Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #8

[SouthAussie]

I have also wondered how ethical it is for Borce's lawyer to advise him on how to avoid police surveillance tactics, because it appears that is what he did (though he may not have, I guess).
I've been reading up on it a bit, and it seems lawyers have an ethical conduct code to adhere to. One that does not impede justice or the legal or court systems.

Presumably police would have had legal warrants, signed by a magistrate, to allow the installation of any listening or tracking or recording devices.
And I know that lawyers work for their clients, not the police, but still .... it seems a bit wrong somehow.


BBM

A police tracking device was removed or fell off Borce Ristevski's car in the months after his wife Karen disappeared, a source has claimed.
Detectives allegedly attached a tracking device to Mr Ristevski's car during the eight-month search for the missing Melbourne mother .....

Police suspect Mr Ristevski may have also been advised not to speak on the phone and was provided details on methods detectives use in homicide investigations, the source also claimed.

On Wednesday, Mr Stary said he had been advising his client since the investigation began.

'We've been advising him since day one really,' he told The Age.
'It's pretty clear police have him as their number one suspect.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ce-Karen-Ristevski-s-husband-Borce-s-car.html

 

[Armchair snoop]

I will stick my neck out for it to be chopped well aware i could be miles away from the truth.

Although,

I say three will be charged.

Under what grounds for each hard to say.

I'll take your three Unit and say two, one for the death and one for accessory after the fact.

 

[Armchair snoop]

In my experience....In the divorce process it is not mandated that everything is split 50/50. It is a 4 step process. 1. What each party brought to the table before getting together. 2. What each party contributed to the marriage during the marriage + length of marriage. 3. Children. 4. Future needs (of children/non working mother usually). Its work like a scale add some, take some and see what you end up with. Rarely is it 50/50.

One option available, if both parties can agree, is a 'Binding Financial Agreement'. Costs about $3000 and is a binding contract between the two parties, that is if they CAN agree. Better then a $30,000 divorce bill. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

One option available, if both parties can agree, is a 'Binding Financial Agreement'. Costs about $3000 and is a binding contract between the two parties, that is if they CAN agree. Better then a $30,000 divorce bill. IMO

But perhaps not better than murdering your spouse, in some people's eyes.

 

[tiddles24]

I'll take your three Unit and say two, one for the death and one for accessory after the fact.

BR for the death?....VR for accessory after the fact?..:thinking:

 

[Armchair snoop]

I think the property division thing has a lot of application in this situation.. I understand why the 50/50 business has gained traction with a lot of posters, but the unusual thing, in this marriage, was that that house, in Avondale, was put solely into Karen's name, presumably by Borce for a good reason.

No one does that on a whim.

Some reasons why he would do that. He owed Karen money , as a separate entity other than her being his wife. In lieu, he signed over the house to her sole ownership instead of cash, or similar value artifacts.. .

He signed it over to her, on the strength of her demand that he do so to prevent him borrowing on the equity of the property, perhaps he ventured into that and , as usual, failed badly. His lawyer probably, in that case would suggest it.

He signed it over because he didn't want to be found owning property in the event that creditors came looking for him to appropriate anything with his name in ownership on as payment for moneys owing, in other words, debt. And to maintain that façade of owning nothing that could be appropriated by a cranky lender, he kept the sole owner thingy going.

Should there have been a divorce, Borce would only have been entitled to any money he spent in maintaining the place.. did he paint it? have landscaping done? repaired a garage? he could get that money , or a proportion of it refunded.

Probably not but he did fix the fuel gauge on her car.

Bold by me

 

[SouthAussie]

Probably not but he did fix the fuel gauge on her car.

Bold by me

:laughing: Too funny, snoop!

 

[Specialk72]

Ok - so those of us that have been through it have no idea. Ok, I believe you even though I've done it twice - in Australia

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I'm in South Australia. My divorce went through in 2014. The 4 step process was used taking into account all your points. I got 34%. I think you will find what one brings to the marriage is taken into account in the first step. I know the Family Law Act very well. I represented myself for 4 years. I'm no lawyer, but know what I'm on about too. Cheers.

Yeah sleepinoz - I have no idea either!! Best we shut our mouths.

PS - this was in reply to the post further up.....not you sleepinoz.....silly computer.

 

[KG1]

Oh, that is very sad. And she had a little tyke, too. :cry:

Only 24 years old and she has just dropped her child to school before going missing. So terribly sad and such a waste of a human life, whatever the reasons.

 

[they'll get you]

And seems quite preoccupied with the thought that others may think that he had financial difficulties.

Business as usual....I've heard that before.

 

[they'll get you]

In my experience....In the divorce process it is not mandated that everything is split 50/50. It is a 4 step process. 1. What each party brought to the table before getting together. 2. What each party contributed to the marriage during the marriage + length of marriage. 3. Children. 4. Future needs (of children/non working mother usually). Its work like a scale add some, take some and see what you end up with. Rarely is it 50/50.

 

[Puggle]

Can anyone clarify if Karen's body was placed between the fork of a tree, or between two logs or "under a log" as some news sources have reported?
It is hard to imagine that tree trunks of that size could be moved by one person.


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Most of the reports I've read say the remains were jammed under a log.

Given it was a fallen tree with a fork in it .... it has me thinking simply pushed up against one of those branches.

The area being so close to houses with obvious travelled dirt (if not well used) but travelled dirt roads none the less ....... makes me think this was a real rushed placement of her remains.

 

[Puggle]

(snipped)

Especially if, as has been speculated, it was done in the dark.

Dean came across two men who resembled Borce and Vasko .... with a bogged white truck ...

Then a further report by a neighbour close to the area ......said she saw an unoccupied white truck on Loch Road during the Middle of the day.

 

[Puggle]

Just curious ...... so do most think their Marriage was in trouble?

On what basis if you do? ....The stepsons claims? ...... the Age reported finacial problems that Borce heavily disputed?

 

[Didi1201]

I have also wondered how ethical it is for Borce's lawyer to advise him on how to avoid police surveillance tactics, because it appears that is what he did (though he may not have, I guess).
I've been reading up on it a bit, and it seems lawyers have an ethical conduct code to adhere to. One that does not impede justice or the legal or court systems.

Presumably police would have had legal warrants, signed by a magistrate, to allow the installation of any listening or tracking or recording devices.
And I know that lawyers work for their clients, not the police, but still .... it seems a bit wrong somehow.


BBM

'Police suspect Mr Ristevski may have also been advised not to speak on the phone and was provided details on methods detectives use in homicide investigations, the source also claimed.'


Well, for detectives to be able to install any kind of surveillance/tracking devices they would need warant from judge or magistrate, once they have warant they need to go to persons house and give copy of the warant to person they wanna surveil or track and then go ahead with installation....that is my understanding of how it works in Victoria, somebody correct me as i didnt read whole act in regards to this, skimmed through it [emoji3]
So in a way he would already know that he is under surveillance?



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[Amalgam]

'Police suspect Mr Ristevski may have also been advised not to speak on the phone and was provided details on methods detectives use in homicide investigations, the source also claimed.'


Well, for detectives to be able to install any kind of surveillance/tracking devices they would need warant from judge or magistrate, once they have warant they need to go to persons house and give copy of the warant to person they wanna surveil or track and then go ahead with installation....that is my understanding of how it works in Victoria, somebody correct me as i didnt read whole act in regards to this, skimmed through it [emoji3]
So in a way he would already know that he is under surveillance?

Police do need a warrant for tracking devices, listening devices and wiretaps(phone bugs).

They do not need to show this warrant to the party subject to surveillance (until any evidence collected this way is used for court proceedings) - the surveillance is covert & the surveillance devices are deployed covertly.

A search warrant is usually presented to the person being subjected to the search, but under certain circumstances even covert search warrants can be issued & executed covertly.

Criminals know this, and any savvy professional crook will operate under the assumption that they are under surveillance at all times. It seems somebody has advised Borce to operate under these assumptions & possibly given him further advice regarding homicide squad evidence gathering methodology.

I don't know whether it would be legal for a lawyer to advise a client in this manner, but perhaps the lawyer could argue that they were helping their client to exercise their right to avoid incriminating themselves.

You can be sure that Mr Stary would not risk his license to practice law just to help Borce, so if he has helped Borce in this manner, then you can he sure he has his *advertiser censored* well covered.

Seasoned criminals and their associates are quite knowledgable about police practices, too, so perhaps Borce was 'educated' by somebody other than his lawyer.

 

[Didi1201]

I m sure nothing wrong with his lawyer advizing him about detectives spying tactics, he didn't advize him to do anything thats illegal. After all, br is paying big bucks to mr Stary so might as well pick his brain and learn as much as possible instead of searching the net.

Ok, so cops can do it covertly without telling surveillanced person about it.
Hypothetically, BR got hidden cam installed everywhere in his place and he catches some people installing some stuff around house, garage, car...
What does he do, pretend he didn't see it n be a good boy or just go to cops to report break in and what do cops say? At that point police have to tell him truth, right?

What bugs me is the fact they still didn't lay charges, means so far LE does not think they have sufficient amount of evidence to prosecute him, i doubt br will make any mistake from now on that will provide them with enough juice to charge him as he operates under assumption that he is being wathed 24 7,

Unless they waiting for funeral but that is risky, he could decide that he needs to relax and go on holiday in South America in meantime without breaking a single law.







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[Puggle]

I've mentioned a few times the fact that a little slip in on msm articles has been the mention that Borce had sort loans on 2 occassions from a notorious melbourne loan shark.

Anyone thinking this maybe related?

There was a possible connection made back in the earlier threads of a possible connection between VR and a man who was involved (business) with some not so nice people. The circles this person associated with included what we typically call gangsters or melbourne underworld figures.


Is there any chance by association ..... loans were taken out and not repayed ....

Autopsy ...... no outward signs..

A medical condition causing death: Asthma?

Just some random thoughts.

 

[Didi1201]

I've mentioned a few times the fact that a little slip in on msm articles has been the mention that Borce had sort loans on 2 occassions from a notorious melbourne loan shark.

Anyone thinking this maybe related?

There was a possible connection made back in the earlier threads of a possible connection between VR and a man who was involved (business) with some not so nice people. The circles this person associated with included what we typically call gangsters or melbourne underworld figures.


Is there any chance by association ..... loans were taken out and not repayed ....

Autopsy ...... no outward signs..

A medical condition causing death: Asthma?

Just some random thoughts.

Loan shark theory, I have heard some people speculating about that one.
I have tried to decipher BR facial expressions and it seems like he 'knows' what happened but is really affraid to speak for the sake of rest of famiily, SR in particular.

You dont mess with these people, if you owe them money they ll make you vanish.

Plausible theory considering all businesses and industries r family is conected to. If thats the case, br is doing well, keep your mouth shut, from now on its all damage control
name no names, dont tell tales


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[moreinfo]

I have been thinking more about AR and those toxic FB posts on 29/6/16 from 4.30am.

It was actually his girlfriend who suggested that he should bring up the "stuff that happened with Karen" and direct his anger towards Karen and Borce instead of her.

A lot of rage AR was carrying at the time of Karen's disappearance was because his girlfriend had just left him....he has 2 children from that relationship, so he also had that to cope with....all this happening at the same time (just all become too much, causing him to reach for more and more "ice".....I am not trying to make excuses for him or his behaviour, but it didn't help matters.

I've been going through some old posts from the previous threads here to jog my memory on things that I may have forgotten....in doing so, I also realised that he didn't even meet his father Borce until he was a teenager....after an abusive childhood with his mother that was mentioned on Thread 4....I also kept some notes from his FB page before all those posts were deleted...MOO

The relationship he had left from was not the mother of his children , it was his girlfriend Tracey that he spoke about.