Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #14

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Alternatively, they could be hidden within a telephone exchange. There would be lots of places to store small bits and pieces. When arrested he was probably on annual leave being the Christmas break, and didn't have time to clear up any loose ends. Over the holiday period he was probably looking forward to a nice relaxing break, but it didn't quite work out as planned!

Only IMO of course.

I think previous threads discussed possibility of SK trophies being hidden in telephone exchanges. Or even if the alleged crimes occurred in these exchanges.

IMO I doubt anyone that could stay undetected since 1995 would slip up and leave loose ends hanging around. But I could be wrong.


[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]





............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

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Curious if anyone is planning to go in and watch the trial, if it's allowed. Maybe someone could take notes each day and put up. Would be great to know what has been said. I wish they televised major trials like in the US, would be riveting.


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Join twitter and follow Court reporters like Courtney Bembridge etc. They usually live tweet the goings on.

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Early clues missed
Bret Christian
Post
December 31, 2016

Quote :
"Her attacker had handled her driver’s licence. A young girl who lived locally found it discarded in the park soon after the attack.
Some detectives investigating the Claremont murders believe the licence would have yielded the fingerprints and DNA of the attacker had they been able to preserve it early.
The girl who found the licence told her older sister but police were not informed at the time.
That abduction and sexual assault were investigated by the Claremont Criminal Investigation Branch and the Sex Assault Squad.
It was written off as unsolved after six weeks.
It was not until more than a year later that the Rowe Park incident was re-investigated, this time by the Macro Task force set up to investigate the disappearance of Sarah Spiers in January 1996 and Jane Rimmer in July the same year.
The Macro detectives did something that the Claremont CIB did not.
They door-knocked the houses surrounding Rowe Park and the victim’s driver’s licence was handed to them.
In the meantime, friends of the victim said she was distressed because she worried that her attacker may have kept her licence which contained her name and address.

But while some Macro officers thought there was an obvious link between the Rowe Park crime and the later abductions, senior Macro officers discounted any link.
They said repeatedly that it was a “different MO” [modus operandi]."

------------------------------------

"A second opportunity was missed when car upholstery samples recovered with adhesive tape from the body of Jane Rimmer were sent to the wrong department of the Chemistry Centre in 1996.

Macro assumed that the samples had been lost, although the Schramm external review said that the fibres were likely to (sic) vital clues if tested (POST December 11, 2004).

The samples were not found until the Chem Centre moved to Bentley in 2011. Tests then revealed breakthrough clues about a motor vehicle.

Another blunder concerned forensic examination of the body of Ciara Glennon, found at Eglinton north of Perth two weeks after she disappeared from Claremont in March of 1997.

A critical item from her body was overlooked at the time and not tested until years after the Schramm review in 2004, an international and interstate external review forced on local police after the broadcast of He Who Waits, an episode of the ABC’s Australian Story.

The item from Ciara Glennon was then taken to the United Kingdom for testing, these tests revealing the breakthrough clue.

Despite the Schramm review identifying numerous promising forensic opportunities, some reluctant senior police kept insisting that the Claremont murders were the work of the man they referred to as LKW—Lance Kenneth Williams." The Post news-story.
------------------------------------

WA today news-story.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...vestigate-1995-rape-lead-20151016-gkaq8i.html
Quoted :
"The Post*has reported police have forensic evidence*linking*Ciara Glennon's killer with *advertiser censored*rapist who*abducted a 17-year-old*woman from a Claremont street*then raped her in Karrakatta Cemetery in 1995.

The young woman had left Club Bay View shortly after midnight and was*walking to a friend's house when she was abducted, taken to the cemetery, raped and released,*The Post*reported.*

Sarah Spiers disappeared the following year and her body was never found. Jane*Rimmer*then Ms*Glennon disappeared in turn and their bodies were later found in Perth.

The Post*reported that police, who said at the time the Karrakatta attack was not linked, had now changed their view after finding a forensic link in 2009 and a 12-member squad was working on the case.

There was a "definite forensic link" found*between the rape*and the murder*of Ms*Glennon, editor*Bret*Christian told Radio 6PR on Friday.

"The young woman, the 17-year-old, she was walking to a friend's*place in*Gugeri*Street near the Claremont Showgrounds and she never made it," he said.*

"She made it as far as the Showgrounds subway and a man grabbed her, put something over her head,*tied her, up -*she said with telephone cable - and bundled her into the back of what she said was a commercial vehicle,*and drove*her deep into the cemetery, where she was sexually assaulted.

"She told police she didn't see the man, didn't have a description of him and was let go, with no clothes, and ran to Hollywood Hospital, which was on the other side of the cemetery.

"They now know that the person who committed that sexual assault is the Claremont serial killer and if they solve that earlier crime, they will have solved the other three."

"I understand they don't know [who it is yet] but they've looked damn hard and long and they've re-tested, re-interviewed literally thousands of people since they made that link and of course gone into databases and turned over every rock they can think of.

"When they began this cold case review in 2004 they announced they would be examining 16 disappearances of women so who knows how active and for how long this guy has been before this, or [how he]*escalated behaviour afterwards. And of course if they'd caught him at the time of the first sexual assault the rest would never have happened.

"I think they really thoroughly investigated it, but maybe with what is known today, or maybe if they'd thrown the resources into that that they'd thrown into the other three disappearances they may have come up with a different result at the time before everything went cold.

"When the Claremont series began we went to an FBI profiler in the states and put the four crimes to him and he said 'I would be looking thoroughly at that first sexual assault, because I think that's your bloke.'

"And we got criticised roundly and publicly for publishing this opinion which turns out to be right."

Perth lawyer Terry Dobson, once a detective who had worked on the Claremont cases, told Radio 6PR the revelation was not a surprise.

He said the Karrakatta matter was looked at "very early on" when a local Claremont detective, an experienced officer, had called in and nominated that crime as being worthy of following up. "A number of officers" had shared his opinion that Karrakatta was "the start of it".
"That wasn't unusual," he said.

"It was happening a lot, experienced detectives and officers nominating similar crimes and suspects."

In fairness, he said, investigative techniques were now different and police had much better technology and scientific knowledge to work with and it was just as well because this lead could be "incredibly important".

"I would be surprised if they weren't throwing the kitchen sink at this," he said.

"There are brand new investigators in ... [and] they won't rest until they solve this, or they certainly won't stop trying. They will never stop trying to solve this one."

On the relative lack of forensic evidence, he said it could be the case that the killer had gone beyond the stage of leaving evidence behind before his crimes escalated to murder.

"Often serial killers will start off with an interest in hurting animals, they like to light fires, they like to watch fires," he said.

"Usually there is some sort of deviant behaviour leading up to it before they get the attention of the police. It may be that whatever he did the relevant samples weren't taken prior to this. It could be that he's just left stuff at a crime scene as opposed to having it taken from him by investigators or in the alternative, he's from another jurisdiction in Australia," UnQuote.

Does any one know about the story of Sarah Spiers license being found , hidden in a car ?
Was claimed in a forum years ago
.
 
Gosh it's absolutely horrible to think that if WAPOL had door knocked in 1995 immediately after KK incident and found the victim's licence that may have produced the offender's fingerprints and DNA, WAPOL may have caught the alleged attacker BRE before he continued offending and allegedly raped and murdered three more innocent victims.

Geebus all mighty
I can't imagine how angry [emoji35] and thoroughly disappointed the victim's families must feel with this hind sight knowledge.

The woulda coulda shoulda's!!!

And what if's!!!

Enough to send anyone into a pit of anxious depression.


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

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Gosh it's absolutely horrible to think that if WAPOL had door knocked in 1995 immediately after KK incident and found the victim's licence that may have produced the offender's fingerprints and DNA, WAPOL may have caught the alleged attacker BRE before he continued offending and allegedly raped and murdered three more innocent victims.

Geebus all mighty
I can't imagine how angry [emoji35] and thoroughly disappointed the victim's families must feel with this hind sight knowledge.

The woulda coulda shoulda's!!!

And what if's!!!

Enough to send anyone into a pit of anxious depression.
............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.
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In September 1985 WAPOL could have visited the local High School (GOS) and made inquiries. During that time myself and a few others reported to the police that a teenager on a pushbike was performing grossly indecent acts, after school, near the Richard Rushton Community Centre, which is near the secluded southern river pathway. The teenager was tall, with an athletic build and had dark hair. BRE fits that description. If it wasn’t BRE, that means there were two people with the same characteristics.
These are only my opinion and thoughts.
 



In September 1985 WAPOL could have visited the local High School (GOS) and made inquiries. During that time myself and a few others reported to the police that a teenager on a pushbike was performing grossly indecent acts, after school, near the Richard Rushton Community Centre, which is near the secluded southern river pathway. The teenager was tall, with an athletic build and had dark hair. BRE fits that description. If it wasn’t BRE, that means there were two people with the same characteristics.
These are only my opinion and thoughts.

I imagine It was probably thought that the teenage students were lying and playing jokes on each other! You know how kids are! *insert sarcasm*


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

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SS licence in the car was an urban myth that circulated at least 3 times over many years. At least, thats the amount of times I heard it. Strangely, all 3 times I heard it from people I would usually have believed & who spoke of it being very close to them. Ie. My brother was the tow truck driver that picked up the car. My boyfriend was the mechanic that found it etc. The last occasion I heard it was about 2 years ago from a friend of my mothers, again, by someone very close to her. This time though was the first time I heard the type of car it supposedly was - low and behold, a yellow toyota. Go figure. Some creepy screwed up people with nothing better to do unfortunately.
 
I imagine It was probably thought that the teenage students were lying and playing jokes on each other! You know how kids are! *insert sarcasm*


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

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At the time, the police visited my home - arriving promptly after I phoned. One officer advised they were fairly keen to apprehend this particular teenager because his indecent behaviour would often lead to more serious crimes like rape. If, it was the pathway along the river he utilized, it would have been fairly difficult to apprehend him or catch him in the act. The school would have been able to provide likely candidates fitting his description - remember he has distinctive characteristics. He would have left school in Dec 1985 and worked the following year.

These are only my thoughts and opinion, and I am not stating it was BRE.
 
At the time, the police visited my home - arriving promptly after I phoned. One officer advised they were fairly keen to apprehend this particular teenager because his indecent behaviour would often lead to more serious crimes like rape. If, it was the pathway along the river he utilized, it would have been fairly difficult to apprehend him or catch him in the act. The school would have been able to provide likely candidates fitting his description - remember he has distinctive characteristics. He would have left school in Dec 1985 and worked the following year.

These are only my thoughts and opinion, and I am not stating it was BRE.


So you're saying in your knowledge WAPOL never approached the high school(s) in the area?


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

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We know the MM video that was released to the public had been cut to pieces. We also know the quality was no where near the actual quality of the video. WS members have stated the copy they saw at WAPOL was much better. It was released for other reasons. I could speculate but we'll never know. I dont think MM had anything to do with it. There was a post article that said MM walked down the street until out if view. They also said that JR exited the hotel shortly before midnight and stood by the lamp post for 10mins before disappearing. Why did we not see her exiting the hotel the 2nd time alone if some of the media saw it at least. Surely, if the video was actually released to glean info from the public, the whole video would have been shown and not the shoddy chopped up version that we saw. Another poster has said they saw the full version of the video and they were convinced JR got into a taxi. They said they saw the lights from a car pull up and a group of people step forward then step back as JR stepped forward, assumedly getting into the taxi. Who knows what happened. If she stepped off the footpath and walked away I think the only place she would have been taken from would have been the carpark behind the post office. Straight across the road, past the phone boxes and hidden from view by the row of bushes that separated it at the time. JMO
 
SS licence in the car was an urban myth that circulated at least 3 times over many years. At least, thats the amount of times I heard it. Strangely, all 3 times I heard it from people I would usually have believed & who spoke of it being very close to them. Ie. My brother was the tow truck driver that picked up the car. My boyfriend was the mechanic that found it etc. The last occasion I heard it was about 2 years ago from a friend of my mothers, again, by someone very close to her. This time though was the first time I heard the type of car it supposedly was - low and behold, a yellow toyota. Go figure. Some creepy screwed up people with nothing better to do unfortunately.

I heard a variation of that urban myth - this time it was Ciara's business card found lodged in car console that was later found when the air conditioner was getting serviced on the car!

Urban myths and rumours sometimes start in truth and get twisted like Chinese Whispers!

It will be interesting if upcoming court case reveals something similar. I hope the public gets to hear details of a trial.

However I'm surprised I haven't heard more rumours circulating about the alleged CSK now he's charged and awaiting his trial.


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

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Maybe the KK driver's license being lost during crime - real story - got morphed into SS driver's licence found in car - or CG's business card found in car - through all the Chinese whispers and gossiping ???


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
So you're saying in your knowledge WAPOL never approached the high school(s) in the area?
............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

If they did approach the high school they would have easily been able to locate a tall teenager, athletic build who had dark hair. I don't know if they did, but should have.
 
We know the MM video that was released to the public had been cut to pieces. We also know the quality was no where near the actual quality of the video. WS members have stated the copy they saw at WAPOL was much better. It was released for other reasons. I could speculate but we'll never know. I dont think MM had anything to do with it. There was a post article that said MM walked down the street until out if view. They also said that JR exited the hotel shortly before midnight and stood by the lamp post for 10mins before disappearing. Why did we not see her exiting the hotel the 2nd time alone if some of the media saw it at least. Surely, if the video was actually released to glean info from the public, the whole video would have been shown and not the shoddy chopped up version that we saw. Another poster has said they saw the full version of the video and they were convinced JR got into a taxi. They said they saw the lights from a car pull up and a group of people step forward then step back as JR stepped forward, assumedly getting into the taxi. Who knows what happened. If she stepped off the footpath and walked away I think the only place she would have been taken from would have been the carpark behind the post office. Straight across the road, past the phone boxes and hidden from view by the row of bushes that separated it at the time. JMO

I have said this before with quotes that there were sightings of JR near Stirling Highway which were suddenly forgotten once these videos were shown. I can't find the article at hand at the moment. Whether or not MM is the alleged murderer or not we will find out in the months/years to come.
 
I have said this before with quotes that there were sightings of JR near Stirling Highway which were suddenly forgotten once these videos were shown. I can't find the article at hand at the moment. Whether or not MM is the alleged murderer or not we will find out in the months/years to come.

DRT,
To be honest I don't want to wait that long.... :gaah:
 
These articles might be of interest
Relative to some of the current topics being discussed .

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/a...ves-over-claremont-footage-20080819-3xvp.html

3b2c107148f4e04c34fcf5cd5ffd9a5f.jpg


cfb2be06bc60045c462d86b9d6b8402c.jpg
7e141bf9f8609e8180451e2de5d8aab4.jpg
332da17b8f5b23edbf37c6cba713cab6.jpg
 
I have said this before with quotes that there were sightings of JR near Stirling Highway which were suddenly forgotten once these videos were shown. I can't find the article at hand at the moment. Whether or not MM is the alleged murderer or not we will find out in the months/years to come.

I think those sightings in the first few days after jr disappearance were discounted quickly as being false .
Thats why on the CiA documentary made many years later they said that the cctv video footage is the last known sighting of jr .
That was the belief of the websleuthers too , many years before the arrest of Bra from my memory
JMO
.
 
I have said this before with quotes that there were sightings of JR near Stirling Highway which were suddenly forgotten once these videos were shown. I can't find the article at hand at the moment. Whether or not MM is the alleged murderer or not we will find out in the months/years to come.

I havent forgotten about the 2 couples that were heading home from the yacht club who said they saw someone matching the appearance of Jane staggering down the highway near Loch St & they thought she was hitchhiking. It could have seen someone else though. Or Jane may have been walking trying to get a cab then headed down Loch St to try to get one from the Highway rather than going past the cemetery. I dont think she would have been staggering though if that were the case nor hitchhiking toward the city when she lived in Wembley. Without wanting to explain myself for saying it at all, Im 99% sure she wouldnt have been hitchhiking regardless. Or, as other members have posed, she may have been captured and drugged perhaps, then gotten away before being recaptured. As you said, we'll have to wait till a trial. I dont want to wait that long either CV, who knows when that will be if at all. I was just making the point that the video was a red herring IMO & I have also thought that the most likely place fir her to have been blitzed, if she was, was from the car park behind the post office. It was hidden and not well lit back from the street. There was not a walkway between shops then as far as I remember.
 
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