Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[janwa]

What sports did married women play in 1988?

Badminton "nice pleated skirt"

 

[Guccigal]

Looks to me like her feet are cut off, and if there is a guy holding her, he seems to have lost his body. I'm wondering if it's the security staff or whoever is in charge of the cctv that have doctored this frame and wonder if there is any other vision from the ice box. The news report a day or two later was discussing the Club Bay View cctv, but not the Conti. Did they have to edit or make some of the images disappear and it took them longer to get their vision to the cops?

Cuccigal is it possible to describe how much cctv you were shown in time and sequences. Were the images from outside or inside the Conti and how clear were they?

Thanks Guccigal. There has only been one of two frames inside beside the stairs that's been released that I know of. Were you shown this as a video of just the still images of those one or two frames?

Could you see yourself or friends?

By Northbridge police station do you mean the Federal police building (its on Wellington St near Watertown now), or was it just a normal WA police station?

In 1996, could you turn right into BayView Tce from Stirling Hway (coming from the city)??

IMO since JR faces south wards down BayView Tce, I believe the person she's waiting for will be driving northwards on Bay View Tce.
Since she's standing on this verge and not on the opposite footpath.
Not sure how much we can surmise from this, but she obvioulsy must have felt 'safer' standing near bouncers.......

Hi, I don’t remember 100% but I think you could?

The taxi rank was on the opposite side of the street to where she was standing so either she wasn’t waiting for a taxi or as stated previously, felt more comfortable waiting there near bouncers.

 

[El Gordo]

I think you misread my post.

I never said bar and floor staff clean the floors and toilets. I said bar and floor staff, and by floor staff I suppose I should've said 'glassies' - the bar staff and glassies clean-up and and prepare the BAR for the next day. Meaning the glassies collect the last empty glasses, and wash them, and clean the final bits of drunk vomit from floors, and bar staff wash down and clean-up the bar area. The proper contract cleaners that did the floors and toilets arrived much later, usually around 6am.

Also, I never said staffies was 'related to' cleaning time?????
I said staffies started AFTER clean-up of the bar finished. I'm not sure where you worked, but any staffies I ever got invited to, NO ONE touched a staffie/free drink until ALL the bar and glassie clean-up had finished.

And obviously how many staffies and long it lasted for depended on the choices of management. It wasn't a free for all!

And yes 'liquor laws" were rather elastic and lax - hence why in my post I used 'bunny ears' to indicate this. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. IMO, Liquor and gaming wasn't as strict back in the late 90's.

Lastly, if you are/were a Claremont local, you would know that the local Claremont cops would regularly attend the pub back, both during open hours and after. All upon invitation from management.

No problem , we will have to agree to disagree

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

What sports did married women play in 1988?

all of the sports.
why?
where you going with this?

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

It may be that someone is editing a post that has been submitted initially. If you didn't see it initially it comes up earlier than you expected.

ok thanks - that makes sense

 

[TheSecondLaw]

Hi, the footage we were shown not long after at the police station in Northbridge was basically the same footage as the MM one released to the public with the footage inside the Conti (ground floor near stairs) and the waiting out the front part. However the tape was CLEAR and not grainy like we are seeing. I thought It was my phone but appears everyone is commenting on the resolution. Never shown any footage of the Clubba (club Bayview) or the back of the conti. I couldn’t in all honesty remember if any frames were missing!

Perhaps there is a better quality version of the CCTV footage that the public has not been privvy to. IMO there should be no reason why the video would be intentionally reduced in quality for public viewing; Most likely is that the copy/ies had simply degraded in quality in the 13 or so years that had transpired.

Has anyone seen re-runs of, for example, Star Trek TNG on free-to-air in recent years? Clearly they're using tapes or copies from what was used during the original TV run over a quarter of a century ago ...

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

DNA summary timeline...


1997 to 1998 - DNA collected from taxi drivers

2001 - National Criminal Investigation DNA Database (NCIDD) system established

?2008 or 2009 - LCN DNA confirmed on CG

[?2009 - general 'forensic link' made between KK and CG cases - not announced as DNA match]

?date -WAPOL obtain DNA sample from LW

?date - LW ruled out as POI as non-matching DNA sample

? 2015 - KK evidence retested with new forensic methods

?2015 - DNA Link made public between KK and CG DNA samples

2016 - HD/Kimono evidence retested with new forensic methods

2016 - HD/Kimono DNA link to KK and CG cases made public



FYI when link was first made between KK and CG, the link was called a 'FORENSIC LINK'.
Much later WAPOL admitted publicly the link was a DNA match. I'm trying to nail the exact time of this switch....
I'm wondering why WAPOL didn't admit to DNA first up?
What was their motive here?

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

16th Oct 2015 - police believe KK, SS, JR and CG crimes linked and sexually motivated


"The Post newspaper said police believe all four attacks are linked to the same man and the crimes were sexually motivated"

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...al-killer-ng-892372bf2e7886119c85f1860924685a

 

[Credulious]

Familial DNA is catching up on everyone. Is this person off the database also?

Kerry’s father John Turner said he and his wife Sue were confident advancements in technology and cold-case investigation would see justice done eventually.
“I’d be very worried if I were a perpetrator,” Mr Turner said.

“The technology is improving all the time; we find that very comforting.

“We feel confident that eventually there will be progress made.

“I hope they are sweating.
“There are people there whose relationships have changed. Maybe "they" no longer feel threatened.

“They might want to come forward and unburden themselves.

https://www.communitynews.com.au/gu...der-police-family-not-giving-catching-killer/


June 28th, 2016, 01:00AM Written by Greig Johnston
Title: Kerry Turner murder: police, family not giving up on catching a killer
*Kerry was just 18 on June 29, 1991. Maybe her birthday?

 

[Credulious]

Looks to me like her feet are cut off, and if there is a guy holding her, he seems to have lost his body. I'm wondering if it's the security staff or whoever is in charge of the cctv that have doctored this frame and wonder if there is any other vision from the ice box. The news report a day or two later was discussing the Club Bay View cctv, but not the Conti. Did they have to edit or make some of the images disappear and it took them longer to get their vision to the cops?

Cuccigal is it possible to describe how much cctv you were shown in time and sequences. Were the images from outside or inside the Conti and how clear were they?

BBM. Probably not, but it looks like photoshop

 

[lampformypath]

Have WAPOL retested evidence from KT's case?

https://www.communitynews.com.au/gu...der-police-family-not-giving-catching-killer/

One would hope during the 'retesting' of evidence process that WAPOL have prioritised unsolved murders and rapes, and other horrific cold cases.

AMEN to that! Let's hope they are really looking with "fresh eyes" at those unsolved murders and rapes. But like I said previously, the CSK may have changed his MO and methods/types of victims in order to stay under the radar. Frightening thought of just how many people he may have attacked and killed! I've been watching some interviews with psychopathic serial killers (not easy to do, and can only watch for a few minutes as just looking into these "creatures" eyes makes me feel physically sick, but to hear them just very casually recounting how they kill, and the fact that in all seriousness, they can't remember how many they have killed.

I was going to post this before and stopped myself, but I think this really demonstrates what we are dealing with. Hard to comprehend that a human being can be so depraved and have absolutely no remorse, even for small children and a tiny new born baby in one case. It's beyond evil. This one goes by the name of Tommy Lynn Sells, it's less than 10 minutes and contains an actual crime photo (which I thought was disgusting to do), but I have the utmost respect for all the police and detectives who work on these types of cases. I mean how would you ever get these things out of your head and have a normal life with your own family after you'd sat opposite this sick, revolting specimen??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V7EL-Yg8Gg

 

[lampformypath]

Badminton "nice pleated skirt"

Tennis was big too, and netball. Not a sporting person, tried Badminton and Tennis but was equally bad at both. I was really just target practise for whoever was over the other side of the net! Got hit so many times with the tennis ball and shuttlecock I felt like one of those ducks at a shooting gallery!

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

re: Police using civilians for information technology work


PhD Thesis: "Serial Crimes in Australia: Investigative Issues and Practice" by Natalie Scerra (2009)

...."Chan et al. (2001) also found that there was a shift in perceived status of the roleof operational police. One respondent in t heir research expressed the view thatoperational police were now supporting information technology analysts when “ theyshould really be supporting us ” (Chan, e t a l., 2001, p.99) . These issues of culturalconflict are further exacerbated by intra-cultural relations between police and civilianinformation technology workers. "......

 

[no name]

Spooks. Probably not very helpful to your timeline but interesting snippets nevertheless IMO.

25Nov08 Channel 9 reported that LW and his family had been told he was no longer a suspect. Police claimed they wanted to distance themselves from the report but had no comment.

Operation Supra 2013 - according to details in Warks judgement.
Reexamination of evidence for SCS with interesting rules that No one other than SCS was allowed to access the area including the people tasked with looking after the evidence room.

Found some comments regarding dates posted by Sutton based on discussions back at the beginning of 2016. Same time telstra guy discussion was in full swing.
Originally Posted by GreenDevil
Thread 4 #1079 23/3/16
Has there been any new developments?
It seems to me Police have been releasing old information with the pretense that it was a fresh break through, i.e forensic link.
I'm most interested in the Holden Commodore VS Series 1 (most likely white), new information. Has there been any more developments about that?

Response posted by Sutton
Thread 4 #1084 24/3/16
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12431497#post12431497
No new developments have been released.
Good point that info released in 2015 was not fresh.

Police Clues Released in 2015
Actual Year of Discovery in Italics
• Police have DNA from CG attack - possibly 1997, but no later than 2008
• Karrakatta connected by DNA 2008
• Fibers found on JR were traced to a white Holden Commodore, 1 Series, on the market after Jan. 1995 - 2008
• Police believe all victims were taken by blitz attack - probably 2008
• Clothes line (not telephone cable) was used to bind Karrakatta - possibly 1995 or 2008, but no later than 2011
• The rope used to bind Karrakatta was impregnated with screen printing ink - no later than 2011

 

[janwa]

My Theory

1988 Offender on the prowl in Huntingdale, sees the Kimono on a line and takes it because he likes it and thinks it will fit him.

With his knowledge from prowling the area he knows a young female lives in specific block of units.

He enters the unit and attempts rape but in his excitement prematurely ejaculates as the girl is screaming.

He wipes himself and in his haste to get out, drops the kimono.

Police investigate? The Kimono is bagged, tagged and ends up in evidence archives.

In 1995 a 17 yr old girl is dragged into Karrakatta cemetery and raped.

In 1996 the body of SS is deposited in the swampy bush land of Wellard or thereabouts.

Later that year in June the body of JR is deposited in the same area, by chance, due to unusually tall lilies growing at the spot, she was found in August.

In March 1997 CG disappeared Wellard was not safe now so the body of CG was deposited in bush land north of Perth at Eglington.

I can only surmise here that at some point there is a cold case review of unsolved sex crimes and the Kimono is tested and checked against the DNA data base.

It throws up matching profiles from other crimes but does not identify the perpetrator.

The task force try matching Familial DNA with no success until at some point there is a match leading to the arrest of the alleged perpetrator.

 

[Credulious]

My Theory

1988 Offender on the prowl in Huntingdale, sees the Kimono on a line and takes it because he likes it and thinks it will fit him.

With his knowledge from prowling the area he knows a young female lives in specific block of units.

He enters the unit and attempts rape but in his excitement prematurely ejaculates as the girl is screaming.

He wipes himself and in his haste to get out, drops the kimono.

Police investigate? The Kimono is bagged, tagged and ends up in evidence archives.

In 1995 a 17 yr old girl is dragged into Karrakatta cemetery and raped.

In 1996 the body of SS is deposited in the swampy bush land of Wellard or thereabouts.

Later that year in June the body of JR is deposited in the same area, by chance, due to unusually tall lilies growing at the spot, she was found in August.

In March 1997 CG disappeared Wellard was not safe now so the body of CG was deposited in bush land north of Perth at Eglington.

I can only surmise here that at some point there is a cold case review of unsolved sex crimes and the Kimono is tested and checked against the DNA data base.

It throws up matching profiles from other crimes but does not identify the perpetrator.

The task force try matching Familial DNA with no success until at some point there is a match leading to the arrest of the alleged perpetrator.

The article says ran from victims home ?

Her screams caused him to flee and police believe the stolen kimono was accidentally dropped by the man as he ran out of the home.http://www.news.com.au/national/cla...t/news-story/cdad7c5a6b825958b6d46cb11eb44c75
"As part of a continuing operation to retest old evidence with new technology, officers from the State Crime Operations team did DNA tests on the kimono."

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Media-Timelines-Photos-*NO-DISCUSSION*/page12

 

[janwa]

The article says ran from victims home ?

Her screams caused him to flee and police believe the stolen kimono was accidentally dropped by the man as he ran out of the home.http://www.news.com.au/national/cla...t/news-story/cdad7c5a6b825958b6d46cb11eb44c75
"As part of a continuing operation to retest old evidence with new technology, officers from the State Crime Operations team did DNA tests on the kimono."

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Media-Timelines-Photos-*NO-DISCUSSION*/page12

It's an encapsulated version of MY THEORY

 

[Molly Dooker]

My Theory

1988 Offender on the prowl in Huntingdale, sees the Kimono on a line and takes it because he likes it and thinks it will fit him.

With his knowledge from prowling the area he knows a young female lives in specific block of units.

He enters the unit and attempts rape but in his excitement prematurely ejaculates as the girl is screaming.

RSBM.

Block of units? I don’t remember it being referred to as a block of units before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Spooks. Probably not very helpful to your timeline but interesting snippets nevertheless IMO.

25Nov08 Channel 9 reported that LW and his family had been told he was no longer a suspect. Police claimed they wanted to distance themselves from the report but had no comment.

Operation Supra 2013 - according to details in Warks judgement.
Reexamination of evidence for SCS with interesting rules that No one other than SCS was allowed to access the area including the people tasked with looking after the evidence room.

Found some comments regarding dates posted by Sutton based on discussions back at the beginning of 2016. Same time telstra guy discussion was in full swing.
Originally Posted by GreenDevil
Thread 4 #1079 23/3/16
Has there been any new developments?
It seems to me Police have been releasing old information with the pretense that it was a fresh break through, i.e forensic link.
I'm most interested in the Holden Commodore VS Series 1 (most likely white), new information. Has there been any more developments about that?

Response posted by Sutton
Thread 4 #1084 24/3/16
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12431497#post12431497
No new developments have been released.
Good point that info released in 2015 was not fresh.

Police Clues Released in 2015
Actual Year of Discovery in Italics
• Police have DNA from CG attack - possibly 1997, but no later than 2008
• Karrakatta connected by DNA 2008
• Fibers found on JR were traced to a white Holden Commodore, 1 Series, on the market after Jan. 1995 - 2008
• Police believe all victims were taken by blitz attack - probably 2008
• Clothes line (not telephone cable) was used to bind Karrakatta - possibly 1995 or 2008, but no later than 2011
• The rope used to bind Karrakatta was impregnated with screen printing ink - no later than 2011

Excellent work noname. Very much appreciated Thank you

I will add to my list later .

The last bit about police clues released in 2015 - can I please have weblink? will save me looking
cheers

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Oh my Lord Spooks!! What's this bit about WAPOL picking up JR??? This is VERY strange and scary! How would these people get such explosive information, and why hasn't ANYONE picked this up before? I'm in shock, truly. But as my wise old Dad used to say, "believe half of what you hear (hearsay perhaps in this case) and ALL of what you see". So I'm taking some salt with my popcorn!!!

"What happened to Jane Rimmer from 12.30 am on Sunday the 9th of June, 1996 onwards ...
and
why did the Western Australian Police and the media deliberately lie
to the Western Australian Public for 20 years about the last sighting of Jane Rimmer,
which was at around 12.30 am on Sunday the 9th of June, 1996 hitchhiking on Stirling Highway near Loch Street, Claremont, Western Australia...
was it because as witnesses have stated according to USA media investigators, that some members of the Western Australian polie Service were involved in picking up Jane Rimmer on Sunday Morning on Stirling Highway ... and these police officers have not come forward to say what they did with Jane Rimmer after they picked up Jane Rimmer on Sunday Morning on Stirtl#ing Highway .... "​

YES! Now you understand the need for popcorn!
I think we can safely disregard this as false bogus baloney!