Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #4

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Thanks for your mention, MyLeftFoot.

Statistically, the geographical concentration ratio of abduction area to disposal area is very high compared to a lot of other serial killers, and this doesn't need to take into account anything remarkable about the landscape of the Metro area of Perth. From a profiling perspective, the offender most likely did not live in Claremont or it's immediate surrounds. Therefore, we can either put Claremont into the "activity area" or "workplace area" category.

Claremont itself, was very much a commuter's area of Perth, especially during that period. The trip from the CBD to Fremantle or the other North-Western suburbs would see one almost definitely pass through the Claremont area.

Another interesting point is the the fact that the offender traveled south and then EAST with JR, but North and then WEST with CG.

Early geographical profiling assisted with circumstantial evidence being gathered on Lance Williams (SUSPECT).

Regards,

AIM2SOLVE

Re what you wrote: "Another interesting point is the the fact that the offender traveled south and then EAST with JR, but North and then WEST with CG."


That's how it appears after the fact, but we don't know that for a fact -- the killer may have accessed the disposal sites from any direction. Eg he may have lived south of the JR site, taken JR to his residence then to the disposal site. Same with CG - he may have lived north of her disposal site at the time she was taken to the disposal site. If the killer lived in a set location at the time of JR and CG murders ie adjacent to the ocean eg Cottesloe that would mean he had traveled north-west and south-east.

The Claremont area was also an area that young 'hip' people gravitated to in order to socialize. The scene in Fremantle at the time comprised of a heavy tourist base and left-over hippie and artistic types, Subiaco had a totally different 'vibe' to Claremont -- with a more settled population attending the nightlife spots. Claremont was the place to go to 'to be seen'.

Interesting (to me) is that when LW was interviewed by press and in particular the Allison Fan interview, and the snipped interview in the 2015 Sunday Night (Ferguson / Bayens) doco, he clearly indicated he was following girls in Claremont because of his 'concern for them after what had gone on for a few years'. He gave zero explanation as to why his compulsive driving loop included the street workers' area adjacent to Northbridge. No journo, as far as I have been able to find, has ever questioned him about that and the stalking of the Claremont prostitute back to her parent's house and from a press report that appears to have occurred in December 1995 which btw is when he moved into his own unit.

Hey Mordekai and Parkie - you have both said you were persons of interest (with regard to Claremont); and you both say that police have cleared you. Did they put this 'clearing' in writing ?

The only 'evidence' we have about LW being cleared, is the Postnewspaper's owner / editor's articles that morphed after the Terry Dobson (6PR) interview. The police via the CIA doco with WA police representative Byleveld saying police had 'started fresh'. This does not mean they had cleared anyone. We have to look very closely at the timeline relative to the new forensic work in the leadup to the airing of the doc, and the reviews they were doing at that time.; and I consider it shows that WA police started over with their forensics.

I think what has occurred is the press / media have made a quantum leap into the quagmire of the still 'unknown'; beating up public readership figures. Look at Postnewspaper's massive readership / circulation increases detailed on the front page of their online site. Circulation / readership increases like these mean more huge bucks in the bank for the owner of that newspaper. Same goes with all the other newspaper sites.

WA police would never come out publicly and announce a suspect, or persons of interest are cleared for a very valid reason; and that being that if they did so, and it was later to turn out the suspect or poi was (somehow) involved perhaps as an accomplice -- heads would roll from the bottom to the top.

Interesting to note that non of this week's press coverage has included the slightest hint about DNA, 1995 rape and CG link, or the clearing of the main suspect.
 
- BC says police had to sign confidentiality agreements in order to work on investigation

yeah, BC also said police have remained tight lipped ... so who tipped him off about the DNA link and the car fibers.....!

I think the JR fibre match came well before the 2008 documentary and that is why the police included the particular vehicle for the 1st time in that documentary; no mention of a vehicle prior to the documentary, to me shows that the witness sighting was 'poor quality' hence no prior mention.

One thing about the vehicle -- Toyota Lexcen were also Holden Commodore VS Series 1 but badged as Toyota Lexcen. In the Sunday Night doc, there is file footage showing what appears to be WA police forensic officers checking out LW's vehicle, and another file footage snip showing forensic officers examining another vehicle -- the hubcaps on that vehicle have Toyota's logo on them -- whereas LW's vehicle was (supposedly) a Hyundai !

I've come to the conclusion the DNA link morphed out of BC's contact with Dobson -- in that Dobson stated unequivocally during the 6PR interview that he (and other detectives) believed the 1995 rape was linked and then when you view that information with the linking by BC of that rape to CG via forensic evidence, somehow that information morphed into the link being DNA. I don't consider that DNA evidence is correct. If it was correct, WA police would be out this week thumping their chests and rattling the cage -- nothing but silence.

And also, people shouldn't get confused when discussing the supposed VS Commodore link - that is only linked to JR, not CG. We only have ONE witness (according to press reports) that observed CG actually communicating to an occupant of a station wagon. It could well be possible that a panelvan was also involved in the abduction of CG -- CG may have told the stationwagon driver she was ok, kept walking and then another vehicle showed up. It could well be the perpetator was parked at HJ's and observed her continue to walk after the station wagon left.
 
The only 'evidence' we have about LW being cleared, is the Postnewspaper's owner / editor's articles that morphed after the Terry Dobson (6PR) interview. The police via the CIA doco with WA police representative Byleveld saying police had 'started fresh'. This does not mean they had cleared anyone. We have to look very closely at the timeline relative to the new forensic work in the leadup to the airing of the doc, and the reviews they were doing at that time.; and I consider it shows that WA police started over with their forensics.

I think what has occurred is the press / media have made a quantum leap into the quagmire of the still 'unknown'; beating up public readership figures. Look at Postnewspaper's massive readership / circulation increases detailed on the front page of their online site. Circulation / readership increases like these mean more huge bucks in the bank for the owner of that newspaper. Same goes with all the other newspaper sites.

WA police would never come out publicly and announce a suspect, or persons of interest are cleared for a very valid reason; and that being that if they did so, and it was later to turn out the suspect or poi was (somehow) involved perhaps as an accomplice -- heads would roll from the bottom to the top.

Interesting to note that non of this week's press coverage has included the slightest hint about DNA, 1995 rape and CG link, or the clearing of the main suspect.
There is next to no chance BC is fabricating information in order to sell more advertising slots in his paper.

Either his information is correct or police are behind any misinformation.

The question needs to be asked; why the recent flurry of media info and what is the source?

Looks like most media outlets wanted to jump on the 20 year reunion. Did they just rehash Bret Christian's info knowing they had to offer something new up? Or are Macro now talking to them? Macro are publicly saying they are tight lipped. None of the articles reference a source, rather they talk as if its now common knowledge. If BC has a non-sanctioned source then i doubt he is now talking to all the other media outlets. If its a sanctioned leak then why risk being found out by talking to multiple people?

Publicly police are not confirming or denying which suggest it's a strategic police leak where they dont want the public to know it's them. Whether the info is true or not is anyone's guess.

One option is that police have been given a deadline before a coronial inquiry is started so police have offloaded info bit by bit so they don't get accused of hiding info. Cushion the blow so speak. On one maintain integrity that theykeep the case private but on the otherhand people not so upset as they feel they already had the info.

ps no idea why you insist on making comment about the local demographic given you didn't grow up there and not sure why you keep referring to a Claremont prostitute. Happy for you to post an article showing she either worked or lived in Claremont to prove me wrong. Whilst you're there just grab us that article about RZs operation that others have asked about.
 
If all taxi drivers were Dna tested and cleared why wasn't LW simply cleared with a Dna test?
This baffles me.


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If all taxi drivers were Dna tested and cleared why wasn't LW simply cleared with a Dna test?
This baffles me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i believe they did not have a DNA profile to match it to at that time(they may do now, some reports say the police do now have DNA evidence).

LW gave a DNA sample to macro, as did many taxi drivers, but the police probably had no DNA yet from the killer to match it to which is why they couldn't rule anyone out.

I think that the act of the taxi drivers and other poi's giving their dna sample willingly was showing macro that they had nothing to hide. If someone refused to give DNA that would probably have thrown suspicion on that taxi driver or other POI.
 
The only 'evidence' we have about LW being cleared, is the Postnewspaper's owner / editor's articles that morphed after the Terry Dobson (6PR) interview. The police via the CIA doco with WA police representative Byleveld saying police had 'started fresh'. This does not mean they had cleared anyone. We have to look very closely at the timeline relative to the new forensic work in the leadup to the airing of the doc, and the reviews they were doing at that time.; and I consider it shows that WA police started over with their forensics.

I think what has occurred is the press / media have made a quantum leap into the quagmire of the still 'unknown'; beating up public readership figures. Look at Postnewspaper's massive readership / circulation increases detailed on the front page of their online site. Circulation / readership increases like these mean more huge bucks in the bank for the owner of that newspaper. Same goes with all the other newspaper sites.

Nov 26 2008 - http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/claremont-serial-killings-suspect-cleared-20081126-6iui.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uspect-walk-free-focused-tying-man-crime.html

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/29843191/compo-call-for-cleared-claremont-killing-suspect/

cleared in 2008. There was a news clip on the Sunday night doco interviewing him in 2008 asking him how he felt now that he had been cleared. His family say they were informed by detectives that he was no longer a person of interest. This is the same method as Parkie and Mordekai by the sounds of it.
 
There is next to no chance BC is fabricating information in order to sell more advertising slots in his paper.

Either his information is correct or police are behind any misinformation.

The question needs to be asked; why the recent flurry of media info and what is the source?

Looks like most media outlets wanted to jump on the 20 year reunion. Did they just rehash Bret Christian's info knowing they had to offer something new up? Or are Macro now talking to them? Macro are publicly saying they are tight lipped. None of the articles reference a source, rather they talk as if its now common knowledge. If BC has a non-sanctioned source then i doubt he is now talking to all the other media outlets. If its a sanctioned leak then why risk being found out by talking to multiple people?

Publicly police are not confirming or denying which suggest it's a strategic police leak where they dont want the public to know it's them. Whether the info is true or not is anyone's guess.

One option is that police have been given a deadline before a coronial inquiry is started so police have offloaded info bit by bit so they don't get accused of hiding info. Cushion the blow so speak. On one maintain integrity that theykeep the case private but on the otherhand people not so upset as they feel they already had the info.

ps no idea why you insist on making comment about the local demographic given you didn't grow up there and not sure why you keep referring to a Claremont prostitute. Happy for you to post an article showing she either worked or lived in Claremont to prove me wrong. Whilst you're there just grab us that article about RZs operation that others have asked about.


not going to do that under any circumstances.

I DID grow up in adjacent area and my discussion about demographics is absolutely spot on.
 
That article contains a very clear photo which displays why forensic material collected at crime scenes can become contaminated -- no gloves !

This could be just a stock photo.
It's highly unlikely that it's a photo of the actual csk forensics team.


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There is next to no chance BC is fabricating information in order to sell more advertising slots in his paper.

Either his information is correct or police are behind any misinformation.

The question needs to be asked; why the recent flurry of media info and what is the source?

Looks like most media outlets wanted to jump on the 20 year reunion. Did they just rehash Bret Christian's info knowing they had to offer something new up? Or are Macro now talking to them? Macro are publicly saying they are tight lipped. None of the articles reference a source, rather they talk as if its now common knowledge. If BC has a non-sanctioned source then i doubt he is now talking to all the other media outlets. If its a sanctioned leak then why risk being found out by talking to multiple people?

Publicly police are not confirming or denying which suggest it's a strategic police leak where they dont want the public to know it's them. Whether the info is true or not is anyone's guess.

One option is that police have been given a deadline before a coronial inquiry is started so police have offloaded info bit by bit so they don't get accused of hiding info. Cushion the blow so speak. On one maintain integrity that theykeep the case private but on the otherhand people not so upset as they feel they already had the info.

ps no idea why you insist on making comment about the local demographic given you didn't grow up there and not sure why you keep referring to a Claremont prostitute. Happy for you to post an article showing she either worked or lived in Claremont to prove me wrong. Whilst you're there just grab us that article about RZs operation that others have asked about.

Yep here you go again -- I think I'll nickname you 'twister'. I in no way said that BC fabricated information; I used the word 'morph' which does not mean fabricate.
 
And also, people shouldn't get confused when discussing the supposed VS Commodore link - that is only linked to JR, not CG.

Nope. You're wrong.

For someone who collects so many articles it might be worth your while to actually read some of them.

Could cross-matching panel van and station wagon owners help police find the Claremont serial killer?
Police would not say – but a POST reader says it could be worth chasing.Earlier this month the POST re-vealed police know the killer drove a white mid-1990s Holden Commodore VS Series 1, most likely a station wagon, to abduct and murder at least two of his victims (“Two new clues to serial killer”, December 5).
 
Nope. You're wrong.

For someone who collects so many articles it might be worth your while to actually read some of them.

Could cross-matching panel van and station wagon owners help police find the Claremont serial killer?
Police would not say – but a POST reader says it could be worth chasing.Earlier this month the POST re-vealed police know the killer drove a white mid-1990s Holden Commodore VS Series 1, most likely a station wagon, to abduct and murder at least two of his victims (“Two new clues to serial killer”, December 5).

You're sounding more and more like Bart every day.

What I was indicating is that Postnewspaper's may have gotten the bull by the balls and did not check their details accurately -- perhaps the different fabric is not related to a Holden by Toyota manufactured by holden to the same specs as VS Commodore Series 1. Funny that the Toyota Lexcen / Holden partnership ended after the VS Commodore. And funny that the forensic photo in the Sunday Night show shows a Toyoto logo on the wheel hubs.
 
This could be just a stock photo.
It's highly unlikely that it's a photo of the actual csk forensics team.


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there are loads of photos out there that shows wa police forensics at JR and CG sites without gloves on whilst examining crime scene material
 
ya see. the yahoo article gives detail what they are able to obtain through DNA. But what if the killer was wearing a wig with human hair. what if the only dna they have is from the human hair from the wig
 
the below snip taken from today's yahoo article -- the Williams family were actually told that when covert surveillance - ie police parked over the road etc - was withdrawn -- it was not due to anything related to dna. press are jumping to conclusions

The scrutiny would continue for years until advances in DNA technology enabled police to finally rule out Mr Williams as a suspect some time before 2008 when he was told by investigators that they “would not be bothering him again”.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/w...lare-of-suspicion-burnt-several-innocent-men/


 
there are loads of photos out there that shows wa police forensics at JR and CG sites without gloves on whilst examining crime scene material

1. No gloves, no hair nets, no paper masks (which collect sweat)...at a CRIME SCENE?
2. Newspaper reports have generally been quoting their source as Post newspapers

Did anyone notice the small print on the Sunday Night program?

Why we didn't catch the Claremont killer
Reporter: Steve Pennells | Producers: Lisa Ryan, Debi Marshall
May 31, 2015, 8:45 pm

Macro better get a move along....There's a good team out there in competition!
 
Nov 26 2008 - http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/claremont-serial-killings-suspect-cleared-20081126-6iui.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uspect-walk-free-focused-tying-man-crime.html

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/29843191/compo-call-for-cleared-claremont-killing-suspect/

cleared in 2008. There was a news clip on the Sunday night doco interviewing him in 2008 asking him how he felt now that he had been cleared. His family say they were informed by detectives that he was no longer a person of interest. This is the same method as Parkie and Mordekai by the sounds of it.

In my case they informed me by phone when I rang up to check if my DNA sample had cleared me. I can't remember signing anything except maybe the consent to take a dna sample. I was happy to give blood, hair or whatever they needed to clear my name. I didn't receive a letter or anything official to say I was a POI or that I'd been cleared. I wonder if they checked all of us (the 50 or so) out for other unsolved crimes too once they had our dna ? I think not owning a vehicle at the time put me quite low on their list
 
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