meaning that the weather was windy and sea was rough.

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[meticulously]

General rule of thumb. Weather moves west to east. If a high is inland then the good weather has already passed. A cold front is a storm. At least it is here. And as IC says a cold front is affecting the south west. Perth is in the south west as BOM uses a different definitions of South West than do Perth residents. The south west for BOM is usually from Lancelin to Israelite Bay. Weather preceding a high usually getting better, once the high has passed the coast, the weather on the coast deteriorated rapidly. The swells are produced off shore, so to determine the coastal conditions one must look off shore rather than inland at what is driving the marine conditions. Since the winds in a high circulate clockwise, and highs come in much further north in winter than summer, one will note that onshore winds will be coming in from the south and south west in winter once a high pressure cell has crossed the coast. The described high pressure cell inland and cold front approaching the coast means to me, that Perth is in for some **** weather, and rough seas.
And when this happens, you can't see the bottom of any beach because the water is churned up with sand and ****, making visibility impossible. I wouldn't be surprised that the Fiat was in the water for quite a number of days until it was sighted by chance when someone was on top of it, as reported in the media. It certainly couldn't be seen from the beach or the groyne as water visibility was too poor.
I don't for a minute believe the car was discovered on the day it entered the water, but some days later.

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PD: "Since the winds in a high circulate clockwise"

You got that wrong PD, its anticlockwise.

Quote :
"Weather's generally all about the location's latitude, and Earth's ecliptic plane and orbital plane*at any given time. Throw in the position of the moon, and then we're talking about tides. Everything else is an influence in the generation of individual weather events, like fronts and pressure cells. Then the rotation of the earth just makes them all go around."

Where did you quote that from ?
Makes no sense [emoji2]

 

[petedavo.au]

The case Robyn Santen also shows us that bodies can be lost to the ocean and never wash up. Therefore, just because Julie Cutler didn't wash up, doesn't automatically make her disappearance foul play

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It appears in this article that Police have ruled out an innocent explanation to Julie Cutler's disappearance, simply because her body did not wash up upon the beach?

http://thewest2.smedia.com.au/Olive...px?href=WAN/2008/12/05&id=Ar00700&sk=1889EBF6

Yet, that is exactly what they put to the Coroner at Robyn Santen's inquest.

It would appear that it is a logical fallacy to assume that the lack of a body in cases of disappearances at beaches determines whether foul play was involved or not.

There was mention of a telephone call after Julie Cutler's disappearance. I think we need to know a bit more about this.
Was it a verified report in MSM?
If so, is there some way to find out if it was a prank?

 

[petedavo.au]

PD: "Since the winds in a high circulate clockwise"

You got that wrong PD, its anticlockwise.

Quote :
"Weather's generally all about the location's latitude, and Earth's ecliptic plane and orbital plane*at any given time. Throw in the position of the moon, and then we're talking about tides. Everything else is an influence in the generation of individual weather events, like fronts and pressure cells. Then the rotation of the earth just makes them all go around."

Where did you quote that from ?
Makes no sense [emoji2]

1. If I remembered the oozlum bird, then I would of got the direction of rotation of high pressure cells correct.
2. where? Was sitting in my garage having a smoko, trying to remember all I was taught about weather in Year 10, (in 1977).

 

[Innerchild]

snipped
So i will Agree with IC, that there was not much foul weather to be seen on the main land that suggested the fronts were rough or bad on the weekend prior to mon 20th. So fair enough , the weather wasnt bad enough to say "storm" . They were rather fronts ! Seen here in newspaper, 17th june , a broad front as north as shark bay .

Its what it did in the ocean , biggest waves of the whole year perhaps ! Thats what i was looking at , Creating 7 metre swells is rare . It was storm Off the coast . This is what my friend the physical oceanographer wrote in the first email when i first requested help , re 15-26 june "It was a stormy period ! i think currents definitely would have been north to south… and big waves too"

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13683577

I agree there was a weak cold front over the south west of Perth, but the isobar was still 1012 hardly low or very low. That is a high pressure system of 1016 over shark bay in your image not a cold front as you said in your post above. It is clearly shown in my map of 17th June. I'm not sure if your image is of the same day, although similar. It is basic Yr 10 geography. I'm just trying to put the correct facts out there are make sure they do not get distorted.

Metic you have been quoting of random 7 m swells and NW winds off Cape Naturaliste way off of lower south west of WA. That is incompatible winds and swell size as reported for Perth metropolitan on the dates around JC's disappearance

Sorry PD, high pressure systems are anti clockwise, but the weather does move west to east as a system. All the coloured maps you posted metic clearly show a very low pressure system or very very low around 41 or 42 degrees South, so half way to Antarctica around 17th June 1988. That takes about 6 days to arrive in Perth on Friday 24th June.

Source West Australian Sat 18th June 1988

Saturday 18[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Morning showers. Outlook fine. Temp 14 – 20. A high pressure ridge was located across the centre of the continent and was producing fine clear conditions with easterly winds in the northern half.
Extended forecast
As the high pressure ridge moves further southwards a return to fine conditions in inland areas should result by this afternoon. Coastal regions should experience isolated showers early this morning. Another weak front should pass near the southwest corner tomorrow, but showers associated with this system should be confined to the far southwest coast.

Sunday 19[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Temp min 13.6 at 8.50 pm and max 20.6 at 11.45 am.
Monday 20[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Temp min 10.7 at 7.30 am and max 18.4 at 2,25 pm. SW winds at 10 to 15 knots easing to 10 knots by late morning.
Tuesday 21[SUP]st[/SUP] June 1988: Forecast Perth fine and cool. North East winds 5 to 12 knots. Seas should be 0.5 m on a swell to 2.5 m. Temp 8 – 19 degrees.

Extended forecast: With a high pressure cell establishing itself over the southern half, fine conditions should persist over the State until late tomorrow. A front should approach the coast tomorrow night and cross the lower west coast on Thursday.

Wednesday 22[SUP]nd[/SUP] June 1988: Forecast Fine. Outlook showers developing. Temp 10 – 20.
Fine and sunny conditions prevailed through the northern half, while the southern half experienced similar conditions at 4.00pm yesterday. A high pressure system was located over the Eucla and is presently bringing fine weather to almost the whole state. These conditions should persist except for the extreme SW corner where isolated showers are forecast. With clear skies and light winds inland areas should be in for another cold night with local frosts in the southern half. The seasonal fine weather should persist in the northern half.

Source: The West Australian June 17th - 22nd June 1988.

 

[Innerchild]

It appears in this article that Police have ruled out an innocent explanation to Julie Cutler's disappearance, simply because her body did not wash up upon the beach?

http://thewest2.smedia.com.au/Olive...px?href=WAN/2008/12/05&id=Ar00700&sk=1889EBF6

Yet, that is exactly what they put to the Coroner at Robyn Santen's inquest.

It would appear that it is a logical fallacy to assume that the lack of a body in cases of disappearances at beaches determines whether foul play was involved or not.

There was mention of a telephone call after Julie Cutler's disappearance. I think we need to know a bit more about this.
Was it a verified report in MSM?
If so, is there some way to find out if it was a prank?

Caller claims she is missing woman. West Australian originally posted by no name. Date? Tuesday 28th June?

A young woman who claimed she was missing Fremantle woman Julie Leanne Cutler telephoned The West Australia yesterday to say she was still alive.

The woman who sounded upset said she wanted her father, Mr Roger Cutler to be told that she was safe but she wanted to be left alone.

She said “My name is Julie Cutler. I want you to tell my father that I am all right. I just want to be left alone. I will talk to a reporter later.”

 

[no name]

IC - heres one link to the "13 sightings" of JR article. Posted by Sutton #65
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...er-1996-1997-Perth-Western-Australia-11/page6

Interesting JC discussion back on thread 2 - near the front I think.

 

[Canning Vale]

"What’s in Cottesloe that would attract a creep?"

CV, the only thing I can think of is the beaches , Leighton to Swanbourne was easily accessible .
Swanbourne a nudist beach .
Cott beach is central to a lot of "csk" incidents
That was possibly an area a creep went .

Otherwise , I've got no idea, but like the question about the OBH .

Yes part of Swanbourne Beach is a nudist beach, which, from memory isn’t assessable by road, but rather a trek from another beach. Swanbourne is only 3kms from Claremont and I’ll be putting some thought into Swanbourne nudist beach being the attraction.

What about skimpy bars, back then? I recently noticed the Silver Sands Tavern in Mandurah still has skimpies.

Just a thought: In Parkerville there’s Sunseekers nudist camp and the amphitheatre in Parkerville has been mentioned beforehand. Apparently Sunseekers is within a fairly secluded area, and has a membership. We’ll need someone to go inside and check out the camp – PCS you’ve been nominated for that task.

 

[Canning Vale]

It appears in this article that Police have ruled out an innocent explanation to Julie Cutler's disappearance, simply because her body did not wash up upon the beach?

http://thewest2.smedia.com.au/Olive...px?href=WAN/2008/12/05&id=Ar00700&sk=1889EBF6

Yet, that is exactly what they put to the Coroner at Robyn Santen's inquest.

It would appear that it is a logical fallacy to assume that the lack of a body in cases of disappearances at beaches determines whether foul play was involved or not.

There was mention of a telephone call after Julie Cutler's disappearance. I think we need to know a bit more about this.
Was it a verified report in MSM?
If so, is there some way to find out if it was a prank?

Someone on Bigfooty made mention of JC, being in Coober-peedy, which was odd. It seemed to be a fleeting comment.