Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[janwa]

"He stabbed her to death at a small gathering in Huntingdale and was sentenced to life with a 14 year minimum.
Hart's 14 year minimum term was due to expire in mid 2015 - little did he know, detectives were re-investigating*the 1994 Bicton rape.
In 2015, officers and forensic scientists using new technology got a match for Hart's DNA on a small piece of blue fabric, extracted from the victim's underwear.
With this new evidence, Hart was charged in October 2015 with burglary and commit, two counts of aggravated sexual penetration without consent, two counts of attempted aggravated sexual penetration without consent and stealing."
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/m...ver-cold-case-perth-rape-20170609-gwo1ce.html

There is a new technology DNA testing that is to do with pubic hair. Apparently the main problem in the past has been that in most cases the perpetrators pubic hair didn't have roots as it was 'shedding' hair and partly degraded.

One element that doesn't degrade is bacteria.

Females have on average 76 sorts of bacteria and males 73.

The bacteria mix is like a microbial fingerprint maybe this is how Hart got nicked and KK and CG got linked.

Another reason for pursuing this line of research is that perpetrators have been outwitting police by being more forensically aware wearing condoms and taking them away to dispose of else wear etc.

 

[lampformypath]

Kimono pictures channel 9 news .

No link available

That damn kimono has got a lot to answer for! Who knows where it's been?? I'm so confused I didn't even think it was a kimono, looks like a dressing gown from a very cheap school production of Miss Saigon!

 

[lampformypath]

There is a new technology DNA testing that is to do with pubic hair. Apparently the main problem in the past has been that in most cases the perpetrators pubic hair didn't have roots as it was 'shedding' hair and partly degraded.

One element that doesn't degrade is bacteria.

Females have on average 76 sorts of bacteria and males 73.

The bacteria mix is like a microbial fingerprint maybe this is how Hart got nicked and KK and CG got linked.

Another reason for pursuing this line of research is that perpetrators have been outwitting police by being more forensically aware wearing condoms and taking them away to dispose of else wear etc.

Brilliant Janwa! How informative. I had no idea about any of this. You are a clever little possum. Thanks for posting this information. Learning so much on here. Keep up the excellent work!!

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

That damn kimono has got a lot to answer for! Who knows where it's been?? I'm so confused I didn't even think it was a kimono, looks like a dressing gown from a very cheap school production of Miss Saigon!

yes agreed - its NOT really a kimono!

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

2004 doco He Who Waits - transcript

https://web.archive.org/web/20170110212530/http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2003/s1042100.htm


DAVID CAPORN: We can't eliminate the possibility that there is another crime that's been committed that's linked to the Claremont crime, but there is no indication of any significance that we have had a linked one since Ciara Glennon's disappearance and, ultimately, her murder. Certainly, there have been times when the media have led the community to believe that we're only interested in one person. I can assure you that we've looked far and wide, and that as every year goes by, several people are looked at very closely.

DAVE BARCLAY – NATIONAL CRIME FACULTY: Most opportunities arise from lack of thought, not lack of technology. When you look at it, it isn't DNA that solves these crimes. It's basic reassessment of the crime scene by somebody else. Helps a lot.


CAPTION: W.A. Police say there have been 10 independent reviews of ‘MACRO’, including one in the UK and four in the USA. Later this year after the current forensic review, police will ask overseas experts to conduct another comprehensive review.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

HUGE PROBLEM! Private funding used to buffer police investigations could undermine the prosecution case!

Excerpt from transcript of "Courage of our Convictions"

Gerald Tooth: It's Terry O'Gorman's view that private funding has dangerously skewed the Claremont Serial Killer investigation through the use of policing methods that have the capacity to undermine some of the fundamental underpinnings of our judicial system, such as the presumption of innocence which must be afforded every individual up until the time they are found guilty of a crime by a jury of their peers.
He says private funding is a slippery slope that sees police beholden to their benefactors in more ways than one.
For example, in asking the Secure Community Foundation for funding for certain investigative tools, private citizens on the Foundation's board are made aware of details of the investigation, a situation Terry O'Gorman argues is untenable.

Terry O'Gorman: Now it's that sort of worrying implications for fairness in the criminal justice system that I see arising from private funding of criminal investigations. Of course, if we want to get a conviction at any cost, if we want to get a conviction notwithstanding the possibility of a miscarriage of justice, fine. But if we want a fair trial, if we want a balanced trial, then private community funding of police in particular investigations is a major worry.


http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ge-of-our-convictions---the-claremont/3473202

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

CSK Profile 2000

....on the Gold Coast at Bond University, Paul Wilson's colleague, criminologist Wayne Petherick, provides an insight into the FBI profiling philosophy.
He's reading from the FBI textbook definition of an organised killer, which closely reflects the profile details publicised by the West Australian police in the Claremont case.
Wayne Petherick: The determination of an organised crime scene is made based on the fact the offence is usually pre-planned, the victim is a targeted stranger, they tend to personalise the victim, they use controlled conversation, the crime scene reflects an overall theme of control or organisation; they demand a submissive victim, they use restraints, there's aggressive acts prior to death, the body is hidden, the weapon or evidence is absent and they usually transport the victim or body, so what that would imply is that there's usually a primary crime scene, followed up by some either secondary or peripheral crime scenes, or perhaps dump sites.
Gerald Tooth: And then what assumptions are made about what type of person would commit a crime like that?
Wayne Petherick: OK, well once the determination of the crime scene is made, generally they will go across to the offender characteristics. It would then be assumed that the offender has average to above-average intelligence, they are socially competent, they prefer skilled work, they're sexually competent, they have higher birth order, their father's work is stable though they had some inconsistent childhood discipline, they have a controlled mood during the crime, they may use alcohol or drugs with the crime, they usually operate according to some precipitating situational stress, so that could be a fight with a partner, loss of a job, loss of some money gambling, they generally live with a partner, they have a mobility, generally speaking a car that's kept in good condition, and they will follow the crime in the news and the media, and they may change jobs or leave town.


BBM

http://http://www.abc.net.au/radion...ge-of-our-convictions---the-claremont/3473202

 

[janwa]

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...ss-as-serial-killer-still-roams-free-1.149685
There was always a hint of DNA with CG. Why would an organisation set up after CG's death buy a DNA analyser if there was no DNA.
Quoted from the article above.
"Almost immediately afterwards the Secure Community Foundation was set up by Denis Glennon's colleagues to raise money for extra resources to help the police investigation. The funds paid for a DNA analyser to scan the oral swabs given by the hundreds interviewed after the murder."

The waiting list for general police DNA , Finger print, and hand writing analysis was so long it made sense for the foundation to buy one specifically for the CSK case which I beleave was later to be donated to the police.

 

[janwa]

Brilliant Janwa! How informative. I had no idea about any of this. You are a clever little possum. Thanks for posting this information. Learning so much on here. Keep up the excellent work!!

The next step for these creeps will be to shave off all their pubic hair.

 

[Credulious]

2004 doco He Who Waits - transcript

https://web.archive.org/web/20170110212530/http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2003/s1042100.htm


DAVID CAPORN: We can't eliminate the possibility that there is another crime that's been committed that's linked to the Claremont crime, but there is no indication of any significance that we have had a linked one since Ciara Glennon's disappearance and, ultimately, her murder. Certainly, there have been times when the media have led the community to believe that we're only interested in one person. I can assure you that we've looked far and wide, and that as every year goes by, several people are looked at very closely.

DAVE BARCLAY – NATIONAL CRIME FACULTY: Most opportunities arise from lack of thought, not lack of technology. When you look at it, it isn't DNA that solves these crimes. It's basic reassessment of the crime scene by somebody else. Helps a lot.

CAPTION: W.A. Police say there have been 10 independent reviews of ‘MACRO’, including one in the UK and four in the USA. Later this year after the current forensic review, police will ask overseas experts to conduct another comprehensive review.

Police were not very pro DNA analysis at the time.

They certainly did look far and wide. In fact they had searched all the males in the area, hundreds of taxi drivers.

Someone had been careful not to turn up on a database. In fact someone had been flat out careful with all aspects of the crime.

It helped to know where the cameras were. On fact we don't know what level of communications were used to sniff even on police.

No doubt policy and procedure of security will change all this now. Who installs security etc.

 

[janwa]

HUGE PROBLEM! Private funding used to buffer police investigations could undermine the prosecution case! excerpt from transcript of "Courage of our Convictions"
Gerald Tooth: It's Terry O'Gorman's view that private funding has dangerously skewed the Claremont Serial Killer investigation through the use of policing methods that have the capacity to undermine some of the fundamental underpinnings of our judicial system, such as the presumption of innocence which must be afforded every individual up until the time they are found guilty of a crime by a jury of their peers.
He says private funding is a slippery slope that sees police beholden to their benefactors in more ways than one.
For example, in asking the Secure Community Foundation for funding for certain investigative tools, private citizens on the Foundation's board are made aware of details of the investigation, a situation Terry O'Gorman argues is untenable.
Terry O'Gorman: Now it's that sort of worrying implications for fairness in the criminal justice system that I see arising from private funding of criminal investigations. Of course, if we want to get a conviction at any cost, if we want to get a conviction notwithstanding the possibility of a miscarriage of justice, fine. But if we want a fair trial, if we want a balanced trial, then private community funding of police in particular investigations is a major worry.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ge-of-our-convictions---the-claremont/3473202

And here you have it from the horses er mouth

Gerald Tooth: Why did you take DNA material from your prime suspect and from Perth cabdrivers if you had nothing to test against?David Caporn: I've never said we had nothing to test against, and I've also never said that we had. Look, I mean the bottom line is that we're not trying to be cute, the fact is that when we go down the path of investigating a serial crime we're not only dealing with crimes in the past, but the possibility of crimes in the future. When you're dealing with a serial case, it's a little different from a case where you've got a one hour investigation, it's a live happening thing, and you've not only got to prepare yourself for what's happening behind you, but what might happen in front of you.
Gerald Tooth: In other words, the West Australian Police, having obtained DNA profiles from those who volunteered samples for the purpose of clearing their names, are holding on to them for an entirely different purpose. That is, for identification in any future murder.

 

[Credulious]

Maybe I am missing something, but the DNA situation has always confused me, and this only adds to that confusion. (Not you, DRT, but the information).

If they had DNA from CG originally then why weren't they able to link it to KK straight away? Police dismissed any link to that even when profilers were interested, and didn't link the DNA until years later.

If they had DNA from CG originally, why was it considered a breakthrough when the body/artifacts were re-examined many years later and they found something they'd previously overlooked that they got DNA from? That breakthrough sounded to me like the first DNA they had?

BUT on the other hand

If they didn't have any DNA originally, why swab all the taxi drivers? I suppose it could have been for future purposes, but didn't they actually rule them out?

And now, this article add to that. If they didn't have DNA originally, why the need for a special analysis machine?

So did they have some DNA to begin with, but it didn't link to KK, and it was only when they found something else on CG that they got DNA that did? But how could that possibly work? Is there more than one person's DNA on CG?

Or was there DNA on JR that we never heard about? But then why didn't that link to KK as the DNA on CG does? If it doesn't link to KK, doesn't that suggests a different perpetrator?

Apologies if I am missing something obvious. If so, please do point it out. I'm either legitimately baffled or losing my marbles.

DNA tech was pretty low at that point (1997). Maybe they didn't have an entire footprint at that time of CG DNA?

Look at the kimono and the fact they tested with new technology.

The property room would be vast and underfunded at the time? Officers early in the rape investigation felt the crimes of CG and KK may have been connected.

As part of a continuing operation to retest old evidence with new technology, officers from the State Crime Operations team did DNA tests on the kimono.

Police claim the DNA samples came back as a match to samples already on the police database — samples that had been recovered from the body of the third Claremont victim, Ciara Glennon, and from a 17-year-old woman who was grabbed in a Claremont street in 1995 and then assaulted at the nearby Karrakatta cemetery.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cla...t/news-story/cdad7c5a6b825958b6d46cb11eb44c75

 

[Annalise]

My Theory

1988 Offender on the prowl in Huntingdale, sees the Kimono on a line and takes so it hides the clothing he's wearing at the time. The rape victim could recognize the clothes he's wearing. kinda like when people break into your house the will steal your socks off the line so they don't leave fingerprints. not cause they have a kinky sock fetish. ehe

Bliss - love your theory about offender wearing kimono to hide their clothes! Really love the part where this could be compared to WHEN people break into your house and steal your socks off the line so they don’t leave fingerprints😂🤣 Can you visualise a large man trying to break in but looking like a large crab with the socks on the hands and the lovely kimono on?😂😂😂😂😂

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Bliss - love your theory about offender wearing kimono to hide their clothes! Really love the part where this could be compared to WHEN people break into your house and steal your socks off the line so they don’t leave fingerprints[emoji23]🤣 Can you visualise a large man trying to break in but looking like a large crab with the socks on the hands and the lovely kimono on?[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

And perp borrowing victims pink fluffy slippers so he/she doesn't leave footprints or shoe prints! Lol [emoji23]


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Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Annalise]

who washes a dressing gown with a belt? gets tangled in the washing. :tantrum:

Bliss - you got me again🤣 dressing gown belt! I think they go the same mysterious place socks go in the wash! That’s if the washing machine isn’t broken from the belt wrapping itself around the workings of the machine. ROFL😆😂🤣

 

[Annalise]

And perp borrowing victims pink fluffy slippers so he/she doesn't leave footprints or shoe prints! Lol [emoji23]


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Spooks - pink fluffy slippers would set the ensemble off beautifully. Gorgeous! I’m visualising the perp getting really frustrated with the socks on the hands trying desperately to break in.😃

 

[Annalise]

....and thats a different cop than the cop pictured in newspaper pics.

More cop DNA on kimono - some lawyer better be good at arguing 'for' DNA practices in the 80's!!!

Spooks - MORE cop DNA on kimono - no gloves! That kimono itself should be facing charges with all the different DNA on it😀

 

[Annalise]

Admittedly research from 2011 Spooky One, but looks like if you're going to do something nasty it's a good idea to do it in WA!

Quote from article below BBM:

"Of the most serious crimes, dealt with by the District or High courts, WA handed down the most lenient sentences for sexual assault and related offences, robbery and extortion, break and enter, and theft.The state was only behind the ACT for sentences in relation to murder and related offences, acts intended to cause injury, and fraud and deception."​

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/w...t-sentences-in-nation-abs-20110627-1gnd7.html

Ah WA - Do the crime, and you won't do much time! Now there's a slogan for Tourism WA.

Lampformypath - WOW I can’t believe that article about WA criminals receiving the lightest sentences in the nation. What next - the perps do their time at the new Hilton in Perth. MOO

 

[Annalise]

There is a new technology DNA testing that is to do with pubic hair. Apparently the main problem in the past has been that in most cases the perpetrators pubic hair didn't have roots as it was 'shedding' hair and partly degraded.

One element that doesn't degrade is bacteria.

Females have on average 76 sorts of bacteria and males 73.

The bacteria mix is like a microbial fingerprint maybe this is how Hart got nicked and KK and CG got linked.

Another reason for pursuing this line of research is that perpetrators have been outwitting police by being more forensically aware wearing condoms and taking them away to dispose of else wear etc.

Janwa - 76 sorts of bacteria for females and 73 for males. I can’t help but think there might be a few more types of bacteria and other nasty things on a male perp. Yuck! 😳 The poor people testing the DNA! MOO

 

[MissUnderstood]

I’m eager to find out if the KK victim has identified BRE as her attacker.


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